Talk:Reed College: Difference between revisions

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:You are welcome to take your concerns regarding the lack of relevant detail at other colleges to the respective talk pages; indeed, I encourage you to do so. But this section is long-settled. Is this your only account here? I ask because I want to be certain you understand Wikipedia policies and procedures. Many thanks. <font color="green">[[User:IronDuke|IronDuke]]</font> 23:25, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
:You are welcome to take your concerns regarding the lack of relevant detail at other colleges to the respective talk pages; indeed, I encourage you to do so. But this section is long-settled. Is this your only account here? I ask because I want to be certain you understand Wikipedia policies and procedures. Many thanks. <font color="green">[[User:IronDuke|IronDuke]]</font> 23:25, 2 August 2016 (UTC)


How is this section 'settled' if there is continuing opposition its inclusion on the Reed page? People have questioned it since 2011, if not before, according to the record here on the 'talk' page. In fact, the problem has never been 'settled.' The section contains news reporting -- not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry -- on two drug deaths that occurred approximately 6 to 8 years ago. So no: this section is not long-settled and needs to be removed. The voicing of the section belies its intention: a campus attitude of 'permissiveness' appears to lead to overdoses, in the way the section is written. (Consider: it may be the case that Reed's culture actually reduces harms from drugs on campus. But this kind of observation or argument is foreclosed by the way the section is composed.) Moreover, as has been noted above, the discrepancy between the inclusion of this section on the Reed page and the absence of comparable sections at other college and university articles serves to illustrate that its inclusion here is meant to bias impressions of the college. Moreover, the section continues to rely on news reports that are now in fact quite old. The section should be removed so that the page is in line with peer colleges & universities (e.g., Wesleyan, UCSC). <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/37.228.200.174|37.228.200.174]] ([[User talk:37.228.200.174|talk]]) 11:20, 5 August 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::How is this section 'settled' if there is continuing opposition its inclusion on the Reed page? People have questioned it since 2011, if not before, according to the record here on the 'talk' page. In fact, the problem has never been 'settled.' The section contains news reporting -- not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry -- on two drug deaths that occurred approximately 6 to 8 years ago. So no: this section is not long-settled and needs to be removed. The voicing of the section belies its intention: a campus attitude of 'permissiveness' appears to lead to overdoses, in the way the section is written. (Consider: it may be the case that Reed's culture actually reduces harms from drugs on campus. But this kind of observation or argument is foreclosed by the way the section is composed.) Moreover, as has been noted above, the discrepancy between the inclusion of this section on the Reed page and the absence of comparable sections at other college and university articles serves to illustrate that its inclusion here is meant to bias impressions of the college. Moreover, the section continues to rely on news reports that are now in fact quite old. The section should be removed so that the page is in line with peer colleges & universities (e.g., Wesleyan, UCSC). <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/37.228.200.174|37.228.200.174]] ([[User talk:37.228.200.174|talk]]) 11:20, 5 August 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::Who is it that opposes its presence? The only person I can think of is a long-ago banned persistent sock-puppeteer who went by the handle [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Gnetwerker gnetwerker], among many other aliases. But certainly, if any editors in good standing wish to update the section, I would have no objection. However, its wholesale deletion (by this same sock-puppeteer) has been reverted by a fair number of editors over the years. That is as settled as Wikipedia gets. <font color="green">[[User:IronDuke|IronDuke]]</font> 23:35, 16 August 2016 (UTC)


== Source for expansion of history sections ==
== Source for expansion of history sections ==

Revision as of 23:35, 16 August 2016

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More drug deaths

So 64.134.25.18 just added back in two paragraphs about the 2008 and 2010 drug deaths that were removed by Mindbunny last December as unencyclopedic. Rather than a quiet edit war, perhaps a discussion of whether this info should be included is in order. The previous discussion doesn't look like a clear consensus emerged. blahaccountblah (talk) 16:20, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mindbunny is right. News reporting in this article is not appropriate. I deleted the offending sections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.7.115.54 (talk) 19:08, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it'd be best if you logged in with your main account, unless this is your only, single-purpose account. IronDuke 03:58, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and it may interest you to know that Mindbunny was banned. If you are not personally familiar with being banned, I can provide more explanation. IronDuke 03:59, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The "drug use" section is silly. Heavy drinking and recreational drugs are a typical part of American college life. It's certainly not peculiar to Reed. In fact, when I was there Lewis and Clarke students were significantly worse, because they spend less time studying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:DA8:D800:107:A12D:E3A:1F3A:6F12 (talk) 10:58, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have deleted the "drug use" section, concuring with the observation above. Forms of 'substance abuse' (from binge drinking to marijuana to hard drugs) occur on every campus in the US. *All* colleges are known to be (have a 'reputation' for) places where partying occurs. What makes the inclusion of this section in the Reed article distinctive is its clear intention to bias impressions of Reed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.203.230.181 (talk) 08:19, 24 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For example, the 'Daily Beast' in 2010 attempted to rank US colleges according to drug use, yielding a list of the 50 'Druggiest Colleges.' It should be noted that Reed College did not make this list. Williams College did however -- and there is no 'Drug Use' section in the Williams College wikipedia article -- even though, if the Daily Beast is to be believed, it has a 'reputation' as one of the top 10 'druggy' colleges in the country. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/12/13/the-50-druggiest-colleges-from-west-virginia-to-williams.html

Relevance: While the above article is relevant to the discussion going on here on the talk page, it does not seem relevant to an encyclopedia article about Reed College, since the Daily Beast did not rank Reed. Therefore, I believe the last edit to the article should be reverted, and I'll go ahead and do that if there is no objection here.--Thelema12 (talk) 20:07, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the Drug Use section is not making a distinction between contemporary and historical drug use at Reed. Campus life is much more tame these days, but the reputation of the school is based on the Reed drug culture of the 60's up through the neo-nannying hooraw of the 90's. I can personally attest that use of hallucinogens at Reed in the 80's was way more prevalent than at Swarthmore or Williams, just to name two of our peer schools. Way more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wabobo3 (talk • contribs) 01:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So 149.157.1.188 just blanked the whole section. My initial instinct is to restore it, just because blanking the entire section seems a bit drastic. Thoughts? --Thelema12 (talk) 20:32, 3 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The continue presence of the 'drugs use' section on the Reed article raises the question why other college & university Wikipedia articles do not also include sections on 'drug use' -- despite the fact that ALL colleges and universities in the US have a 'reputation' for drug use. May 2016: "Four fatal drug overdoses, two large scale Ecstasy busts and an increase in 'marijuana induced psychosis' from high potency pot in the past year have prompted UC Santa Cruz leaders to heighten their warnings to students about drugs" -- yet there is no section reporting these deaths for UC Santa Cruz on Wikipedia and no section on UCSC's putative 'reputation' for drug use. February 2015: "11 MDMA overdoses that occurred at Connecticut’s Wesleyan University campus over the weekend." This was actually a major national news story. So where is the section on 'drug use' for Wesleyan? The inclusion of this section here treats Reed differently than other colleges & universities despite widespread reporting on drugs (and alcohol abuse) on college campuses nationwide and is plainly meant to promote a particular (implicitly damaging) picture of Reed vis-a-vis peer institutions. It needs to be removed in its entirety. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.228.200.174 (talk) 22:27, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See for example the page below, which presents information from the Office of Postsecondary Education on campus drug use. There is a specific graphical image that says: "SUNY New Paltz gained its reputation as a 'drug school' decades ago..." Again I ask: Where is the section on for this reputation on SUNY New Paltz's Wikipedia page? Scroll down, the 2014 Drugs on Campus report suggest that UCSC has the HIGHEST rate of disciplinary actions for campus drugs use *in the country.* (Note further that Reed is not listed anywhere.) Yet, there is no section on Wikipedia reporting this 'reputation' -- despite its emphasis in a federal report, and despite the fact that in 2016 of this year there were four fatal drug overdoses on the UCSC campus. To be clear, I am NOT arguing that these universities merit a section that disparages their reputations as 'druggie campuses.' Rather, I am suggesting that for Reed's page to include this section when other universities do not would unfairly bias impressions of Reed. As a result, I have deleted the inappropriate section. http://www.projectknow.com/discover/drugs-on-campus-2014/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.228.200.174 (talk) 23:02, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to take your concerns regarding the lack of relevant detail at other colleges to the respective talk pages; indeed, I encourage you to do so. But this section is long-settled. Is this your only account here? I ask because I want to be certain you understand Wikipedia policies and procedures. Many thanks. IronDuke 23:25, 2 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How is this section 'settled' if there is continuing opposition its inclusion on the Reed page? People have questioned it since 2011, if not before, according to the record here on the 'talk' page. In fact, the problem has never been 'settled.' The section contains news reporting -- not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry -- on two drug deaths that occurred approximately 6 to 8 years ago. So no: this section is not long-settled and needs to be removed. The voicing of the section belies its intention: a campus attitude of 'permissiveness' appears to lead to overdoses, in the way the section is written. (Consider: it may be the case that Reed's culture actually reduces harms from drugs on campus. But this kind of observation or argument is foreclosed by the way the section is composed.) Moreover, as has been noted above, the discrepancy between the inclusion of this section on the Reed page and the absence of comparable sections at other college and university articles serves to illustrate that its inclusion here is meant to bias impressions of the college. Moreover, the section continues to rely on news reports that are now in fact quite old. The section should be removed so that the page is in line with peer colleges & universities (e.g., Wesleyan, UCSC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.228.200.174 (talk) 11:20, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Who is it that opposes its presence? The only person I can think of is a long-ago banned persistent sock-puppeteer who went by the handle gnetwerker, among many other aliases. But certainly, if any editors in good standing wish to update the section, I would have no objection. However, its wholesale deletion (by this same sock-puppeteer) has been reverted by a fair number of editors over the years. That is as settled as Wikipedia gets. IronDuke 23:35, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Source for expansion of history sections

http://books.google.com/books?id=uWUUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA612#v=onepage&q&f=false -Pete (talk) 18:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV on rankings section?

The "Rankings" section only gives Reed College's view of the validity of the US News rankings. Furthermore, the section omits the US News ranking for Reed despite the fact that this is a common practice for college/university articles (regardless of Reed College's particular views on how fair it thinks its own rankings are). Overall, the section has an obvious bias in favor of Reed College's view on the issue; the ranking should definitely be included, and the other side of the conflict should be fairly represented if we're going to include Reed College's argument in this section.<And U.S. News and World Report publishes unbiased rankings? Hahaha> 69.123.226.62 (talk) 03:59, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Though the rankings are bullshit, you're unfortunately right—that is, until the rest of the universe accepts the same position as Reed and we can at last do away with giving undue attention to the irrational for the sake of fairness. I'll add a sentence like, "US News and World Report maintains that rankings are determined blah blah to help students make the best choice blah." Karmos (talk) 06:47, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There. Done. Karmos (talk) 07:07, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The original rejection of the U.S. News rankings by Reed dates to Paul Bragdon's tenure as college president in the 1980's. At that time, Reed was virtually the only college of note to reject the rankings and to refuse to cooperate with the ranking process. Because of the historicity of Reed's stand, some note of its unique role is warranted.

Wabobo3 (talk) 01:23, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mascot?

The text says, "The official mascot of Reed is the griffin.", a griffin is depicted at the top of the info sidebar, with 'Unofficial Mascot' below it. I do not know which is correct, but one of these should be corrected to match the other. --Thespian (talk) 08:18, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The griffin displayed is used officially by the college but is not the official college seal. That's probably where the root of the confusion lies. Karmos (talk) 06:50, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Recent classroom banning controversy

An unregistered editor is edit warring with multiple editors to insert into this article information about a recent event that has hit the news. The details of this event are not clear - which is often the case with breaking news and one reason why we discourage adding recent news to encyclopedia articles - but they center on a student who was banned from the discussion section of a class and the circumstances surrounding that ban. A full paragraph devoted to an unclear, recent incident sourced primarily from news articles and partisan sources is way over the line given how new and unclear the information about this incident and the fact that so far it's just a he-said-he-said exchange between two people. Of course, should this become more clear and evolve into something larger then we should reevaluate our position.

In any case, edit warring with other editors over a simple content dispute is unacceptable and must stop. ElKevbo (talk) 01:07, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the paragraph for now per WP:RECENT and WP:DUE. The event might be worth noting in the article if better sources can be provided. P. S. Burton (talk) 18:08, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've followed this issue pretty closely. I do not think it is now a significant enough issue to be put in the article, and I doubt it will become significant enough. The reason it because broadly visible was because of sensationalized news coverage. I think it's unlikely that a serious (i.e., not Buzzfeed) and independent (i.e., not the Quest) would put serious attention on a story like this. I'm also not sure there is a compelling reason to participate in making this event one of the better-known incidents in the lives of a the non-notable individuals involved in the case. (Disclosure, if relevant..I'm a Reed alum. I don't think this influences my opinion on this.) -Pete (talk) 18:20, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I've blocked an IP and an account related to this, and turned on Pending Changes. -Pete (talk) 12:16, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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External links modified

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