Talk:SVG

Windows MetaFile (WMF) Versus Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG)

How-about some writing a comparison between these two formats -- the new standard trying to become dominant for scalable, vector images on webpages, and the existing Microsoft standard for ClipArt pictures. Which is better, for example. Color differences. Compression differences.

Well, one advantage of SVG is it is text XML, which pretty much all web developers already have the tools to output (they do it all day using HTML/XHTML) and CSS. Relatively easy to generate from scripts using already familiar tools such as PHP.

For compression differences, it would be a good idea to compress the SVG using gzip, since any web content is deliverable that way if the Content-Encoding header is set. WikianJim 08:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

SVG?

I got here while looking for information on SVG images after finding that my browser (Fire Fox 1.0.7) will not open them. When I click on a thumbnail for a higher resolution SVG image I get an "Open this image with AcroRd32.exe" dialog which reappears every time I click OK. My point being should not Wikipeadia be accessible by everyone without having to download new plugins or fiddle with settings? In particular this should be true for fundamental things like images. Is it not premature to adopt a new image format until the vast majority of browsers can access it straight out of the box? I feel Wikipeadia should be what it is, an Encyclopaedia, not an experimental proving ground for new technology.

All images in Wikipedia are rendered to browsers as PNGs or JPEGs for this very reason, even if the source of that image is actually an SVG one. You should be able to right-click on any image you can SEE in your browser and save the image as PNG. On the other hand, if you want the scalable image (which has infinite resolution), the SVG link is provided. On another note, I suggest you upgrade to the most recent version of Firefox (Firefox 1.5, released Nov 2005) which does support SVG, as does Opera (Opera 9 since June 2005), Konqueror (with KSVG plugin) and an upcoming version of Safari will support it out of the box (nightly builds already do). The only major browser with no built-in SVG support will soon be Internet Explorer, but you can download the Adobe plugin as you've already discovered. Jeff schiller 11:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I think you missed the point. It should not be necessary to upgrade the browser or save an image before being able to view it. As the original comment said things in Wikipeadia should work with the majority of browsers out of the box. Firefox 1.0.7 is hardly an uncommon browser even if it is not the very latest version. There must be many currently used browsers that do not handle SVG images yet, so the use of such images in Wikipeadia would appear to be somewhat premature. Surely accessibility is much more important than the latest fashion in image formats.

I think you have missed the point. Wikipedia provides raster images for viewing by default (meaning EVERYONE can see the images). Everyone can also download the raster images by right-clicking and choosing Save Image As. This means anybody can see and download these images by right-clicking on them and saving them. However, if you have an SVG-capable browser, you can also download the SVG files and get the infinite resolution image (which is a feature of the SVG image). So the best of both worlds - what more do you want? Jeff schiller 00:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The point is you should not need an "SVG-capable browser" to be able to access all of Wikipedia's images. Low tech GIFs and low compression JPEGs are adequate for all practical purposes. "Infinite resolution" is not a requirement for conveying useful information. "EVERYONE" cannot "see the images". Download yourself a copy of Firfox 1.0.7, open Fielding (cricket) click on the image and attempt to view the high resolution version. You won't be able to. It is irrelevant that you might right-click it and save it to view in some other program. That is really messy. The point is it should all work seamlessly in almost any browser. One day most browsers might be "SVG-capable" but until then use GIF and JPEGs. Wikipeadia should not be a proving ground for new technology.

I did exactly what you said, I downloaded the 8-month old browser and went to the cricket page. The image was visible. I clicked on the image, the image page came up (again, I could SEE the image). I didn't see a link to any "high resolution version", but I could right-click on the image and choose "Save Image As" which produced a PNG image named "448px-Cricket_fielding_positions2.svg.png" (143 kb). So:

I don't get why you state that everyone cannot see the images, I could see the image on Firefox 1.0.7 both here and here

I don't get why you say that "low tech" GIFs and JPEGs are adequate for all practical purposes and that infinite resolution is not "useful" when you yourself are actually looking for a high-resolution image

I don't get why you say that right-clicking on an image is "messy" and left-clicking is not, it seems to me like it's one extra step.

If you're happy with standard resolution on image files, then stay where you are. If you're looking to get an image with a much higher resolution, it's time for you to upgrade your browser to either Opera 9 or Firefox 1.5 (or try out Firefox 2 Beta). The only other option is for Wikipedia to have to store much larger raster image files and that costs a truckload of money.

I'm not going to argue any more on this, you're free to bring this up with the Wikipedia policy makers, but I, for one, am quite happy using modern browsers that are free, available for multiple platforms and have SVG capabilities. Good luck. Jeff schiller 10:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Linked SVG file is invalid

The linked SVG file is invalid. On lines 121 and 127 it has "stroke-dasharray:### ###;". The spec says ([1]) that dasharray is comma separated, not space separated. Firefox's native SVG rendering follows the spec and ignores the rule, so the lines appear non-dashed. Can someone fix this?

Fixed it. How did you manage to find that out? Very subtle. Tnikkel 06:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

He probably opened it in a viewer that doesn't ignore the rule and found that it didn't work ;) Dark Shikari ^talk/_contribs 13:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Can anyone display the SVG image in this article?

I'm currently using Firefox 1.5 RC2 and the image doesn't display unless I press it. Anyone else with this problem?

The problem seems to be that the PNG image is not valid... Jeff schiller 13:23, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

First of all, that's not good enough. Secon of all, it's not a PNG image, it's a SVG images. Third and last, when I try to open the thumbnailpicture upload.wikimedia.org(...)Scg.svg.png it links to a PNG image, and I can't belive that exists. And when I correct it manually, it gives me 404. So is this a MediaWiki bug?

Ok, here's my experience. In the following three browser configurations: 1) Internet Explorer 6 with Adobe SVG Viewer, 2) Firefox 1.5 RC3, and 3) Opera 9 TP1, I see the following HTML source:

<a href="/wiki/Image:Svg.svg" class="internal" title="SVG example">
    <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Svg.svg/180px-Svg.svg.png" 
         alt="SVG example" width="180" height="92" longdesc="/wiki/Image:Svg.svg" />
</a>

If I try to navigate to the .png link, I get a 404. This seems to be why I don't see the image at all - the PNG is not valid. The actual link should be http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Svg.svg/617px-Svg.svg.png. Note that the thumbnail is 617 pixels, not 180 pixels...I can't figure out how to correct the link as I'm not familiar with images in Wikipedia.

The second problem is that Wikipedia does not try to display the SVG instead of the PNG when the user agent can. This is usually done in HTML like this:

<a href="/wiki/Image:Svg.svg" class="internal" title="SVG example">
   <object width="180" height="92" type="image/svg+xml"
      data="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Svg.svg" >
      <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Svg.svg/670px-Svg.svg.png" 
          alt="SVG example" width="180" height="92" longdesc="/wiki/Image:Svg.svg" />
   </object>
</a>

In other words, the browser will attempt to display the SVG first, if it can't handle it, it would fall back to the img tag and display the PNG. This is something that would have to be done at the Wikipedia source code level, and I don't know if that support is there. There are potential problems with this since SVG images can have scripts in them that could do other things...how do you control that in the wiki environment? Anyway, I'm really interested in learning the resolution of this. Jeff schiller 15:31, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

SVG Wiki

The SVG wiki seems to be closed and I keep having to clean spam off it. Should we suspend the external link until it has migrated? I cannot find any suggestion of when that might be. --BozMo|talk 11:58, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The SVG wiki was taken down earlier this year due to spam-death. It's recently been reborn and I've added the temporary link. Requires an account to edit pages. Jeff schiller 04:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

SVG 1.2 Full - not yet truly released

The very first line of the abstract in the current SVG 1.2 Full spec states very clearly "This specification is a placeholder for an updated draft of the Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) Full, Version 1.2 specification.". If you further take the time to READ this document you will discover it is an outline ONLY and not a draft document available for review. Jeff schiller 03:00, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

If you follow the link to the previous versions (and so forth) you will find that the SVG 1.2 Full language has, of course, been released for public review. That particular docuent merely apologises for not making an update to 1.2 to bring it into line with the refactoring introduced inSVG 1.2 Tiny. --Nantonos 18:20, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

NantonosAedui: I agree with your updates now. Jeff schiller 19:16, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

But drafts of SVG 1.2 Full have nonetheless been released in the form of supplements to the SVG 1.1 specification. Your edit is misleading, as it suggests that this is not the case. Probably what you meant is that a stand-alone draft (independent of SVG1.1) hasn't yet been released. --Zundark 07:20, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Yep. Jeff schiller 19:21, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia support

Just a note that I've added info that Wikipedia currently support SVG. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:37, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

See commons:Category:SVG for examples of SVG that have been uploaded. LoopZilla 09:00, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Is it accurate to say Wikipedia "supports" SVG? From what I've seen so far, it's not possible to edit the SVG and only PNGs are displayed to the actual user in an article. Can anyone point me to a resource that describes Wikipedia's present and plans to support SVG? Thanks. Jeff schiller 15:46, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Also, I notice that at any SVG image page (like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Orc.svg) that the MIME type listed is "image/svg". This is not the proper MIME type for SVG, it is "image/svg+xml". Jeff schiller 15:50, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

But when you click on the .svg link, the SVG is sent with "image/svg+xml".

Resizable SVG?

All, when looking at SVG images, such as [2], the browser renders the SVG in a fixed size. I think this is because of the fixed size attributes in the <svg> tag:

  width="493.28000pt"
  height="252.89000pt"

Compare this to [3] which will resize to fit in the browser window. I think this has something to do with the "viewbox" attribute, because setting a 100% width and height alone doesn't seem to do it. Is there a generic way to get the SVG items uploaded all resizeable? How? I'm not very experienced with SVG, so any advice would be helpful. Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 21:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

If your image has

width="400" height="300"

in the 'svg' tag, change it to

viewBox="0 0 400 300"

The viewer should then scale the image to fit the viewing area. (Note that the width and height you gave above are in points and would need to be converted to pixels first. Also note that it's a 'viewBox' attribute, not a 'viewbox' attribute.) You don't need to explicitly set width and height, since they default to "100%" anyway. --Zundark 09:41, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I see. that seems to work pretty well, thanks. So, is this something that we want to do for all SVG images? Is there any disadvantage with this? Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 13:52, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Unless there's a reason to specify a particular size for the image, then I don't see any disadvantage. Inkscape used to handle viewBox badly, but this is supposed to be better in version 0.43 (according to the release notes; I haven't tried it myself yet). --Zundark 14:20, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Using a viewBox rather than a fixed width and height is what the SVG specification recommends. --Nantonos 18:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The wikimedia SVG -> PNG renderer doesn't do the right thing in this case. See Image:Hudson County, NJ municipalities labeled.svg (expected results are Image:Hudson County, NJ municipalities labeled.png). It renders 256x256 despite the viewBox attribute. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 23:02, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The GIMP

I am unable to export images as SVG in the latest build of the GIMP (2.2.10 on Windows). If this is indeed possible, please describe how to do so here. Thanks, Jeff schiller 14:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

• The process is a wee bit not-well-explained if you're trying to Google for it. GIMP Documentation has it hidden in the places you don't look. After you draw paths (note: you CANNOT export your normal ol' raster pics to SVG in the GIMP), click the "Paths" tab, and merge the ones you want together. Then right-click that merged layer and select "Export Path..."; the rest should be obvious. ...think I'll edit the relevant section of the article now. 68.100.68.23 04:04, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

SVG help

Hello,

I'd be appreciate any help with the following please:

1) Creating an SVG pink/light blue yin and yang symbol. I've tried, but it doesn't scale correctly.

2) Locating a good copyright free SVG butterfly. This is the best one I have found, but I'm unsure as to whether or not I can use it in Wikipedia:

http://www.croczilla.com/svg/samples/butterfly/butterfly.svg

(Both the butterfly and yin-yang symbols are used by the transgender community).

Thanks !

Dlloyd 22:52, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

The Open Clip Art Library might be of help. heycam 01:13, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Misc stuff

I want tell everyone that if you want an SVG image, you can get them at http://www.openclipart.org (public domain). Also, if you want paint SVG image, you can do so with Inkscape (free, open source) software. Also, I would request someone make an SVG image of Star of Life and preferably put it under public domain.

Native support

I think that the SVG#Native_support subsection could be expanded a bit to describe which browsers support which options for using SVG in webpages, as described in the SVG 1.1 Specification, Section 2.3. Unfortunately, the browser docs that I have perused do not make this terribly clear. Thoughts? Mpd 15:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Please see Comparison of Layout Engines (Graphics) for a detailed description of what engines support which SVG features. I have now added a link to the Native Support article... Jeff schiller 16:00, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah, just re-read your comment/question and checked the section in the spec. This is, indeed, an interesting bit of knowledge that people will want to know about. My own experimentations have shown that Firefox 1.5 and Opera 9 TP2 allow: Standalone, Embedding by reference (HTML:object only, no HTML:image), External link via HTML:a. CSS property from HTML are not currently supported unfortunately. Embedding inline (XHTML) is supported but I have not experimented with it. Jeff schiller 16:04, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Commercial Products

I noticed an anonymous contributer from IP addresses 84.4.43.144 and 84.4.41.76 has been removing links to commercial products that support SVG. Is this against Wikipedia policy? I don't see the harm in having a list of popular commercial products that support SVG, but I have no problem with removing them as long as links to the proper Wikipedia policy item can be put in here. Thanks, Jeff schiller 13:18, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Probably some copyleft or open source zealot. No reason to remove them. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 13:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

You are funny. Remember: Wikipedia IS open source! See reasons below. Look also at the guidelines Spankman

SVG Search Engine

Just wondering: is there a google-images-like search engine that allows you to search for SVG images only? This would be a major help as I am trying to replace all images tagged with {{BadJPEG}} with SVG (or PNG) equivalents. Thanks, -Reuvenk_[T][C] 02:10, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

If you add "filetype:svg" to your google search the search will be limited to svg files. But this may not be of great help, I think it only matches words found in the file name or inside the svg file. Tnikkel 02:45, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem displaying SVG image correctly in firefox 1.5

Hi, I just uploaded the new figure Image:Weighted_K4.svg to the Commons, created using xfig. But when displayed by the MediaWiki software using firefox 1.5, only the nodes, letters and numbers are shown, but not the straight lines. When I click on the image, I get a correct display. Is this a known problem? If so, is it specific to firefox or is it a general problem? What should I do in order to include the image in an article — use it as it is or upload a png-version and mark the svg image as redundant? Thanks in advance, -- Sebdo 18:42, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

When you click on the image Firefox is rendering the SVG, but before that you are seeing a PNG image that is generated on the wiki servers, I believe by ImageMagick, so this probably indicates a problem with ImageMagick's SVG rendering. Tnikkel 21:25, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I will use PNG images then until the problem is fixed. -- Sebdo 19:16, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

External Links Section Revisit

User:Booles had made several edits to this page removing some external links that involved commercial products as well as websites surrounding SVG (including one or two dead links). I had reverted these changes based upon my understanding that, in a list of software that supports SVG, we should not be discriminating against commercial products. Today I received feedback from User:Spankman that I should not have reverted these edits, citing that Wikipedia guidelines state: "the list of external links must remain small, and links to commercial products must be avoided".

First, using "must" in a "guideline" seems rather odd. I went searching but I am no Wikipedia policy/guideline expert here. The best I could find was this which states that external links should normally be avoided to "Sites that primarily exist to sell products or services" and "Links that are added to promote a site". This seems to imply that links to sites that exist to give away free products (i.e. open source products) are ok, which seems discriminatory to me.

Anyway, I then looked at the article and I have to admit that the external links section has gotten rather large. Also, the Toolkits section contains a great deal of external links also. Presumably this growth in links is due to the overall up-take of SVG in the mobile and desktop web spaces, so it seems logical that this has happened. The question is how to trim down/clean up the article in a fair way? I think it is still incredibly useful to SVG newcomers if they learn which products support SVG and this should include commercial products. The lengthy list of links also serves to somewhat validate SVG as a technology, so I'm a little biased here. I'd appreciate any input. Jeff schiller 21:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

This is certainly useful to have a list of commercial products, but the point is that Wikipedia is not the place to do that. "Zealots" of open source are also zealots of wikipedia that is open source and that is not a directory of software. If really you want to know all the commercial products around, you have the usual link to Dmoz, that is permitted by the guidelines and that should list all products related to SVG in order. There is a good reason to restrict links to open source software: source is informative, give us some knowledge of the technology. Commercial product doesn't. The other excellent reason if that if we accept links to commercial product, the page will be invaded by lots a links and becomes a directory of software, not the goal of Wikipedia. There is absolutely no doubt about that, commercial links MUST be removed. Spankman

Then you'd better head over to Microsoft Windows and clean it of commercial links. It's so blatant that there is even one commercial link right there near the top of the article in the infobox. That article is riddled with them, it's disgusting. Tnikkel 07:27, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Possible, but I can't maintain and purge the whole wiki. Spankman 17:15, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Spankman, first, I agree that the list could be trimmed down and I'm looking for useful suggestions towards that effect here. Second, can you please provide a link to the wikipedia policy/guideline document that says commercial links must be removed? Thanks, Jeff schiller 13:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

First of all, look at Wikipedia:External_links#What_should_be_linked_to. Sites that delivers commercial products can't enter the list and even the second list... A product is not a content. Thus, if they don't enter these lists, they should not be linked. Secondly they fall into the category "sites that exist to sell a product or service" because they have nothing else to propose. And such sites must be avoided according to the instructions. More, "Sites with objectionable amounts of advertising": the whole site is an advertisement for a product. More, "Sites that require payment to view the relevant content": you need to pay to use (view) the product. Do you need for more reasons? Apparently you want to shrink the section of external links but without eliminating these links, do you want keeping only commercial products here? Spankman 17:26, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Spankman, do not put words in my mouth. In my latest excerpt, I merely asked for Wikipedia policies of the "MUST NOT" variety. This is for my own education, not to prove anything to anybody. What you have offered (and what I have been able to find) were guidelines which, by their nature, should not to be blindly followed at all costs. There could be valid exceptions to guidelines.

My original statements on this issue reflect my feeling that providing a list of products (commercial and non-commercial) may be useful information for people wanting to learn about or consider development in SVG. You may be under the impression that I want to protect certain links that I have vested interest in. This is not the case. My only interest here is in the success of SVG as a technology, which I feel depends on adoption of viewers, tools, frameworks, and developer interest. I'm an open-source and "free software" fan too, but if the list of supporting products is shortened, it may appear that SVG is not as successful as it is, or that adoption in the marketplace is stalling. However, if there is a dmoz page already set up, then let's go with that and link to it here.

Finally, while I will agree that the primary purpose of a website for a commercial product is in advertising and selling that product, those websites also can and do often offer developer and user support forums and evaluation versions of the software. Maybe these can also be linked to in a dmoz-type page? Jeff schiller 19:29, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

You are wrong on each point. If a commercial website has a forum or any valuable content (for us), put a link on that, not on the description of the commercial product.

You have written: "it may appear that SVG is not as successful". This is really not our problem. The goal of the Wikipedia is to EXPOSE, not to CONVINCE. They may believe whatever they want providing we have delivered the right information.

Valid links must point out additional information to complete the article here. A commercial website has promotional content and not valid information.

Read the discussion in the Village.

Spankman 12:39, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Spankman, based on this

More, "Sites with objectionable amounts of advertising": the whole site is an advertisement for a product.

I have decided to remove all internal links from this article, as every one of them links to another Wikipedia page that is full of advertising for Wikipedia (the whole Wikipedia website only exists to be advertising for its own free encyclopedia). Tnikkel 19:44, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Quite interesting. However Wikipedia provides information for free while these sites SELL products. Splang 07:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Still an advertisement whether or not they sell anything. So if money changes hands, thats inherently evil, right? Tnikkel 08:03, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

There are guys here that are not able to see a difference between information and advertisement. So they read the Walmart catalog when they need for some info in the Encyclopedia Britannica. Spankman 12:31, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I was looking in the Walmart catalog the other day and it's biography of Benjamin Franklin was pathetic. I sent them a letter.

Apparantly you are on of those that can't tell the difference between information and advertisement. A website for a free software project is inherently advertisement, it's advertising the free software product. The creator of the project may even reap financial benefits from such, if they use that website to promote themselves when looking for a job.

If you are looking for information on what products are available for purchase, then the Walmart catalog is a very good resource for such a thing. In fact it would be pretty hard to find any resource giving such information that wasn't selling something. Tnikkel 20:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

There is a lot of open source software for SVG. A source code is a valuable content, so we can link to them. Walmart and such catalogs are good to purchase products, so, read them to obtain lists of available products. Here, this is an encyclopedia and not a catalog. Oh! You are using Firefox! Spankman 06:15, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Probably less than 10% of people come to Wikipedia looking for source code. The other 90% are only interested in tools they can use for SVG, providing a list of useful tools (with or without source code) for SVG is valuable content to those 90%. Tnikkel 06:21, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the majority of people is not interested in sources, but this is valuable content. If we have free, complete, good free products (usually open source) why to add links to commercial products? Once again, Wikipedia is not a directory, Dmoz is. Spankman 07:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Since the companies making the commercial products have not gone bankrupt there are obviously users of their products who think that the commercial products serve their own needs better then the completely free alternatives. It's not our place to tell someone to use free or commercial software, they can make their own choice depending on their on needs and philosophies. Tnikkel 07:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Not a place to choose software too. 84.6.38.64 09:46, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

So if source code is only useful to a tiny minority of people, then why should this page become a web directoy of SVG related source code? As you said before that is what dmoz.org is for. Tnikkel 20:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps links should be included to the wikipedia pages concerning the relevant software. The fact that the de facto standard software (Adobe illustrator) in graphic design supports SVG is important information regarding a graphics format. I would consider attempts to limit referances to purely open-source software over commercial software to be extremely POV. Personally I am a strong advocate of OSS and wish i were able to use something other than Illustrator but for my job it is simply not possible. The role of wikipedia is to provide the way the world is, not the purely OSS world that you wish it were. While you may object to commercial software you should not let that political belief affeect your editing of wikipedia. 62.49.1.131 00:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Proposal to split

I propose to split this page with a such long list of external links and to create another page dedicated to demos, cliparts, example. A such page should not be a single list of link but must add descriptions of the demos with some info about the way they has been built. Waiting for your advices. Spankman 06:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Removing the themes

Links to themes for Linux should put in Linux articles instead. We should not link here anything that use SVG or the page will become gigantic. Spankman 06:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Created SVG Tools

Without to refuse proposals by Spankman above, I have created a new page of tools for SVG, in the model of other articles at Wikipedia, to reduce the size of this article that is too big and has a serious problem with external links. Booles 06:35, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Resource Links Removed

Greetings, new here, please excuse format errors. Why are SVGX and SVGI, SVG Implementations being removed form resource area? cheers

Because there are too much links, and these one have no real content. But you can make a proposal for adding them in this discussion page. Users will judge and decide. Spankman 13:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Implementations directory at svgi.org, what is the problem? Please note at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/ ,SVG Implementations is at SVGI.

I have found nothing about SVG. Can you put a link to a page rather than to the root of the site? HHaskell 09:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

PNG is still better

My example shows that PNG is superior. Compare this with the article's SVG example. renegadeviking

File:Ogre.png 31.35 KB

The PNG image has limited resolution. You can compress svg files into svgz format. Using this I get a filesize of 23.8kb. Tnikkel 21:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

The key advantage with SVG is it's a vector format not a raster format. It is therefore resolution independent. With the original SVG, I could print a banner the size of a football field or even an American football field and it would still be sharp. With your crappy PNG, this would not be the case. I could also edit the SVG in many ways which could not be done with your crappy PNG. It's trivial (relatively) to rasterise a SVG. On the other hand, converting a raster file format in a vector is a very complex process known as OCR trace that doesn't work particularly well. In any case, as Tnikkel has pointed out, you're comparing apples with oranges. SVG is in XML and uncompressed. PNG is a compressed raster format. If you want to compare SVG to PNG, you should at least compress the SVG. Nil Einne 22:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I did a quick and dirty comparison to show the difference. Also for clarification, my references above to your crappy PNG was only intended to explain my view of the file you created, and is not intended to cause any offense to you.

Nil Einne 23:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Using SVG images

I didn't know where to ask this so I am going to put it here. I have created a replacement for [4] at [5]. Do I have to get permission from anyone to start replacing the PNG images with the SVG one?

You shouldn't be replacing the image. Just replace all links to the image... You don't have to get permission. It probably would be polite to inform the content owner but there is a clear policy in favour of vector SVGs so permission is not necessary. Nil Einne 22:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Advantages, uses

I think the article could use some information on what SVG is and will be used for, what advantages/disadvantages it has compared to competitors. For example, is it going to be used for gif and png type images or will it be used for jpg or even tiff type images? -- Kjkolb 19:45, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I think you have misunderstood what a SVG is. Perhaps try reading the article again. SVG is not directly replacing any of these formats. It is a vector format not a raster one. However many people have been rasterising vector content due to the lack of a suitable format. Vector formats are far more suitable for diagrams and the like. Nil Einne 22:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I reread the article but I still didn't find comparisons with other formats, advantages and disadvantages and such. In contrast to the other articles on image formats, like JPEG, PNG and TIFF, I don't think that the article explains what it is, how it works and what it is used for in a manner that most people can understand. -- Kjkolb 08:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

They are fundamentally different image types. Compare raster graphics and vector graphics. PNG, JPEG, and TIFF are all raster graphic formats. SVG is a vector graphic format. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 18:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Editor Transparency

Greetings, why do certain editors(here), who wish to control(vender related?), hide behind screen names, do not provide email contact information? Transparency is good. -- Mpbolger 12:44, 02 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree to some extent, but unfortunately this information can be used for harassment. Some good Wikipedia contributors have been harassed into leaving the project using information available about them on Wikipedia and elsewhere online. The lack of transparency, in the form of real names, hurts us when it comes to people's perception of Wikipedia's reliability, though. -- Kjkolb 23:35, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Article displays improperly

the box containing the second, larger image displays improperly for me under both Firefox 1.5 and internet explorer, althought the display problem is to a different extent. The second box obscures the bottom half of the second line of text in the third paragraph (it has 2 lines all the way across before it goes to narrow columns)

Basically, it should only have 1 line full width, but it has a second one thats obscured behind the box

example:

#####################
############"""""""""
##########  |       |
##########  |       |
##########  |-------|
(where # is text, " is the top half of text, and | and - are a box around the image )

I've had a look at the source, and messed it around a bit in preview, but cant seem to figure out exactly the cause.

Kaldosh 09:23, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a problem with any article that has 2 images in the same way, and unrelated to it being in SVG. does anyone know where a better place to note this would be? Kaldosh 17:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Searching for Text within a SVG that is in the wiki

Hello,

I am not sure, if this is the right place for the following question. 
If not, please redirect me to the right website. Thank you.

I am looking for a way to describe processes of a company. For this reason we want to use activity diagramms containing boxes and diamonds. Those diagrams need to have text inside (ie describing the boxes and diamonds).

Now I am wondering:

Can I create SVG graphics, place them in a mediaWiki and search the Wiki for the text inside?

Best regards,

Thomas —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thbaero (talk • contribs) 19:11, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

No Nazi Flag

In some countries this flag is forbidden by law - and there are good reasons for that. I think, it's okay to show the flag in a book about history, but not just for fun in this article. That's not funny! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.168.130.195 (talk • contribs) 12:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)