Talk:Family of Donald Trump

Duplicate contents with Ancestry of Donald Trump

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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What's the point of having Ancestry of Donald Trump and Family of Donald Trump with the identical content? These two articles should be merged into Family of Donald Trump. --Tataral (talk) 23:39, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose merger This article is about the upcoming First Family, not Trump's ancestry. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 23:43, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Um, the article has the identical content as Ancestry of Donald Trump and includes a huge genealogical table and is mostly about his ancestry, so that claim is clearly wrong. Also, the title by no means implies that it isn't about his ancestry, clearly "Family of Donald Trump" includes his ancestry, and everything family-related that is centered on Donald Trump (as opposed to Trump family, which is not centered on Donald Trump). An article only about Donald Trump and his wife and children seems quite unnecessary when we already have all these other articles and individual biographies on all of them. --Tataral (talk) 23:58, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
    • I recommend the duplicate information be removed and this article be moved to Trump family after the merger is complete in line with Bush family, Obama family etc. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 00:02, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
      • No, that's a ridiculous suggestion. The Trump family article already exists as an article on a completely separate topic which isn't about Trump's ancestry and which is much broader in scope than just Donald Trump and his wife/children, and obviously people who are in the family of Donald Trump, but who are not members/descendants of the Trump family itself (including his ancestors who are unrelated to the Trump family), have no place in an article on the Trump family. --Tataral (talk) 00:05, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose merger This is about the 45th First Family, just like Family of Barack Obama. Notice how it also includes genealogical tables and information on all the extended family members. The Trump family article is about the historical Trump family from Germany, that eventually lead to Donald Trump's current family. User1937 (talk) 00:09, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
  • It is not clear from your comment if/why you oppose merging Ancestry of Donald Trump into this article (effectively redirecting it to this article), while retaining Family of Donald Trump as a separate article in the form it was created by you, with both genealogical tables and information about Donald's immediate family (which are both well covered by the title "Family of Donald Trump"). --Tataral (talk) 00:12, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
    • No, I want Ancestry of Donald Trump to be merged into Trump family, which it pretty much already is. For Donald Trump's immediate family, you have Family of Donald Trump. That's all. User1937 (talk) 00:45, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
      • You have yourself created this article as a duplicate of Ancestry of Donald Trump with a large genealogical table and with most of the content devoted to Trump's ancestry. What you are saying now does not actually seem consistent with the article you created, and it is not clear why you would not want to retain this article in its present state, as you wrote it, and redirect the article where the content was originally located here. The Trump family article is only about Donald Trump's ancestors to the extent that they belonged to the Trump family. His other ancestors, from Scotland, are not part of the Trump family and have no place in an article about a family from Kallstadt. The article also covers family members who are not Trump's ancestors at all, but in some cases very distant relatives. --Tataral (talk) 03:33, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
        • You know what, you totally have a point. We should probably stick to the immediate family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User1937 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
• We don't need three articles about the Trump family. I suggest keeping this one focused on Donald Trump's family, perhaps merging some non-overlapping bits from Ancestry of Donald Trump into an "Ancestry" section, and keeping the wider-ranging Trump family as is. Then Ancestry of Donald Trump should redirect to the "Ancestry" section here. The Ancestry section would have a hatnote pointing to Trump family for further information. How does that sound? — JFG ^talk 17:08, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

That makes sense to me. I restored the merge proposal yesterday of Ancestry of Donald Trump and Trump family and posted "support" for the merge, but your proposal, and User:Tataral's diligent edits and subsequent case for having a separate Trump family article, have convinced me. I'll cc this message over at Talk:Trump family. Wikishovel (talk) 21:22, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that is a solution that I support as well. --Tataral (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

• Support per nomination and discussion above, and at this point the merge is already nearly complete. @User1937 and Champion: do I understand correctly that you support the merge of Ancestry of Donald Trump to this article? I'd like to close the proposal if we've arrived at a consensus. Thanks, Wikishovel (talk) 14:50, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Seeing that all contents of Ancestry of Donald Trump have been merged into Family of Donald Trump#Ancestry and properly structured there, I have now redirected the page. — JFG ^talk 04:07, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Coat of arms

This coat of arms is said to be the logo of a Scottish golf resort. A spokeswoman for Trump has said that it "will officially represent the Scottish brand", "The coat of arms brings together visual elements that signify different aspects of the Trump family heritage and importance of this project [the golf resort in Scotland]" and "We own a portfolio of outstanding golf courses and Trump International Golf Links, Scotland- a championship links course in the home of golf- is set to be the jewel in the crown".[1] I'm not convinced this is intended as a coat of arms of the Trump family as such (in which case it would be more natural to adopt a German-style coat of arms and in which case British heraldic authorities would have no say in the matter) or even of Trump himself; it seems more like a logo used by one of his business enterprises. --Tataral (talk) 03:25, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Well, it was used as part of the logo, but it's a real coat of arms. Donald Trump has officially registered the coat-of-arms, and four years later was granted the right to use it. But it's not necessarily a Scottish coat, as he used the same crest in Ireland, putting Ireland on the bottom. He simply uses the crest all over the world in different logos, but that doesn't make the crest itself a logo. In Scotland, when you get a coat of arms approved, it means that crest officially stands for your family, in this case the Trump family. So yeah, it might seem a bit weird, but it's real and should stay. User1937 (talk) 13:00, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

The article cited above, and other articles, seem to imply that Trump simply registered this in Scotland to be able to use it as a logo of his golf resorts there (it was "unveiled [as] the official coat of arms for the Trump International Golf Links Scotland", a golf resort company). Also, I've seen him use somewhat different coats of arms/logos elsewhere (that are different coats of arms from the heraldic perspective), so there is a clear indication that this is meant more by Trump (or really his company) as a business logo (for some of his businesses, not all of them), than a coat of arms for his family. In any event, the Trump family is German and it wouldn't be the coat of arms of anyone else than Donald Trump and his descendants, not of the entire Trump family, and it would be far more logical to assume a German-style coat of arms if you were to adopt a "Trump family coat of arms" (while British authorities insist that one cannot assume a coat of arms but have to pay an exorbitant fee to them to be "granted" it, this is not the case elsewhere, and in the world of heraldry, the British position is considered unreasonable and applying only to Britain).

Unless there is clear evidence that this is intended as a personal coat of arms to be used by him personally, as opposed to just a logo for some of his businesses, I question the prominence of it by having it in the infobox on his immediate family. It doesn't matter how Scottish authorities treat it, because it's clear the reason for the registration there was only the dispute over whether he could use it as a business logo for his golf resorts. --Tataral (talk) 15:20, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Daily Mail allegations

I rolled back the Daily Mail allegations since the Daily Mail, per the BBC article, has retracted their story. --Mr. Vernon (talk) 00:36, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Barron Trump

Should the allegations that Barron Trump has autism be mentioned? (2A00:23C4:6388:7300:71B9:4388:F053:E131 (talk) 11:44, 26 November 2016 (UTC))