Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eastern Air Lines Flight 855

Eastern Air Lines Flight 855

Eastern Air Lines Flight 855 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This doesn't meet the notability standards, either in general or supplemental, for coverage in a stand-alone article or even, arguably, for mentioning in the type article's accidents-and-incidents section. The engines flamed out due to bad maintenance, the pilots restarted one, they landed. There was no hull loss, no fatalities or even injuries, and aside from "you screwed up the maintenance, here's a rule to Do It Better", there were no significant changes to procedures or regulations as a result of the incident. It was a close one, but close doesn't count. Note that in 2011 a PROD was declined on the basis of "incident has received wide and in-depth coverage up to the present day" - but a search doesn't seem to show it; there's plenty of routine coverage of the "this incident happened; here's how; here's what you can do to avoid making the same mistakes, and here's what you can do if your mechanic didn't watch the previous bit" type, and the only book coverage that would indicate "beyond the routine" is a self-published, vaguely fringey title or two.

(edit: It's also worth noting, or at least disclosing, that the article was created by a long-since site-banned editor who was (and is, as he's one of our most persistent sockpuppeteers) notorious for pushing non-notable aircraft accidents into every possible article.)

TLDR: doesn't meet notability standards, no continuing coverage, shouldn't have an article accordingly. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:48, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:51, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 02:06, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 02:06, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:51, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Comment I recall this incident because at the time I was visiting my parents in South Florida. This incident is certainly more noteworthy than Northwest Airlines Flight 5 which also has a Florida connection. Usually I am in favor of delete, but for this article I'm on the fence as of now....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 02:06, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

• Keep - A major airliner losing thrust in all engines is a very rare and notable event regardless of why. British Airways Flight 9's engines flamed out simply because the pilots weren't properly informed where volcanic ash was and that flight had zero fatalities or injuries and no haul loss. While I believe the nom made a good-faith effort to confirm the previous PROD-removal rationale, "incident has received wide and in-depth coverage up to the present day" but I've learned over the years searching with simply an article title isn't always efficient. Firstly in 1993, there was a huge amount of coverage from the likes of the New York Times, the Washington Post and UPI and many others (these here are just samples). [1][2][3] with the full NTSB report in 1984.[4] Secondly, very in-depth coverage continued for decades, like that of the 2017 book Behind Human Error (authors include Sidney Dekker). [5] Other in-depth coverage include the the 2008 book Is it Safe?: Why Flying Commercial Airliners is Still a Risky Business, and what Can be Done about it [6] and the 2008 book 35 Miles from Shore: The Ditching and Rescue of ALM Flight 980 (some pages missing from this preview) [7].--Oakshade (talk) 04:04, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
  • The search was done by the flight number, and the sources you mention above are exactly the sort of routine coverage any incident like this produces. Furthermore, Is It Safe? is a self-published book and thus not a reliable source (and is also exactly the one I mentioned in the nom as 'self-published with a conspiritorial tone'). I'd be happy to be proven wrong here, as it's an interesting incident, but I have yet to see anything to indicate it's a Wikinotable one. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 07:26, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

WP:ROUTINE coverage is "such things as announcements, sports, and tabloid journalism" and of course the coverage that is decades later - or even just after the incident happened - is nothing of a sort. The Wikinotable is of being the in-depth coverage by reliable sources that spreads over decades thus easily passing WP:GNG. Even if you exclude that one book out of all the coverage, this still is easily Wikinoable.--Oakshade (talk) 07:52, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

• Delete - a 1983 mechanical failure is not notable.--Rpclod (talk) 14:54, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Does being a 1983 mechanical failure suddenly mean this did not receive in-depth coverage spanning decades thus passing WP:GNG not to mention there was not a total engine failure of a major jetliner? --Oakshade (talk) 22:37, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

• Keep, the event has received significant coverage in multiple sources. In addition to the books already mentioned, this event received an entire chapter's worth of coverage in the book Emergency! Crisis on the Flight Deck by Stanley Stewart. The book also has chapters devoted to American Airlines Flight 96, British Airways Flight 9, TWA Flight 841 (1979), the Gimli Glider and the Cessna 188 Pacific rescue, among others. YSSYguy (talk) 15:33, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
• Keep The near-disaster has also been discussed in Neil Johnston; Nick McDonald (2017). Aviation Psychology in Practice. Routledge. pp. 109–113. ISBN 978-1840141337. (first published 1994) where it says "As a result of the Miami incident, there has been a regulatory change in the US to prevent such an accident from occurring again." The type of maintenance procedures required at the time are now prohibited. This meets WP:AIRCRASH#Aircraft articles #3 and WP:GNG with continuing coverage as well as very extensive press reporting at the time. The nomination is misconceived. Thincat (talk) 12:08, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
• Keep coverage through many, many years including academic books. This is a complete failure of every engine on a large jet, why are we even discussing this? Longstanding coverage is inevitable. 89.240.130.238 (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2018 (UTC)