Talk:Pittsburgh

• /Archive 1: Nov 2004 – May 2006.

Demographics - data soup

So much detail in the demographics section, put in prose, to me, is just so much data soup. It obscures rather than informs. Does the datum that Pacific Islanders = 0.66% help us understand the nature of Pittsburgh? Can we please simplify this section? Or, if the entire Census 2000 profile really needs to be here, can we put it in tabular form? Please see the 20 June 2006 version for an example of a Demographics section that is more readable. Tomcool 22:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Local Dialect Section

Dialect -- People from Pittsburgh tend to add the word "all" before the verb in a question: "What all did you buy at Giant Eagle?" (What did you buy at Giant Eagle?) "Who all was at the party?" (Who was at the party?). Also, the phrase "to be" is usually dropped from common phrases: "This room needs cleaned." (This room needs to be cleaned.) "My car needs fixed." (My car needs to be fixed.)

Should things like "keller" and "crick" really be listed as "notable terms"? Some of the words and phrases listed really are specific terms, but these two (and arguable others) are just some examples of how words would sound with this particular accent.

Chipped ham and sliced ham are two different things!!! Sliced ham is when you put the ham on the slicer and cut it into sheets. Chipped ham is when you cut it up into small pieces so you can throw a handful onto your sandwiches. I'm from pittsburgh. I know this.Dan 18:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

-- I know for a fact that pronunciations such as "Keller" and "Crick" are not unique to Pittsburgh. They are not even unique to Southwest Pennsylvania. It's really a minor thing, but there should be some sort of note saying that these pronuncations can indeed be found in, but are not unique to, Pittsburgh.

I think the dialect section should be removed completely. Surely other major cities have their quirks about certain terms. Pittsburgh is not exactly unique in this regard. Plus, it's not so pervasive that you wonder where you are... ClarkBHM 19:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Othe cities can add their own dialect sections. I think it should stay. I see where you're going with keller, but I think crick is more notable as a term, not a mispronounciation. Also, much of "Pittsburghese" is prevelent in the metro area and parts of the midwest, but these words and terms have worked their way to being "from Pittsburgh." Perhapse we could seperate these from true Pittsburgh words, but I think some of them deserve to stay. I have had people from other parts of the state look at me and say, "you're a pittsburgher, no one else says that." So I do think that it is "pervasive"--Jimktrains 12:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I split the sections. How's it look. As I said some of the terms may spread beyond pittsburgh (can't say for sure), but many of them are assosiated with pittsburgh by many areas of the country. Also, instead of examples of pronounciation, maybe someone with some lingustics knowlege could explain some of the pronounciation.--Jimktrains 12:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Schools/Def Pittsburgh

Please only include schools that are in Pittsburgh. Uniontown, New Kengsington, and McKeesport are not in teh City.

Pittsburgh is not the 7 county metro area. This is an article on the city, which has limits within Allegany county. Roughly this is the north and south sides, downtown, oakland, shadyside, squirlhill, point breeze, and homewood (downtown to, not including, wilkinsburg).

Perhapse to settle this ongoing debate we should start a Pittsburgh Metro area article. This would encompase the entire metropoletan area?--Jimktrains 16:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

That's been discussed before. See the archives of this page. I think we agreed to do it, but it wasn't implemented. ClarkBHM 19:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I was part of the dicussion:-p Anyway, just because it was never implement doesn't mean that we can stick anything in this article. It needs to be limited to Pittsburgh proper, not the metro area.--Jimktrains 19:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Why was Robert Morris University removed? It has a campus downtown. From the RMU Website

All Other Robert Morris University Main Campus 6001 University Boulevard Moon Township, PA 15108 412-262-8200 phone

Center for Adult and Continuing Education 600 Fifth Avenue Pittsburgh, PA 15219 412-397-6800 phone

Last I checked Fifh Ave was part of Downtown Pittsburgh. Duquesne University is list and RMU campus downtown is right by Duquense University. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.6.140.242 (talk • contribs) July 25 11:10 (UTC)

RMU was probably removed as it has a satellite campus in Pittsburgh but its main campus in Moon Township. There's no hard definition of what it takes to be in that list, so I readded it at least temporarily. --Matt 14:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

My thoughts are that since there is acampus IN downtown, that it counts, and I've been zelous at what we consider "Pittsburgh".--Jimktrains 22:22, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Eponymous Cities

Why was this article added to the "Eponymous cities" category? The category has no description, so I can't guess what it means. What's eponymous about "Pittsburgh"? -- Mikeblas 01:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Cities named after people, I imagine. Though including Pittsburgh is a bit of a stretch, since the original name is only part of the city's name (as opposed to, say Washington, DC). That category seems like it could get inordinately large though, so I wonder if it's really neccessary. Ddye 01:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch. I asked about it over on the talk page for the category. I think all categories should have some content that describes and defines the category, and that one certainly doesn't. --Mikeblas 02:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Revert on Lists and PAT

I don't think that a short (I don't expect nor want much more than what is there) is against the spirit of the lists rule. I think that it is the clearest way to expres these facts, lists do have palces, if not overused...

I need to see a source for the PAT stats. I also think that the stats, if true, are misleading and would have to be worded better and not so biasedly (is that a word?)--Jimktrains 14:47, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but it is irrelevant. If people want to see a list of terms, they should click on 'List of terms.' If they don't, then they can read about 'Yinz' and a few other hard-core Pittsburgh examples. There is a lot more to Pittsburgh than the dialect. Frankly I think there should be at least an entire computer screen full of Steelers information, but that probably wouldn't be fair. =\

How is it irrelevent? There is no "list of terms" and having a page of jsut pittsburghese terms would be involation of the policy. I think the old list was fine. It gave a flavor, but was not overwhelming.--Jimktrains 01:08, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should just have a list for everything then. Why not?

Famous Pittsburghers

Famous Pittsburghers needs to be changed to a paragraph about a few of the most famous people (maybe a couple from history like Andrew Carnegie and a couple from today like Mark Cuban). If not, then people will just build onto the list on the main page and not the 'List of Famous Pittsburghers' page.

Disambiguation

First, it wasn't the correct format. Second, it wasn't hyperlinked. Third, there is a song by the name too.

Question: are these important enought to require a disambiuation page? And if so, it would be Pittsburgh, not Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, right?--Jimktrains 01:00, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

POI

What was the Point of Interest section deleted?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimktrains (talk • contribs) 19:40 Jun 27 2006 (UTC)

Which edit are you talking about? --Matt 19:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about not signing:-p I'm not sure. I saw it in bulk and didn't notice that it had jsut ben redone....--Jimktrains 00:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Yinzer

"Yinzer" is a classist term. I'm not sure why it shouldn't be in the Wikipedia article. Please take a look at what happens when Professor Mike Madison uses the term carelessly in his blog: [1], [2]. Or take a look at these Overheard in Pittsburgh entries: [3], [4], [5]. Disclosure: I run Overheard in Pittsburgh, but these are all entries that were sent to me with the word "Yinzer" used to describe someone considered to be of low class and education.

It's not a nice word; I wouldn't want to be called one. --Chris Griswold 05:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

From the Post-Gazette:

• "But for every beer-soaked yinzer who is mad as hell because Burress let down the Stillers n'at, 10 people who live in the real world might think it's cool that he put his family first."[6]
• "Any station that tries innovation (remember The Revolution?) will incur the wrath of the yinzers."[7]
• "The general opinion seems to be that you should expect to pay this much, and if you don't, you're a cheapskate yinzer with unrealistic expectations."[8]--Chris Griswold 08:03, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're trying to support. I don't think yinzer is inappropriate for the article, far from it. I think the statement "It is generally a term used by the few people born outside the area that move to Pittsburgh to mock the working class locals." is inappropriate. --Matt 15:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Mod matt up. It seems that my reason for taking it out isn't the sole one. I never found it to be a derogatory term (mainly used by freinds from outside the area, joking, never been called on "for real"). I like the current revision.--Jimktrains 21:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Awesome!--Chris Griswold 03:41, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Neigborhoods

Before I start a revert war, why was teh section on neiborhoods taken out? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jimktrains (talk • contribs) 07:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I support a revert on that. An IP with only one change? Doesn't seem like vandalism, but doesn't seem like an editor who will reply to your comment either. --Matt 14:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll fix it. Srry bout not signing--Jimktrains 14:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Climate

I don't think Pittsburgh is in the top seven cloudiest cities in the U. S. Check this out:

Q: What are the top ten cloudy cities in the USA?

A: The list the National Climatic Data Center prepared a few years ago indicated that Astoria, Ore., is tied with Quillayute, Wash., as the cloudiest U.S. weather stations, each with 240 cloudy days a year.

The next 8 on the list are:

Olympia, Wash., 229 days Seattle, 227 days Portland, Ore., 223 days Kailspell, Mont., 213 days Binghamton, N.Y., 212 days Beckley, W.Va., 211 days Elkins, W. Va. 211 days Eugene, Ore. 209 days (Answered by Jack Williams, USATODAY.com weather editor, Dec. 13, 2004)

--alexyu 15:58, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Might have to do with how 'city' is defined --Matt 16:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I know I had a source for that. I thought I posted it here, but I guess not. I will try ot find it.--Jimktrains 17:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

In the mean time, could someone add a reference to the NOAA? http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/ccd-data/CCD_2005.pdf lists an average over 43 years of 203 overcast days. That's something. --knockNrod 12:59, 17 October 2006 (EST)

City Seal

I found a really good high quality image of the seal of the city but I'm not sure if using it would be copyright infringement. http://pghbridges.com/articles/pghseal/pghsealbcba.jpg --Gw099 22:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Use seal --Matt 23:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay well I updated the page with the higher resolution image of the seal just remove it if you think it's too obtrusive --Gw099 03:00, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

yunz

Why is there a fact tag next to yunz? Since it's stated that "you ones" -> yinz, yunz is conjecture to begin with, and it is commonly accepted conjecture, why does it need a fact tag? If you are going to argure that since it isn't a cold hard fact it shouldn't be there, just revert teh edits to their prior form. I personaly think that it is ok to have, since it is said to be "generaly thought"--Jimktrains 12:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Because this is an encyclopedia and nothing is "generall" thought, only cited. If enough people believe it to be a contraction of those words, someone must have written it down for publication. --Chris Griswold 13:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

This is also linguisitics, we cannot prove this either. It doesn't matter how many times it is written down, it can never be proven true; hence why citeing it as "generaly accepted" is OK--Jimktrains 19:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

As there are more than 1 common answer tow here yinz came from, I took it back to saying nothing about its origin. That can be left for yinz:-p--Jimktrains 19:19, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Somewhat related; in all the 25 years I've lived in Pittsburgh, I've never once, anywhere, ever, seen it spelled with a 'u' instead of an 'i'. --24.3.121.180 22:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

North Side -> North Shore

The North Side was renamed the North Shore at some point in the last 5 years, highway signs and references have all since been updated although most of the population still refers to it as the North Shore. Does anybody know when? I'll add the info and make the changes but I can't remember the date.

Also there are a few notable things that were left out, such as "chipped ham" and the "Primanti Brother's" sandwich shops. I think they are officially "notable" because I've seen mention of them on various television shows on, say, the History Channel or the Food Network. Not sure whether every minor little thing like that belongs in the article or not, though. There's also the other standard stuff; "gum bands", "pop", etc, (and all those other annoying things out-of-towners like to ask about every time they come to Pittsburgh ;) ). --24.3.121.180 22:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

The term "North Shore", refers to the area between the Allegheny River, and the railroad tracks to the north, not the North Side as a whole.

It's a marketing term used to separate the cultural areas from the crime reports. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 07:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Beltway 76-70-79

I removed the added comments about how 70-76-79 form a beltway but it is A)"but its distance from the city center" is very subjective, some metro beltways are on extreme ends of the metroplex even traversing states that the city itself does not border (example Cincinnati) and yet those are still referred to as beltways. and B) "the need to exit and enter each leg in order to continue circling the city render it impractical as a beltway" is just false. That type of statement implies that to use 70 or 79 or 76 as a beltway is "impractical" but compared to what? If you have ever driven those three interstates in W. Pennsylvania you would immediately realize that 70-76 junction is exits exits everywhere, since I-70 ceases as an independent interstate and instead merges with the original turnpike/76 corridor. 79 and 70 are similarly conjoined, you literally have to exit off of 79 and then exit again off 70/79 to continue to traverse the 79 route. The rule is that these interstates REQUIRE "the need to exit and enter each leg in order to continue" not only circiling the city but simply to get from West Virginia to Lake Eire or from Ohio to Maryland. Calling special attention to the fact that the beltway requires this with no mention of the fact that all traffic, beltway and through, must make those exits and entrances represents something other then the reality of those routes. Interested in other views on this. Hholt01 19:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Missing key information

This article is missing key information on culture, the arts (i.e. Carnegie International), and museums (Where is the Mattress Factory!)

Hey please leave a ~ 4 times after your post! Thank you, that way we can date it and see who you are :) The Matress Factory is in the article as well as the Carnegie try clicking the "Culture" tab or hit CNTRL + F and do a site search for the term. Please read it a bit more carefully next time, if you wish to expand on that to a great degree please be our guest in creating a new article and a link to that article under the culture section of this page, we welcome and substantive addition! Hholt01 07:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Edits for Sep 10, 2006

Made a series of edits, to accomplish the following (was posted in "To Do"):

1. Remove unencyclopedic language; this is not a civic association booster flyer. We all love the city. Let's write an Wikipedia article, observing WP:NPOV, that we can be proud of. For an example of what we should emulate, see the 1911 Encyclopedia Brittanica article on Pittsburgh. All facts, no fluff.
2. cut down the tedious discussion about whether Pittsburg(h) has an "h" or not. A couple of sentences here are enough; if the reader is interested, he or she can go to the Name of Pittsburgh article.
3. cut down the list of famous Pittsburghers. Again, this has its own article: List of famous people from Pittsburgh Tomcool 17:52, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Good edits. Just one note: Please add new talkpage comments to the bottom. But seriously: Good edits. Please join WikiProject Pittsburgh. We're just getting started, but I'd definitely like you to be a part of it. WikiProject Pittsburgh --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Edits on Sept. 15, 2006

I guess this article is kind of long, but I removed/re-wrote a couple of items primarily for clarity.

1. Removed references to Pittsburgh being among the most livable cities in 1980 and 1983 (or whatever years in the 80's that were mentioned). That's over 20 years ago...who cares? It is appropriate to leave the 2005 reference in, which I did.

2. I'm not sure Pittsburgh has suddenly become "the" center for medicine, technology, etc. So I soft-pedaled it a little, saying that it is "trying" to become a center.

3. To say that the Squirrel Hill section has one of the largest Jewish populations in the NATION is simply not true. I'd like to see a citation on that. Perhaps it has one of the largest Jewish populations in Western PA, but I'm not sure how salient a fact like that really is. I re-wrote it to say that Squirrel Hill has a significant Jewish population in Pittsburgh. A deeper explanation can be found in the "Squirrel Hill" entry in Wikipedia.Asc85 20:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad you made these notes. I'm not sure what to think of your first point, but I don't have a strong enough opinion on it to agree or argue. As for the second item, either one of those statements - what you changed and what you changed it to - really needs to be cited. You were able to change it because it is uncited; someone else can come along and do the same again. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 20:29, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Pittsburgh is a center of medicine (US News and World Report, I do not know where to find it onlue, but I have read the paper version), as for technology and teaching, Pitt and CMU are always ranked high in the ranks for universities and have a long history of being such. I don't know what you would want to prove this to you. I changed it to "has become a," because it isn't "the," but it is a. --Jimktrains 22:59, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll agree with your edit. I'm not from the Pittsburgh area, which on the one hand makes me more objective (I think), but I'll also concede makes me less knowledgable. Then again, I've only made selected edits, and am certainly not trying to screw with the entry.Asc85 23:52, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I certainly don't think you are. I think your edits have been well-considered and beneficial to the article. As for what "proof" we need: We need magazine articles or the like that say that Pittsburgh is a center for these things, or that the schools are ranked as Jimktrains says. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 02:29, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Added some links to rankings....--Jimktrains 00:30, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. That is much appreciated. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 00:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Washington Wildthings

They play in Falconi Field, which according to the Census and thus congress is part of "pittsburgh", plus the Pittsburgh Riverhounds play on the same exact field, why not include them in the Pittsburgh sports list?? Either they should be included or the Pittsburgh Riverhounds should be excluded, but obviously that shouldn't happen so they should be included 65.33.180.136 08:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 16:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

They are Pittsburgh's team, the Wild Things is Washington's. Personaly I don't care if they stay or go on the page see that they don't play in pittsburgh, but I do not feelt eh Wild Things should be mentioned. This is about Pittsburgh the city, not Pittsburgh the metropoletan area.--Jimktrains 23:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Gooder idea. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 23:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

photographs

Hi to all, I am an amateur photographer and have made a number of photographs of Pgh (as some people say, rather good ones) I'd like to share with Wikipedia. Of course there are plenty of better photos in albums and on the Web, but since Wiki has a strict copyright policy, maybe they will be useful. I'm not really good in editing articles, using html tags, etc., so I'll just upload them on Imageshack.us and leave the links here, if someone is interested.

Yes, some good fotos of the city would be great. If you want to contribute them to the public domain, you should upload them to Wikimedia Commons.Tomcool 16:01, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Any specific photo requests can be made at WikiProject Pittsburgh. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:15, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Before I start a war...

Among the other Pittsburgh area colleges and universities are the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, Carlow University, Chatham Univeristy, Duquesne University, La Roche College, Point Park University, Robert Morris University, Saint Vincent College, Seton Hill University, Slippery Rock University, and Washington & Jefferson College.

Should this really be in this article? Should this be moved into the Pittsburgh Tri-State article? For anyone wanting to know why, look at the education thread above. --Jimktrains 15:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm ok with it. Plus we already have a list encompassing most of these colleges a few paragraphs down. --Matt 15:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)