User talk:SharabSalam

Tabun oven

Hi, Sharab Salam. I have just expanded on several sections in the article Tabun oven. I have translated excerpts taken from a book entitled Halikhot Teiman. I have made use of a Arabic words, which I transliterated into English. Perhaps, if you can find the time, you can add the real Arabic script alongside of these transliterated words, such as the splinters of wood, called in Arabic: luṣwah; or the cakes of sheep dung, called in Arabic kibe; or the small tree that grows in the Yemen called in Arabic jiʿdin, and from where they took small splinters of wood for lighting the tabun. Your assistance here is much appreciated.Davidbena (talk) 02:01, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Davidbena, I don't know most of these words, I will add what I think I know. The other words seem to be in a different dialect of mine. There are lots of words that I don't know from Amran, Sana'a and South Yemen dialects.

I have a question. The Tabun and Tandour are the same thing?.

I guess Tabun is mostly used in Syria and Lebanon because they use it to make Pita. It is also used to make Pizza in most countries. While Tondour/Tanour is the one that is used in Yemen. In Yemen it is sometimes called Tabun but mostly it is called Tanour. I think it could be mistakenly called Tabun.

The Tandour/Tanour is what we use in Yemen. This Al Jazeera 6 mins video shows a woman from Taiz using Tanour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZb8kQuX0jU. It looks different from the Tabun (judging from the Tabun images that I saw in Google image).

In where I live in Taiz we use Tanour, it is made of burned clay. After we buy it we also add lots of clay around it so the heat don't go out and it become strong. I think, and I am not sure, that the Lwsiah is a think piece of wood. We put it inside the Tanour(Mafi). It helps make the Tanour stay in heat for long time. There is a hole at the bottom of the Tanour(Mafi), it is called "Ayin al-Mafi" the Tanour is called "Mafi" in rural areas of Yemen.

I don't know about the cakes that are made of sleep dung. There is something called Ṣirdad (in Arabic:صرداد) which is dried cow dung that is used to fire the Tanour instead of using wood. Only few old people do that. Most people don't do it anymore. I think Kibe could be old thing and only old people know about it. I currently have no idea what it is.

For the tree that is used to lighten the Tanour, I don't know what "jiʿdin" is. Are you sure about your transliteration?. I think the tree could be Acacia sensu lato or Leptadenia pyrotechnica.--SharabSalam (talk) 09:46, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Davidbena for your work in Yemen-related articles. I will do more research and see if I can add more things and if I can find the Arabic script for your transliteration..--SharabSalam (talk) 10:06, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Salam, asalam aleikum. I do not know if the tandour is the same as a tabun. My source was referring to the tabun (also called tanour), and it is made of burnt clay. There are different ways of making it. As for my transliteration of the Arabic words into English, they may not be accurate. I transliterated them from the Hebrew, using the equivalent Arabic-English letters. Yes, the Lwsiah is what our author was referring to. It's a piece of wood. As for the tree, I'll try to find out its scientific name the next time I visit the University in Jerusalem. There is a botany book which I saw there, describing the flora in Yemen. In the dialect of Arabic spoken in San'a in the early 20th-century, they called Ṣirdad (in Arabic:صرداد) by the name kibe (in Arabic: كِبة). Be well.Davidbena (talk) 13:52, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Davidbena In my personal opinion the Tannour (also called "Mafi") is the one that is used and was in Yemen. So the content you added about Yemen might be about Tandoor not Tabun article. The Tabun term seems to be misused at some point. In Yemen the word "Tabunah" (Arabic: طابونه) means wheat flour so some people used the term "Tabun" to refer to Tannour. The reason why wheat flour was called "Tabunah" is because there was no wheat flour in Yemen. The corn flour is the one that was mostly used in Yemen then a foreign company came to Yemen and produced wheat flour. The company brand/product was called "Tabunah" and so Yemenis called the wheat flour Tabunah. This is just my theory.--SharabSalam (talk) 04:56, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Actually, the Rabbi from Yemen (Yosef Qafih) who wrote the article about the Yemeni tannour calls it by two names: He wrote in his book: "Every house is used to stoking the oven twice a day; once for the morning meal in a smaller oven, called ṣuʿṭah, and once more at noon time in the larger oven, called simply tannour." (End Quote). Here, in Israel, we are accustomed to calling such clay ovens by the name tabun. I have never heard a person here, in this country, call the clay oven by the name tandour. In your place in Yemen, they also use a different name for the tannour, where it is also called "Mafi," but even here we're speaking about the same thing. In this country, they call it tabun.Davidbena (talk) 18:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Davidbena I was thinking about the "ṣuʿṭah" it is actually called "ṣuʿ'dah or ṣuʿ'd (صُعد). The basic example of ṣuʿ'd is just three stones together and some wood and fire. You probably have seen it, where a group of people sitting in the desert or somewhere alone and cooking meat at night. The ṣuʿ'd is the same or very similar. I don't know what it is called in English.

The Tabun and the Tandoor are different things, it's not about whether they are made of clay or not, it is about how they look like and how they work.--SharabSalam (talk) 18:16, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Davidbena, you can't make Pizza with Tandoor.

This is Tabun

Tabun

This is how Tandoor looks like

Tandoor

Notice how the way you put the bread inside it, is different. The Tabun is the one that is used in North Arabia to make Pita and also in the West to make Pizza.

You can't make a Pizza with Tandoor.--SharabSalam (talk) 18:26, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Your photographs were helpful. To clarify matters, the older Yemenite Jews here, in our country, still make the tannour. Bread is stuck on the inner wall of the oven; it is not used to make pizza, but if they wanted to they could do so. The people here call the same oven "tabun". They do not use the word Tandour. The words tannour and tabun are used interchangeably here, in our country.Davidbena (talk) 18:40, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

I hope the pictures helped. The Tannour has a cylindrical shape. If you searched in Google images for "Pizza oven" you would only see the Tabun not the Tandoor. You don't usually make Pizza with Tandoor because as you said you put the bread in the inner wall of the Tannour, vertically not horizontally, everything on the pizza will fall to the Tannour if you put it vertically.--SharabSalam (talk) 19:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Precisely. Here, too, the tannour has always a cylindrical shape, and they call it here, in our country, also by the name "tabun." The "tabun" may actually be a generic word for primitive oven.Davidbena (talk) 19:11, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Yemen

Please stop edit warring. Subscribe to WP:BRD. Thanks. El_C 08:43, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

El_C, I didn't get any notification of your reverts and your reverts arent tagged as undo. Will open a discussion soon.--SharabSalam (talk) 08:48, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

I already have. I self-reverted, even though you and the IP are adding incorrect information. El_C 08:50, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

I studied the area of Yemen in school. They told us it is 555,000 km². when I did some research right now. I find conflicting sources.--SharabSalam (talk) 08:57, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

We go with what is current, not historical. Your 2002 sources are basically that. El_C 08:59, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

There hasn't been any change in the area of Yemen since 1990.--SharabSalam (talk) 09:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Geography_of_Yemen#Disputed_territory. El_C 09:02, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Alright, I have reverted. I will investigate this more.--SharabSalam (talk) 09:16, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

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Salam

Akhi, I was expanding the antiquity page of Mogadishu. The phone reference you were talking about. I did not add that. It was already there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lesacrick (talk • contribs) 04:47, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Lesacrick the content you added is obviously not a neutral point of view. See what you did you removed this

Tradition and old records assert that southern Somalia, including the Mogadishu area, was inhabited very early by hunter-gatherers of Khoisan descent. Although most of these early inhabitants are believed to have been either overwhelmed, driven away or, in some cases, assimilated by later migrants to the area, physical traces of their occupation survive in certain ethnic minority groups inhabiting modern-day Jubaland and other parts of the south. The latter descendants include relict populations such as the Eile, Aweer, the Wa-Ribi, and especially the Wa-Boni. By the time of the arrival of peoples from the Cushitic Rahanweyn (Digil and Mirifle) clan confederacy, who would go on to establish a local aristocracy, other Cushitic groups affiliated with the Oromo (Wardai) and Ajuuraan (Ma'adanle) had already formed settlements of their own in the sub-region.

And replace it with this weakly sourced content without providing a reason for that.--SharabSalam (talk) 04:56, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Mogadishu was founded by Proto-Somalis in the second century also known as "Sarapion" by ancient Greeks. Sarapion was briefly mentioned in Ptolemy's Geographia as one of the harbours a trader would encounter after sailing southernly on the Indian Ocean, passing along the way by the Market of Spices (Damo) and the emporium of Opone.

Place discuss the problem with the current version first in the talk page per WP:BRD and seek consensus--SharabSalam (talk) 04:55, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

I was planning to expand the antiquity page. My bad for removing that. I was going to make another section for that but realized what you were clashing. I added it back. Next time I will not remove then come back and then bring it back in another antiquity section. I was rushing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lesacrick (talk • contribs) 04:58, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Lesacrick before you do anything go to the talk page and explain why you want to change or remove some sourced content from that page because you can't make bold edits like that. Also "Muqdisho is so old than west Asia to be influenced by" please source this to relevent source that talks about Muqdisho name and avoid original research, thanks.--SharabSalam (talk) 05:03, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

That is what older reverts say and if you look at the page. It says the same thing but I understand where you coming from. Thanks for the advice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lesacrick (talk • contribs) 05:07, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Look, brother. I want a dialogue. I don't understand why you are being so rude when I am being very open. You need to stop this edit wars. If you disagree then focus on a specific edit, not revert the whole page. That is not allowed in Wikipedia.