Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zachary Laoutides (2nd nomination)

Zachary Laoutides

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Zachary Laoutides (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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just as before, Zachary Laoutides isn't notable. The awards are not notable and being nominated doesn't equate to notability. Additionally, I can find no in depth independent coverage - the sources in teh article are unreliable or puff pieces and searching newspapers and archives gives nothing better. Praxidicae (talk) 16:29, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:53, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:53, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

• Comment. Can you elaborate as to why he is not notable and what the finding was that allowed a survival from the subject's first nomination?--Mpen320 (talk) 19:19, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

  The article did not survive the first nomination. But it was later created again. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:53, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Delete — I agree basically with what Praxidicae said. @Mpen320 see our general notability criteria. Celestina007 (talk) 23:06, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

• I have been a contributor to this site since 2011. I am aware of the policy. I don't think that the nominator made a vague case as to why it should be deleted. I really don't have an opinion on whether or not this stays on Wikipedia.--Mpen320 (talk) 19:50, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

• Keep — Awards may not be notable and being nominated may not equate to notability, that much is true. However, being the founder of the first Hispanic film studio in Chicago and the Midwest is. The article/video interviews (references ABC 7 Chicago and WGN Chicago – Hispanic Heritage Month) visibly discuss and acclaim this subject unquestionably, as does the other Chicago Tribune articles. I found a WBEZ radio interview that I have added that converses this focus as well in detail. Although the article was deleted several years ago, the article was later recreated, an Administrator was its second contributor in 2016, and with the participation of several editors the article was developing, so like Mpen320 I wonder how the article could have that development, and now be undergoing a new deletion discussion? -- DavidRaichel (talk) 19:41, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• Weak keep. I think the nominator has not made a case for deletion based solely on "The awards are not notable and being nominated doesn't equate to notability." I think User:DavidRaichel has made a case that he has received a level coverage and the first Hispanic studio in the Midwest is not nothing.--Mpen320 (talk) 19:56, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jack Frost (talk) 17:26, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

• Keep — A Google search proves that the subject has received enough media attention to be considered notable. Mpen320 and especially DavidRaichel have made good points. Also, the presence of Template:COI leads me to believe that the article's neutrality may play a role in the nomination. On that note, I'll see if I can improve the wording and add the sources I found in my Google search.--Bleff (talk) 23:08, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

We can go in circles screaming "keep" but unless you can provide actual sources which establish coverage, it means nothing. Praxidicae (talk) 17:27, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Sources like ABC, WGN, WBEZ and the Chicago Tribune establish coverage. I suspect there may be a general interest in deleting articles related to this actor, perhaps an edit war between editors with COI? --Bleff (talk) 22:59, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

The WGN source is a locally owned affiliate and doesn't have the necessary coverage to establish notability, the chicago tribune is a contributor op ed and WBEZ is an interview, so not independent (and a local affiliate at that), ABC7 is also a local piece and an interview. I would also encourage Bleff and DavidRaichel to take their concerns about me as an editor to the appropriate venue rather than casting baseless aspersions in an AFD. Praxidicae (talk) 13:06, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

It is not baseless aspersions, you’re the author of all the deletion nominations revealed. As you wish I’ll defer to the Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Advocating WGN, Chicago Tribune, ABC not having the needed coverage to establish notability is faint. Even if you wanted to ignore the substantiation of the actor creating the first Hispanic film studio in Chicago, Huff Post and Film Threat devote news to the actor creating the first iphone 7 film and reinforce his original assertion.-- DavidRaichel (talk) 20:54, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

DavidRaichel yes, your underhanded assertions that I have an ulterior motive along with other editors in this discussion is a baseless aspersion. If you feel the need to comment on me as an editor, do it at the appropriate venue and keep this to discussing the actual article, you know as they say, wikt:put up or shut up. Thanks. Praxidicae (talk) 20:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

• Comment: Related to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/La Raza filmmaking and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ave Fenix Pictures; also Mónica Esmeralda León (who also supposedly created the "la raza" filmmaking concept), and probably Arise from Darkness (see log) and its related Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arise from Darkness, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arise from Darkness (2nd nomination). --Closeapple (talk) 19:58, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

  Considering Bleff, "I suspect there may be general interest in deleting articles related to this actor " it is evident there is concentration by one or two editors nominating deletions in synch, as can be seen in some of the nominations that Closeapple mentioned. Putting aside the peculiar focus and the reveal that one editor is author of almost all the nominations mentioned, the original premise that merits the deletion is simply not based on what brings this actor or some of the previous article’s notability. "The awards are not remarkable and being nominated doesn't equate to notability" - If you start from that premise it is misrepresentative. Beyond being the founder of the first Hispanic film studio in Chicago and the Midwest, he created and starred in films that used innovative techniques, which are the supplementary details that make up the article.--DavidRaichel (talk) 20:24, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

• Comment/Further Discussion. I agree with Praxidicae in that many sources seem to be puff pieces, but it also seems like there are significant changes since the first deletion. Black Ruby seems to have gotten a fair amount of coverage, and on IMDB it states the film won multiple awards, but I can't find any direct independent media coverage of it. Also, it seems like there are at least a few non-English articles about him. It just feels like there may be a bit more time needed, or at most making it a draft page, as there seem to be at least a couple draft pages for related topics, and sequester it until notability is met. KB11001 (talk) 10:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)