Template:Did you know nominations/Timothy S. Healy

Timothy S. Healy

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Timothy S. Healy

• ... that Timothy S. Healy's (pictured) appointment as president of the New York Public Library in 1989 was criticized by some, due to the fact that he was a Catholic priest?

• Reviewed: Jacob Robbins

5x expanded by Ergo Sum (talk). Self-nominated at 05:00, 19 July 2020 (UTC).

• Meets article requirements as far as I can tell, and the image is PD. The hook is interesting, but I'm slightly concerned over its accuracy - the article talks about the concerns not directly being a result of his being a Catholic priest, so much as a result of a lawsuit involving him refusing recognition to a gay university group. I think that ought to be incorporated into the DYK; simply saying "they didn't like him because he was a Catholic priest" seems a bit one-sided, especially when the article actively points out that that is a point of controversy (people claiming that those who took issue with him were anti-Catholic). Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 21:25, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Naypta: I don't see how it's inaccurate. The source names several prominent authors who explicitly said he shouldn't have the position because he was a priest. Others opposed him for other reasons, but that's not part of the hook. (Although, indirectly, even their opposition was due to his beliefs as a priest.) The hook doesn't suggest that was the only reason he met opposition. The reason I wrote the hook about opposition on the basis of being a priest is because that's a more unusual and notable scenario than a group opposing someone because of their views against that group's political interests (which is quite common). Ergo Sum 23:35, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Ergo Sum: Perhaps "inaccurate" was the wrong word - less that it's wrong per se, and perhaps more that it's not the full story (which I appreciate is very difficult to do in a single sentence!). Perhaps something along the lines of ... that Catholic priest Timothy S. Healy (pictured) was a controversial appointee for president of the New York Public Library, due to concerns he would be insufficiently secular? or something like that might encompass slightly more of the argument - I think my main concern was just that the current hook kind of implies that the priesthood itself was the problem, rather than what the priesthood brings with it. (This is my first DYK review, though, so other people might well feel differently!) Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 09:19, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Naypta: I understand where you're coming from. I just hesitate because I think that dilutes the hook-yness of it without actually improving its accuracy. (I don't really see a material difference between opposing because he was a priest and opposing because of what a priest believes; that's just my opinion though). As always, if others would like to weigh in, I'd invite it as well. (Edit: Adding the red arrow to invite additional input). Ergo Sum 15:39, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Naypta and Ergo Sum: I was pinged here off-wiki to provide suggestions, although all suggestions are mine. Maybe we can go with any of the following? epicgenius (talk) 17:19, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
  • ALT1 ... that Georgetown University president Timothy S. Healy, with connections to numerous U.S. presidential commissions, was named one of the five most effective university presidents in the United States?
  • ALT2 ... that Catholic priest Timothy S. Healy was a senior administrator at the City University of New York in what was considered a highly atypical arrangement?
  • ALT3 ... that Catholic priest Timothy S. Healy held senior positions at the City University of New York, Georgetown University, and the New York Public Library?
  • ALT4 ... that Timothy S. Healy donated most of his salary to the Jesuits while he held senior positions at the City University of New York and the New York Public Library?

epicgenius (talk) 17:19, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: Thanks for weighing in. I'd be fine with any of those. My preference would be for 2 or 3 (hooky-est, in my opinion). Ergo Sum 17:33, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

@Ergo Sum and Epicgenius: I'm fine with any of those as well, they look good! I broadly agree that 2 or 3 are the best - probably 3, but I don't think it makes much odds either way. Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 18:35, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Maybe Epicgenius would like to choose one? Ergo Sum 17:09, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

@Ergo Sum: Unfortunately, because I was involved in proposing hooks 1 through 4, these need another reviewer to approve them. However, I would suggest ALT3, followed by ALT2, as the best alternatives. epicgenius (talk) 18:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Touché. Ergo Sum 18:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

@Ergo Sum and Epicgenius: Forgive the (perhaps stupid) question, as this is my first DYK review, but I didn't write the new hooks - am I not able to approve number 3, if that's the one we've concluded is probably best? If I am permitted so to do, I'm happy to. Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 18:56, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Naypta, you could approve the new hooks, yes. It's not a stupid question at all, and anyway, it's your first review. epicgenius (talk) 18:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

In which case, LGTM! Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 18:59, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

@Naypta: Feel free to pick one of the new hooks and strikethrough the rest to make it easy for the promoting admin. Ergo Sum 19:03, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

 ALT3 selected. Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 19:06, 28 July 2020 (UTC)