Talk:Violence against transgender people

Transgender Day of Rememberance

international events for trans abuse awareness. Might deserve addition to article. Benjiboi 04:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Possible resources

From AfD discussion: "Trans-bashing is a well-used phrase and concept in LGBT communities and reliable sources are readily available including 800+ hits in Google, 600+ in Google scholar, and nearly 200 in Google books here and here." Benjiboi 09:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge?

Should this be merged with transphobia? - Scaeme —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.93.187 (talk) 02:02, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Urgently, yes. Trans-bashing is merely the act of expressing transphobia. Whichever article it ends up in also needs less talk of transphobia/bashing being distinct from gaybashing/homophobia, as it is not in any way (see the book "Whipping girl") 82.36.75.12 (talk) 22:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Respectfully disagree. even of we did merge them they soon would become split back into two articles about the related subject. And no, transbashing is not the same as gay-bashing. They are similar and may feel the same to some but they are are distinct and are manifested in their own ways. Banjeboi 23:38, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Might as well merge gay-bashing into all forms of discrimination if we do that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.134.183 (talk) 09:56, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed edits to Trans bashing

I have chosen this article to revise for a class assignment that will span until the end of Spring 2015 semester (see banner for more details). I have a number of proposed edits to make to the article and I would like to take much of what has been said on the talk page into account. A lot of what I am seeing is that the article could potentially be merged with another and I would like to heavily expand it to make it more substantial and more able to stand on its own. Firstly, I would like to change the title of the article from 'Trans bashing' to 'Transgender violence' and give a policy perspective on laws to do with discrimination toward transgender people and policy that exists and is in the making. I would like to make the article more internationally focused. It currently does a good job of defining what trans bashing is but I would like to elaborate on the history and discuss current policy movements that address hate crimes internationally. I intend to discuss the problems that there have been with hate crimes in specific countries and attitudes and policy ideas surrounding them. I would like to add several sections. I intend to add a section on the ‘History’ of violence against transgender people and another section on the ‘Psychological effects’. I plan on changing the subheading ‘U.S. hate crime laws covering gender identity’ to ‘Hate crime laws covering gender identity’ and dividing the section by continent and country. At the top of these subheadings, I will add a section called ‘International’, then on the same level of subheading, add a section on each continent and divide the countries among them that have established policies. I am going to add a section called ‘Religious attitudes on transgender “ below the international policies and a section called “Media attention” underneath, where I will discuss the countries where the issue is more present in the media. I would like to have a section on violence within different groups and those groups' attitudes toward transgenderism. This would include socioeconomic status, race, and ethnicity. Lastly, I plan on going to related articles and including “Transgender violence” in related articles sections and incorporating some of those articles into my own “See also” section. Are there any suggestions other users have for this endeavor? All contributions are welcome. Please respond with any advice or concerns. BSchilling (talk) 06:02, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I'll repeat what I stated at the WP:LGBT talk page: The Trans bashing article was likely named Trans bashing for the same reason that the Gay bashing article was titled Gay bashing -- because of WP:Common name and because many people take the term violence to mean physical violence, without any thought to other aspects of violence. In other words, in these contexts, the term bashing is broader to many people. After all, look at the definitions that usually show up when you Google "Violence definition," or simply Google "Violence." So I'm not sure about renaming the article. If you do, make sure that everything you include in it is actually a violence topic or significantly related to violence.

In fact, I think that the vast majority of people restrict the term violence to physical violence; that's certainly been my experience throughout life, including when reading reliable sources. When someone says, "He became violent.", for example, people don't usually interpret that to mean emotional/psychological violence. Flyer22 (talk) 20:29, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

@Flyer22: I looked through your January 20 revision and I think that a) your edits were valid b) as are the concerns you stated above. Do you think that it would help to make a note that the term violence is not limited to mean physical violence? I fully understand your concern about people's understanding of the term. How do you generally balance actual definitions of terms with a majority understanding of it when addressing serious topics like this on Wikipedia?

Well on your way!

You’ve done a great job on the article so far, but I would be very interested in seeing more sections on the subject. I do realize the subject is very big and I think you’ve done a great job expanding the article to make it comprehensive for someone who didn’t know anything about it before, but I'm sure there are ways to make the article even more comprehensive. Another thing that came to my mind was that I recommend reconsidering having 'bathroom bills' as subsection of a subsection: it has lots and lots of information and seems like it could use its own section or something. All in all I thought the article was very interesting and I’m looking forward to further expasion of this article! AAla-Seppälä (talk) 00:49, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Life expectancy

"The average life expectancy for a black trans woman is 35 years old."

Is the source for this claim available? The web page pointed to just says "some estimates put the average life expectancy of Black trans women at 35 years old " and links to a page that doesn't make the same claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.203.38.185 (talk) 19:05, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Not about gender identity

I moved two claims made in the lead which did not relate to anything in the body of the article down to section #Differentiation from gay bashing. In addition, these two claims are unsourced:

1. Unlike gay bashing, trans bashing is committed because of the target's actual or perceived gender identity
2. a trans person may be gay bashed if the person perceives them as gay rather than transgender.

Both these claims need to be sourced. The first is doubtful, and would imply that a potential attacker is making an evaluation of cis vs. trans gender identity status (rather than the more apparent transgressive gender expression, which can be common to both), before deciding whether to attack. I've tagged it {{dubious}}. The second seems doubtful to me as well, for the same reason, but I've just tagged it {{cn}} for now. Mathglot (talk) 19:11, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Reading the article, it seems that the the first two sentences of the differentiation section are merely a restatement of the lead sentence of the article. If we agree with the article's definition of the term, then the first claim is almost identical in meaning to the lead sentence - that the violence is caused by the victim's perceived status as trans. Also, the second claim is almost a tautology - if someone is thought to be gay, that person could be subject to victimization based on that. It seems that the issue here is one of definition, and the decision here should extend to the entire article. If the definition in the lead sentence reflects common usage, then I think these two sentences follow from that. If it isn't, then we need to rewrite at least the article intro and maybe more.SreySros (talk) 21:02, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

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Rename the article to "transphobic violence"

I've almost never heard the term "trans bashing". It doesn't seem to be a very common term.

Could we rename the article to "transphobic violence" or similar?

A quick Google reveals that it's not very common and "transphobic violence" is much more common:

• "trans bashing" 15,600 results
• "transgender bashing" 1,280 results
• "transphobic violence" 55,100 results
• "anti-trans violence" 20,900 results
• "anti-transgender violence" 39,100 results

It would also bring it in line with the category: Category:Transphobic violence.

Thanks. --Wickedterrier (talk) 18:05, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Although raw Google web hit counts are unreliable (they're sometimes off by quite a bit, apparently because they're just rough estimates), Google Scholar hit counts are generally accurate (if you page through to the last pages of results, as many articles indeed turn us as the results count claimed), and do also show "transphobic violence" to be orders of magnitude more common than "trans bashing". Paging through Google Books results (and looking at Ngrams, where "trans bashing" is too rare to even plot) suggests the same thing. "Transphobic violence" is, as you say, also in line with the category name. My main concern is whether a rename would change the scope of the article, which is currently scoped as including e.g. verbal abuse and hate speech (in like with "gay bashing", which also includes verbal abuse, and which seems to have been an inspiration for the current article title), as well as media depictions and bathroom laws that contribute to increasing harassment, which some might object to calling "violence". However, their role in promoting violence might be enough to retain them (the sections are small anyway) in a renamed article; the current article's section on bathroom bills, for example, could probably be condensed, partly offloaded to Bathroom bill and partly and worked into the section on harassment in bathrooms, especially with more refs which connect bathroom bills to increased harassment in bathrooms. -sche (talk) 18:43, 11 March 2019 (UTC)