Talk:Ezhava

Image request

https://i2.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Picture1-15.jpg The image of ezhava gitls from the book by L.k krishna iyer please upload this .— Preceding unsigned comment added by Redbutterfly0987 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

We cannot use copyrighted images owned by others.
SSSB (talk) 21:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 March 2021

Lord Ayyappa got trained in the Kalarippayattu martial arts at Cheerappanchira Kalari that belonged to Ezhava tharavad in Muhamma, Alappuzha. 117.206.43.67 (talk) 07:50, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.
SSSB (talk) 08:44, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Maybe he thought about adding about Cheerappanchira. Image is available Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:48, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I will explain , also I can see many requests to add ezhavar's old Kalari traditions below such as aloomootil etc. Let me explain this firstly , as you are all foreigners, you might not be knowing the Hindu god Ayyappan in Sabarimala. He is a warrior hindu god born in kerala and Sabarimala is one of the top pilgrimage site in India.

This great Hindu god Ayyappa trained and studied warfare from a Thiyya Kalari called Cheerappanchira. Since this great hindu god learned warfare and fighting from this thiyya kalari . it is notable to add in the page , which would be symbolising the Thiyya's kalari traiditon. Already a section is there called Chekavar in the page you can add this pic to it somewhere as an example, since we could not add all historical kalaris in this Wikipedia article but can add this one as an example.

Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira

Also please don't change the description of the image.

So all together, under chekavar section or somewhere near History (which says ,There are myths of origin for the Ezhava. According to some Malayalam folk songs like Vadakkan Pattukal[13][which?] and legend, the Ezhavas were the progeny of four bachelors that the king of Ceylon (Sri Lanka) sent to what is now Kerala at the request of the Chera king Bhaskara Ravi Varma, in the 1st century CE) you can add this pic to give a proof of thiyya kalaris

The image caption it is said Cheerappan Chira Kalari, Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar Kalari, which trace their origin to Kadathanadu. Here the article says Thiyyas were from North Malabar and is sourced, then how it would be a Thiyyar Kalari even the Cheerappanchira article itself says as an Ezhava Tharavad located in Travancore? R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 13:42, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

They were from kadathanad area, present day vadakara. So it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.222.167.243 (talk) 13:52, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

As it is like a contradictory statement a reliable source would help better for the proposed changes. R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 13:59, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:32, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok, right. Please add this photo in the history section which shows ezhava ancient ezhava kalari tradition, for explanation please see above-posted things.

Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 15:52, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

few reliable source : https://www.mathrubhumi.com/spirituality/specials/sabarimala-2019/features/cheerappanchira-moolasthanam-malikappuram-1.4337851

https://www.newindianexpress.com/magazine/2015/jan/24/In-Memory-of-a-Warrior-Deity-709189.html

Why are you reverting the edit request status? R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 16:13, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

 Partly done: The provided source doesn't mention their Kadathanad tradition so the image caption has changed as apposite to the main Cheerappanchira article. R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 16:29, 11 May 2021 (UTC) R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 16:29, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

This one would serve the purpose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIOD9NUKvYM , watch from 3mins

From the stream 3:23, it is heard they taught the Kadathanadan Poozhi style to Lord Ayyappa and no mention was made of their origin. As it is a caste-related article a scholarly material will definitely serve the purpose rather than legendary newspaper articles and video documentaries.WP:RS. R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 07:50, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

The page is spreading misinformation. Chirappanchira is a panicker Ezhava family from southern kerala ,also the page dont speak about alumootil channar,varanappilly house ,muloor house etc . and is spreading misinformation . Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 07:18, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cheerappan_Chira_Kalari,Room_used_by_Lord_Swamy_Ayyappa_when_he_was_staying_and_training_in_this_ancient_Thiyyar_Chekavar_kalari,which_trace_their_origin_to_Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma_worshipped_at_Shabarimala_is_from_cheerappanchira.jpg This is chirappanchira ezhava family . sree narayana guru's picture is worshipped there .and it is situated in alappuzha or southern kerala where the name of the community is ezhavas ,also recently information about varanappally family ,alumootio family got deleted by some people who want to spread misinformation. I request administrators to verify things multiple times before writing . Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 07:24, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

If you think the image caption is misleading, a discussion can be started regarding the same on Wikimedia Commons here. R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 05:02, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

This wikipedia page is providing misinformation.and showing one sided things only

The page lacks proper information about notable ezhava personalities and is totally misleading Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 14:54, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

That's what the page List of Ezhavas is for. R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 15:23, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Misleading how? Unless you tell us why it is misleading/biased we can't help to improve it.
SSSB (talk) 15:51, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

This page is spreading misinformation and is dragging some other community into the plot

The page is spreading misinformation and is very misleading since it is not talking about ,impotant personalities of ezhavas ,instead is talking about some.imaginary figures from some other community without showing full facts . the page is purposefully trying to spread one sided contents ,and is defaming a community.we would have to move legally ,if it remains uncorrected . so i request the administrators to make suitable changes ,because the details of alumootil family ,etc was removed recently by some fake news pedrators and about some misleading people and instead misinformation is spreading . also this page dont talk about panickers a prominent community inside ezhavas . so in all cases this page is completely spreading one sided misinformations. I hope admins would make proper changes before faving further actions. Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 07:14, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

As pointed out above, this article is about Ezhavas in general (culture, history etc.) Important indivduals are (generally) not within this article's scope, but within the scope of List of Ezhavas instead. If you feel that there is an Ezhava who warrants a mention on this page, please bring up that specific example, as it is not clear which important personalities you wish to add. Likewise, could you specify which specific imaginary figures you are talking about. If you think that this page is missing facts, then please list (with wp:reliable sources) facts you would like to be added to the article.

I completely reject the notion that this page is being deliberately biased or is defaming to the community. You ask Wikipedians to make suitable changes, but I cannot do this unless you tell us specificly and explictly what you would like to see added/removed. Please phrase requests in the form of "change x to y" or "add x to y".

Finally, threating legal action will not get you anywhere.
SSSB (talk) 08:50, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 July 2021

I would like to state that the citation of the image you have published in the history is false and from an unverified source.please change the citation of the image in the history. Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 18:53, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

The image of chirappanchira kalari from the history section is showing a misleading and unverified website please look into that and make necesaary changes. Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 19:10, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Please explain the issue with the image. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:18, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

The citation of the image is false Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 00:40, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

"[[File:Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira.jpg|thumb" the above is propogated with a false amd unverified citation and non matching source Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 08:50, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 July 2021 (2)

I would like to remove the second image called chogan.jpg as it is sterorypical instead add i.ages from verified source https://i2.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Picture1-15.jpg Source : fom the book by L.k iyer and source is provided with it Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 18:59, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: We cannot use copyrighted images, same as below. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:15, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 July 2021 (3)

I would like to add one more verified image image . " https://i2.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Picture1-16.jpg Source: an ezhava family from the early 20th " century from the book "glimpses of travancore ". Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 19:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: We cannot use copyrighted images owned by others. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021

I would like to remove the content "The Malabar Thiyyar group have claimed a higher ranking in the Hindu caste system than do the others, although from the perspective of the colonial and subsequent administrations they were treated as being of similar rank" from this page as this is misleading in all ways in a page called "ezhavas" as this is itself is a claim without validity or relevance here , and is going to unnecessary topics ans is creating a negative atmosphere regarding a community. Also i would like to note that the description about a community or page of a community shouldn't be misused for political disputes. So please remove it as it is totally irrelavent and invalid in a page called "ezhavas ". Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 01:41, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant. The sentence is also sourced, so it is a claim that is verified.
SSSB (talk) 10:45, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021 (2)

I would like to remove the image ""[[File:Young Thiyyar gentleman in British service holding title of Amsham Adhikari,Rao Bahadur and Menon in south malabar.jpg|thumb|A Thiyya man from the late 18th century in British service who held the titles of Rao Bahadur, Menon and Amsham Adhikari]] as it is misleading in a page called ezhavas amd it not relevant here . Such images should be added in a separate page of the community. This is misleading in a page called "ezhavas" Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 01:56, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant.
SSSB (talk) 10:46, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021 (3)

I would like to remove the image

File:A Thiyyar Moopan Painting.jpg

Painting of Thiya Moopan, a village headman from Thiyya caste.

From the section since it is irrelevant in a page called "ezhavas " and i belive that a platform like wikipedia shouldnt be used for political disputes or to defame a community under some fake names . The page mentions about "ezhavas" while the information is about some others . Some people are trying to create unenecesaary controversy or publicity using some other name . The page is about ezhavas and the administrator should make sure that the information given in this page is about ezhavas rather than some others who want to create controversy. I can say this because i am a part of this community and i feel

1. The wikipedia page called " ezhavas " lacks most of the information about ezhavas . And is filled with the content of other community who is trying to defame or create a negative information . 2. In The wikipedia page called "ezhavas" , except one , all of the the images and other contents are created by some other community to gain publicity or to create controversy through the name or description of a community. Also i request the admin to take this into further consideration and only allow pictures or information of ezhava caste in "ezhava "page and dont give others history or others information as ezhavas . Please consider this in future too. The information about ezhavas should only be provided in an ezhava page . Others should create their own page . Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 02:23, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant.

A platform like Wikipedia shouldn't be used for political disputes (apart from to document them) but I don't see how this image's inclusion contributes to that, or is defamatory.

If you feel that it is inappropriate for Wikipedia to consider Thiyyar and Ezhavas as synomous, please start a WP:SPLIT discussion.
SSSB (talk) 10:51, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

SSSB, I don't know about splitting, but Redbutterfly0987 has a point regarding the images, the images are almost entirely about Thiyyars. It should be addressed. 2409:4073:41A:DC51:7C4F:9AC1:95B3:FB25 (talk) 11:45, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Splitting is not going to happen and has been discussed here. I think it is quite reasonable for someone to argue the usage of images with unverifiable captions to support the supremacy over the other. The images and their captions might a part of POV work and should be scrutinized. R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 12:21, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

That wasn't Redbutterfly0987's point, their point was that Thiyyar and Ezhava are not synonymous, but Wikipedia's stance is that they are. They are just regional names for the same group. Therefore, as far as Wikipedia is concerned, it a Thiyyar image is an Ezhava image. And even if that were not the case, I count 4-3 in favour of Thiyyar, which is as close as you are going to get with 7 images.
SSSB (talk) 12:54, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Irrelavant and outdated infirmation

I would like to remove the sentence "Thiyyar dynasties such as the Mannanar existed in Kerala. " from the article since it is very much irrelevant in a page called "ezhava" . Also there is clearly no need of mentioning it in a page called "ezhava" when the page itself mentions that the claim is in dispute also recent govt order have granted separate identity to both communities . So in such a sensitive situation it is extremely unacceptable such writing in a page called "ezhavas". Also i humbly request to unbiased administrators to allow only images and information related to ezhava in an ezhava page, as otherwise it is potraying the community negatively in its own page , which might be rare among wikipedia pages . I hope administrators wouod have understood the sensitivity of such an issue in community ridden indian society and i request administrators to make sure that the content of the page is relatable to the hading "Ezhava " provided . Otherwise it would come under defaming the name of a community . I hope unbiased administrators would take necessary steps by understanding the sensitivity of the issue . Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 08:17, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

References

 Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant. Also see my repsonses to some of your previous edit requests above
SSSB (talk) 10:52, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021 (4)

{{subst:trim|1= "I would like to remove the image [[File:Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira.jpg|thumb" as this is a false image and the source amd citation shown in this image is mismatching . Also the image is very misleading as such an image is not seen in any source and also the description of the image is very much misleading as it talks about "thiyyar " and such an image or decsription is not mentioned in any of the sourves available including the official site of chirappanchira family or any credible sources.so i humbly request to the admins to make necessary changes as soon as possible as a platform like Wikipedia need to be protected from vandalism .

}} Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 08:46, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant. Also see my repsonses to some of your previous edit requests above
SSSB (talk) 10:54, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

High level of vandalism propogating through this page - if allowed like this it will create more issues .

I would like to bring into the notice of admin that high level of vandalism is propogating throuh this page with/ without the support of admins I would like to make the situation a bit clear before you ask for formats . 1. The heading of this page is "Ezhava" ,while the irony is that in the first pragraph itself 2 images are being conpared i dont know the reason for that . and one is the image of a thiyyar girl .and the second one is the image of a farmer ezhava couple while the page dont specifies any separate occupation or race or any distinctiveness of the both . so it is clear that this is a propogamda to create stereotypes or a form.of racism that too when other images of ezhavas are available which is a big cyber offense . Also the same page was criticised for spreading a cropped image of thiyyas as ezhavas that too in the comparing section .later it got removed after heavy critics. 2. Second point . The page is providing an outdated citation and with the help of that is trying to defame both ezhava and one other community . we can clealry say that because we are natives and can defenitely understand the emotional sentiments or consequences that may happen after propogating a big vandalism through a playform like wikipedia 3. If thiyyas and ezhavas are exactly same according to admin then what is the reason for specifically mentioning thiyyas and ezhavas in certain areas? So indont know the intention behind it . But the fact is that the second paragraph itself mentions that thiyyas do claim upper status in hindu heirarchy than others and ironically the page is spreading images of thiyyas only in a page called ezhavas . so if you consider both as exactly same then remove the separate mentions of thiyyas and ezhavas . also the page itself mentions dispute beetween ezhavas and thiyyas. So i would like to know the point in giving lot of thiyya images and one stereotype ed painting of ezhava couple in a page called "ezhava " while the page itself mentions dispute at the end that means all of the images in this page are related to dispute . An eg is given below . https://malayalam.samayam.com/local-news/kannur/thiyyas-are-not-ezhavas-says-theeyyakshemasabha/articleshow/80742726.cms

Also i would like to point out that there is already a page called thiyya in wikipedia so i dont see ezhava photos there . these mentioned facts clealry states that about 70 percent images and contents provided in this page is heavily vandalised and influenced and is filled with disputed claims . so i humbly request admin to take some time and read the whole article of this page and please understand what is the page trying to do . 

Also in in the history section , the image of chirappanchira kalari family provided is totally fake as the image is leading to a site called thiyyavamsam of kadathanadan tradition. While the description is some other .the souce provided is also invalid. And the page is abusing one other community too. 3. Also in a page called ezhava except one all images are from thiyya community who have dispute with ezhavas as mentioned by the page itself . so it is a big evidence to point out the attempts of vandalisation happended in this page . in short this is a page with disputed claims. Other wise the title of the page need to be changed to thiyyas rather than using our name 'ezhava' especially when dispute is there . This page is also talking bad about others communities . While we "ezhava " as per the name of this page dont want to indulge or participate in the defamation of others through our name . Inshort this page is deliberately, trying to misuse the name of 'ezhava' for political purpose of some others. 4. Now on a closing note i would like to mention that as a member of the community as per name of this page ,i can clearly say that this article is the most vandalised article on wikipedia working under some hidden agenda to defame and abuse mainly 3 communities namboodiries ,nairs and ezhavas by using the name of 'ezhavas '. Either with the support or by misleading the adminstrators for sure. As per lot of people pointed out ,one or more people are deliberately working behind vandalising the page of different communities in kerala ,so as 'ezhavas'. I would like to make this in attention of the administrators and other readers that please protect your self from misleading contents and misappropriation. Also i would like to say that we all are extremely humilated and hurted by the intellectually weak and cherry picked at the same time stereotyped content of this page. This is indeed a serious issue which should be reported to more higher authorities to prevent heavily disputed and vandalised contents through a great platform like wikipedia . Also we are planning to take possible legal actions against such defamations and stereotypings made by this page and for misusing name of ezhavas. The thiyyas and ezhavas are people who are living in different geolocations and have extremely different cultures. I dont know through which angle you are comparing with others and defaming ezhavas in a page called ezhavas unless someone have an intention to purposely do cyber bullying of these communities. So as i mentioned ,these images are cherrypicked and uncomparable related to the disputes mentioned in the page itself . so we would like to move to further actions and complaints if these facts remained vandalised again . and this not any legal threat but fight for justice and truth and an example of fight against cyber bullying ,stereotyped racism and misusal of identity and other online crimes which are spreading nowadays . remember justice delayed is justice denied . so i hope the adminsitrator will take the emotions of these communities seriously as it is tarnishing the name of different communities through this page .It is not a simple issue in community ridden indian society ,again i hope admin understand the intensity and seriousness of the situation . No one can misuse the name of a community for propoganda and it is unjustifiable,otherwise the editors are requested to change the name of the article from ezhavas to some other like "propoganda of caste fanatics " or thiyyas or any things else ,rather than tarnishing our name ,else i am compelled to make it in your kind attention that the admin or the people who allowed this kind of stereotypes would be solely responsible for the defamations ,humilation and other afer effects that happens . waiting for a justified and satisfactory repsonse from admin .thankyou. Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 13:36, 3 July 2021 (UTC)