Talk:Gupta Empire

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system of government deeptrivia (talk) 01:23, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Map

The map depicts Gupta Empire ruling greater Sistan and Afghanistan. Its totally false :

1. Sistan was one of the most important provinces of the Sassanid empire and it was governed for almost 700 years by Suren-Pahlav Clan.

2. On the given period of time Sassanids were in their first Golden era the period that Shapur II annexed many cities in nowadays Pakistan and western India to his already vast empire. After him the successive rules were so protective of their eastern territory.

3. See Indo-Sassanian.

Amir85 10:05, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello Amir85,

   I did not post the map, but out of curiousity, I would like to discuss it. First a clarification: you are referring to the map that is currently posted on the Gupta page, correct? 

   Now that that is out of the way, on that map, no part of Seistan appears under Gupta control. The Western-most territory is that of Sind, a part of Greater India and under Guptan rule after the defeat of the Sakas. Regarding Afghanistan, from what I can tell, no part of it is featured as part of the Gupta Empire, as Takshasila and the Kabul Valley are recorded to have remained under the direct rule of the Kushans. It should be noted though that Guptan records mention campaigns extending to Bahlika which refers to Afghanistan. 

  Sassanid control on the subcontinent is recorded to have taken place following their defeat and reinstatement of the Kushans as vassals. Just to clarify, what does your research indicate as the eastern-most region/city on the subcontinent that came under Sassanid control? Are there actual inscriptions or imperial records to indicate control in these regions or is the evidence again numismatic?

For example, did the Saka Kshatraps of Gujarat pay homage to the Sassanids? As far as I know, the Kabul Valley and the parts of Pakistan (i.e. Takshasila) under Kushan rule did, but not Gujarat under the Kshatraps. Moreover, the Kshatraps themselves became independent of the Kushans prior to the rise of the Sassanids. I would be interested in taking a look at some articles you could point me out to that have a more definitive boundary for Sassanid control on the Subcontinent. As you know, there is insufficient research out there on this and other subcontinental topics.

Also, the article on Indo-Sassanians erroneously credits the Indo-Sassanians with continuous rule in parts of the subcontinent from the fifth through tenth centuries. After all, the Sassanids themselves were extinguished following the death of Yazdegerd III and the escape of Feroz into China. What evidence is there to indicate that they are connected to the Hindu Shahi Dynasty that ruled the Kabul Valley and the Punjab until the 10 century?

Lastly, could you please refer me to some evidence that establishes the Indo-Sassanians as a separate and independent dynasty from the Imperial Persian line? From what I understand, the Kushanshahs were merely the reinstated Kushan dynasts. Anyhow, I am looking forward to your response.

Regards,

Devanampriya

Contributions

This part of the page is in need of much work. The language here is quite confusing, and I can only hope an expert can come in to expand upon this section further.

Origin of Guptas

The Arya Manjushri Mul Kalpa, is a history of India covering the period 700 BCE to 770 AD. The history was a Buddhist Mahayana work, by a Tibetan scholar, and was composed sometime in the 8th century CE.

K P Jayaswal brought this material out from above book in his eminently scholarly book :An Imperial history of India C 700 BC – C 770 AD. K P Jayaswal has spotted and brought out the fact that the second Guptas, (Chandra Gupta II, Samudra Gupta etc circa 200 BCE to 600 BCE) were Jats, who came originally form the Mathura area. They were of the “ Dharan” goth/Gotra, as shown by the inscription of the Prabhadevi Plate, where she gives her father’s (and her) goth as Dharan. The Dharan Jats still can be found in the U.P Mathura region and they proudly point to their ancient glory, of how their forefathers ruled Hindustan.

According to him Gupta is said to have been a Mathura-Jata (Sanskrit- Jata-vamsa). Jata-vamsa, that is, Jata Dynasty stands for Jarta, that is, Jat. That the Guptas were Jat; we already have good reasons to hold (JBORS, XIX. p. 1U). His Vaisali mother is the Lichchhavi lady.

The historian Bhim Singh Dahiya has proved by applying “Grimm's law of Variation” that in Indo-European languages the alphabet “J” changes to “G”. Due to this law the Chinese call Jats as “Getae” and Germans call them “Got”, “Gaut” or “Goth”. The Proto-Germanic name Gaut changes to Gupt as under:

Gapt is considered to be a corruption of Gaut (Gaut→Gavt→Gaft→Gapt, cf. eftir and eptir, "after" in Old Norse). Gapt changed to Gupt in India.

When Chandragupta II, Vikramaditya married his daughter with a Vakataka prince he called tribe as "Dharan" which is a gotra of Jats even today. Skandagupta has written in an inscription of Junagarh that Gupta is a title, which means soldier or a chief. Hence Bhim Singh Dahiya concludes that Guptas were Jats.

The above facts may help to find the origin of Guptas and need further research.--burdak 17:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

"Classical anarchy"

Can someone please expand on this? I don't understand. Tuncrypt 02:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Guptas never ruled Punjab and Sind

Gupta empire was confined to central and north-eastern part of modern India. Gupatas never ruled Pujab, Sind and parts of Rajisthan, as it is shown in the map.

True map of the Gupta empire

http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map22gup.htm