User talk:Barmispain

An editor recently expressed a concern that this account was a "sockpuppet" of some come contributor called GegenIsrael. Well, this was untrue and I have now removed the note. I have no idea who GegenIsrael is and I have absolutely no connection with him or her. If anyone would like to own up to adding this note this and enter into some discussion withe me (apparently the post left on my talk page was unsigned), I'll be willing to discuss it. The explanations accompanying this note are not very helpful to accused contributor. If anyone can help, I'd be obliged.Barmispain (talk) 16:31, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

My previous comments on the above note: Apparently, according to the note at the top of this page, an editor has expressed a concern that this account is a "sockpuppet" of some come contributor called GegenIsrael. Well, this is untrue and I'd like the note and the accusation removed by whoever put it there. I have no idea who GegenIsrael is and I have absolutely no connection with him or her. If anyone would like to own up to this and enter into some discussion withe me (apparently the post left on my talk page was unsigned), I'll be willing to discuss it. The explanations accompanying this note are not very helpful to accused contributor. If anyone can help, I'd be obliged.Barmispain (talk) 16:31, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Welcome!

Hello, Barmispain, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, like Robert Ayers (disambiguation), may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for page creation, and may soon be deleted.

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Proposed deletion of Robert Ayers (disambiguation)

The article Robert Ayers (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

only one link actually has an article - irrelevant disambig page

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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The page has been redirected, not deleted, and I did not redirect it. It is pointless having a disambiguation page to disambiguate between one article. If the second link is notable, create an article for him and then disambiguate. Ironholds (talk) 22:01, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Natalie Portman - Country of birth[edit]

To 4TheWynne -I thought addressing you by name was just being Wiki-friendly. Anyway, could you address the questions I pose. Could you please explain to me why you keep reverting an edit that I made to the article on Natalie Portman. Could you please address the relevant section in the article's Talk page, rather than make instantaneous deletions. Please note that Ms. Portman is noted as being "Israeli-born" in the main article, so why do you keep deleting the same fact in the info-box???Barmispain (talk) 10:54, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Porter

Hi you added that porter is a Jew, have you got a citation that supports that? Is he a follower of Judaism? Off2riorob (talk) 13:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps I made a mistake. I will check it out and provide a reference if I'm correct. Thanks for pointing it out.Barmispain (talk) 21:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

December 2010

Please stop adding unreferenced controversial biographical content to articles or any other Wikipedia page, as you did at David Jacobs (disc jockey), Aaron Porter, David Triesman, Baron Triesman, and Bill Maher. Content of this nature is in violation of Wikipedia policy. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Jayjg ^(talk) 18:12, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

• Shalom Jayjg, I think you are somewhat out of order in taking me to task for the abovementioned edits that I have carried out “in violation of Wikipedia policy”. In all four cases, all I did was to put the said individials into categories, in most cases, the fact that they were Jewish (actually, in the case of Aaron Porter, I was somewhat premature and I told another administrator who pointed this out that I would delete the entry , go back and check my facts). As I can see from your user page that you are familiar with the subject (i.e. Jewish ethnicity), though not perhaps the individuals themselves (being from another country), I think you will agree that one does not find references to each and ever entry in the various categories for the fact that the individual is Jewish – in several, there is no mention of his or her religion or ethnicity in the article itself, and the fact is only in categorization (Take Shimon Peres as an example – he is categorized as a Belaurasian Jew, a Jewish politician and a Polish Jew – yet the fact that he is Jewish is not refeenced). Futhermore, several other categorizations of an individual in general are similarly not necessarily referenced or even mentioned in an article. (The article on David Jacobs, for example, mentions that Jacobs was born in London and educated at Strand School and Jacobs is categorized as an “Old Strandian” – yet there is no evidence or reference for that particular fact.) I can cite several further examples.

Rather than warning me about being blocked from editing (which is hardly productive), perhaps you could advise me about how best to add a reference to information that is not actually in an article, but is worthy of inclusion in the “categories” section. BarmiSpainBarmispain (talk) 21:29, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi Barmispain. WP:BLP is very, very clear; you can't add these kinds of categories without reliable sourcing. It's really that simple. If you find other categories that aren't sourced, by all means remove them too, but do not use that as license to add still more unsourced categories. WP:BLP is likely Wikipedia's policy with the strictest enforcement. If you have reliable sourcing for this material, and it belongs in the article, then feel free to add it; however, if there's no real reason for adding the material, then it's likely the category is inappropriate too. Jayjg ^(talk) 04:41, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jayig, I read your reply and the Wikipedia biography instructions with great interest. I believe I have faithfully followed the rules in replacing the categorization for David Triesman and Bill Maher, having added references as to their ethnicity from reliable sources in their respective articles. (Actually, in the case of Maher, the information was already in the article, having been inserted a long time ago by others, but I added a further reference anyway. I'm still searching for sources verifying David Jacobs being Jewish (even though he is so well known in the UK as being involved in several Jewish and Zionist causes. If I find anything concrete, I will reinstate his categorization, too. Kol Hakavod.Barmispain (talk) 22:32, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

(from Jayjg's Talk: page)Hi Jayig, I read your reply and the Wikipedia biography instructions with great interest. I believe I have faithfully followed the rules in replacing the categorization for David Triesman and Bill Maher, having added references as to their ethnicity from reliable sources in their respective articles. (Actually, in the case of Maher, the information was already in the article, having been inserted a long time ago by others, but I added a further reference anyway. I'm still searching for sources verifying David Jacobs being Jewish (even though he is so well known in the UK as being involved in several Jewish and Zionist causes. If I find anything concrete, I will reinstate his categorization, too. Kol Hakavod.Barmispain (talk) 22:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Barmispain, you must add material only from reliable sources. nndb, for example, is not a reliable source. Also, let's keep the discussion in one place please, here is fine. Jayjg ^(talk) 03:02, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

• I'm sorry Jayjg (talk), I'm not being thick - or paranoid - but I'm really at a loss as to why you think the case for categorizing Bill Maher as an American Jew or as a Jewish Comedian is not already adequately set forth in the article. The article states "He was raised in his Irish American father's Catholic religion, remaining unaware that his mother was Jewish until his early teenage years." There is a reference from which this fact has been sourced. This is "^ "Interview With Bill Maher". CNN. 2002-05-24. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0205/24/lkl.00.html. Retrieved 2008-01-17" and there is also another reference, viz., ^ King, Larry (May 24, 2002). "CNN LARRY KING LIVE Interview With Bill Maher". CNN. . Retrieved April 23, 2010. "But I never even knew I was half-Jewish until I was a teenager." If Maher's mother was Jewish, he is Jewish. You can't get better than that. And this seems good enough in the case of so many other biographies. I notice further (though please don't allow the following comment to confuse the issue of his Jewishness) that Maher is categorized as an atheist and an agnostic DESPITE the fact that according to the references cited in the article, he categorically denies that he is either.Barmispain (talk) 11:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
  • For BLP purposes we need reliable sources that explicitly support the material cited to them. That means we need reliable sources that explicitly state he's Jewish. Not that his mother is Jewish, or that he's "half-Jewish", but that he's Jewish. And, strangely enough, even that is sometimes not good enough. For example, Ed Miliband has explicitly stated on several occasions that he's Jewish, but if you add Category:English Jews to his article, you will be quickly reverted. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:38, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
• Jayjg Jayg, I admire your patience in dealing with this, but I want to persevere and I want to understand. If what you mention above about Maher (i.e., that Maher himself said that his mother is Jewish) is not sufficient information to categorize him as Jewish, please give me an example of what you would accept as information that IS sufficient. What is "good enough"? In my country, the rabbis tell me that if you are born of a Jewish mother, you're Jewish. In fact, there is no other definite test. (What? Parents' ketubah? -[I'm being humorous.]) I agree with what you say about Ed Milliband - that the reference in his article to the ethnicity of his parents is not sourced, but I do notice that he IS categorized (not by me) in "Category:British people of Jewish descent" (Would something like this - "Category:American people of Jewish descent" - be appropriate for Maher?).

Another thing about Maher, if you will. Isn't the transcript of the CNN interview good evidence and a reliable source? And finally, so that you don't leave me guessing, can you please address the questions that I raised above about Bill Maher being categorized as "agnostic" and "atheist" - and David Jacobs being categorized as an "Old Strandian". It's all part of the understanding process. What worries me slightly about this conversation is that your (perhaps unintended) encouragement to me go looking at numerous other articles of personalities who have been categorized as Jews (of one sort or another) has led me notice that hardly ANY has ANY verifiable and reliable sourced reference to the fact of their Jewishness. Jerry Seinfeld, Tori Spelling, Samson Abramsky, Shimon Peres, Rafael Eitan are all examples and there are hundreds more. You wrote earlier to me "If you find other categories that aren't sourced, by all means remove them too". Well, following that advice may lead to a rapid depletion of the Jews in the various categories. I'd welcome your comments on this too.Barmispain (talk) 09:55, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

• • Well, I don't think it's that complicated, really. In order for someone to be considered "Jewish" on Wikipedia, there have to be reliable sources that say he is "Jewish". That's pretty much it. Regarding Miliband, he is descended from 4 Jewish grandparents, 2 Jewish parents, and has stated quite clearly that he is Jewish, and his Jewish identity is important to him, yet one still cannot (apparently) put him in Category:English Jews. To be honest, that's actually an error, he actually should be in Category:English Jews (or it should be deleted), but a group of editors are ignoring policy on that specific article. Also, there would be no issue at all in adding Maher to Category:American people of Jewish descent, since that's well documented in the article. And if you find other WP:BLP articles that include unsourced categories, by all means rapidly deplete them. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:15, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Who's who?

Hi Jayjg, I'm sure you remember me. We had correspondence a few months ago regarding supplying information and verifiable references regarding certain personalities' ethnicity, particularly their Jewishness. I think you were successful in frightening me in not doing anything more in this area, as I couldnt bring myself to delete all of the attributions of Jewish heritage from so many peoples biographies, as you told me so to do, where there was no reliable source. But now I have a question... I have seen information in articles which cites a reference for information to á book called "Who's Who". As it stands, I would reckin this a reliable source as it is a well-respected publication of biographies. The trouble is that the Who's Who website is one that requires a subscription and a password. So my question is - Does this site still constitute a certfiable source even if it is not GENERALLY available.Barmispain (talk) 21:18, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Barmispain. You have new messages at Jayjg's talk page.
Message added 17:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Editing policy and alleged vandalism

Hi DK4, You recently reverted one of my posts about Tomasz Majewski alleging "vandalism". You should be aware that vandalism is defined in Wikipedia as "the addition, removal, or change of content in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia". I admit I didn't add a reference for the information I added (in fact, there is no way of referencing information which simply consists of the inclusion of new categories at the foot of the Wikipedia page) - there was certainly no attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia. My action should not have been described as "vandalism". I'd appreciate your comments. Barmispain (talk) 06:20, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Your contributed article, Thomas Cahill (Author)

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Speedy Deletion of Thomas Cahill (author)

Thank you, Reddogssix, for spotting that this inclusion was in fact of a duplication. As you can tell, I had already realized this and reversed my entry, but I did not know how to delete the page that I had created itself. Thanks for your timely intervention.Barmispain (talk) 12:55, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Kitniyot

Hi. I've updated the article to use your source, and started a discussion at Talk:Kitniyot, so other interested editors can participate. As a quick note, to leave me a comment on my talk page, please click the underlined +, so it is added at the bottom of my talk page. Superm401 - Talk 18:17, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

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