Talk:Suicide methods

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Suicide methods article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8: 400 days

The Wikimedia Foundation's Trust and Safety team maintains a list of crisis support resources.
If you see a threat of harm on Wikipedia, please follow these steps.

Template:Vital article

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Suicide methods. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Suicide methods at the Reference desk.

While you may consider this article depressing or disturbing, please remember this page is only for discussing improvements to the article. Wikipedia is not censored, but articles do have to meet certain standards.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Deletion discussions:

Speedy Keep, 17 June 2012, see discussion.
Speedy Keep, 2 December 2011, see discussion.
Speedy Keep, 29 April 2009, see discussion.
Speedy Keep, 21 May 2008, see discussion.
Speedy Keep, 19 May 2008, see discussion.
Keep, 17 April 2007, see discussion.
Keep, 12 September 2006, see discussion.
Keep, 15 May 2006, see discussion.
Keep, 21 October 2005, see discussion.

Hesitation wound was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 28 July 2011 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Suicide methods. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Death: Suicide B‑class Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Suicide task force (assessed as Top-importance).

Psychology B‑class Mid‑importance

	Psychology portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Medicine B‑class Low‑importance

	Medicine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the Manual of Style for medicine-related articles and that biomedical information in any article use high-quality medical sources. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine.MedicineWikipedia:WikiProject MedicineTemplate:WikiProject Medicinemedicine articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Hulings1 (article contribs). This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ln168282 (article contribs).

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 January 2019 and 16 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Edwarchng, Chung.esther (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Edwarchng, Chung.esther, Mdoherty44.

Suicide Helplines

I know that wikipedia believes that people have the right to search everything and I am for that. However, I think it would be best to at least show at the top a suicide prevention hotline warning. People who are searching for this may be conspiring to end their lives and we should do the best we can to stop that. 177.18.225.191 (talk) 16:40, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes please do this. I am in a dark place and this article is not helping. 172.92.9.6 (talk) 05:26, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This has been discussed countless times before and the consensus was to not display the hotline on the article itself. However, the talk page contains various resources. It has also shown that most people arrive here through a search engine, which will most likely already contain hotlines/resources. -- ChamithN (talk) 07:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you feel you may physically harm yourself, or others: Click here for a list of crisis support resources. Kolya Butternut (talk) 18:09, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request to Suffocation section - Argon while inert is denser than air and therefore does not work with a suicide bag

I don't know where to put this - and the main article is protected from editing - so I will put it here and hope it helps.

(a) Argon is incorrectly listed as an inert gas that can be used with a suicide bag. It is necessary that the inert gas be less dense than air for the suicide bag to function to exclude air/oxygen and also flush away exhaled CO2. Argon is denser/heavier than air and does not work with a suicide bag. The bag fills from the top down from the flowing gas piped into the suicide bag. Then after filling the bag from the top, the ongoing excess inert gas flow spills out the partly open neck of the bag. This maintains an ongoing barrier to stop any room air / oxygen flowing into the open lower neck of the bag. It also flushes away out the open neck of the bag any exhaled CO2 which is also denser/heavier than air. This way the bag is continually kept full of the less dense inert gas, and free of CO2. This works with inert gases Helium and Nitrogen which are less dense than air. It does not work with inert gas Argon. Denser than air argon will just spill out the open neck of the bag and will not fill it from the top down and will not exclude room air/oxygen. The bag will actually continually allow in less dense fresh room air/oxygen as the denser argon flows down out the open neck of the bag. There are just 2 references that I have found describing an attempt with argon. As expected neither resulted in a fatality, in contrast to the very many demonstrated cases with Helium or nitrogen where one deep breath led to unconsciousness and death followed within approx 10 minutes.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352260222_Suicide_Attempt_by_Inhalation_of_Argon_Gas

Tincu, R.C.; Cobilinschi, C.; Tomescu, D.; Ghiorghiu, Z.; Macovei, R.A. (2016). Suicide attempt after argon gas inhalation – Case report. Toxicology Letters, 258(), S109–. doi:10.1016/j.toxlet.2016.06.1454

Argon is non toxic ( unlike eg butane or Carbon monoxide) so without almost complete exclusion of Oxygen, fatal suffocation will not result and it should not be mistakenly listed here with Helium and Nitrogen as inert gases used with a suicide bag for suffocation. Only less dense ( than air) inert gases work in this arrangement.

(b) method restrictions The low pressure/low flow helium cylinders originally used in this method were intended as disposable helium for party balloons. They are now all filled with only 80% helium and 20% air, so they cannot be used for suicide any more.

Regular high pressure helium cylinders cannot be used for this method as suitably low flow regulators and flowmeters are not available. Regular nitrogen/argon etc flowmeter controllers yield much too high minimum flow rates for helium and are not usable.

Given that gas suppliers are aware of the nitrogen / suicide bag method, it is now extremely difficult for private individuals to obtain a cylinder of nitrogen, for which there are few uses by a private individual without eg HVAC certification.

(c) Suffocation / hanging - edit request : A ligature does not simply block the oxygen carrying carotid arteries for blood flow to be interrupted. The ligature can be fatal without being so tight as to block the carotid arteries.

- The use of a ligature first compresses the jugular veins and blocks blood flow from leaving the head, at a much lower force than that required to block the entry of fresh oxygenated blood through the deeper seated carotid arteries or the even much higher force required to occlude the airway.

This engorgement of blood in the head and blocking of blood drainage is the reason for the characteristic petechiae or burst blood vessels seen in such cases. The incoming blood is blocked because it cannot overcome the back-pressure caused by the blocked drainage veins. There is no way for the blood to get back out of the head once the veins are blocked. That is why the oxygenated blood flow input stops. The veins are blocked - then with higher force the arteries may be blocked, then with yet higher force the airway is completely blocked.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Riomhaire1 (talk • contribs) 17:49, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this suggestion. I have removed the word Argon from the article, and the unsourced and WP:CHALLENGEd claim about the carotid arteries. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:54, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request - Poisoning - include Sodium nitrite, Nembutal and anti-emetics

The Peaceful Pill handbook has extensive discussion of use of Sodium nitrite for suicide, including the various necessary Prescription only anti-emetics. This is all publicly well known now, and as a result pure sodium nitrite is now very difficult to obtain by a private individual, though it is legal to import and possess because it is a standard food curing agent although normally used at only 6% concentration where it is no longer fatally toxic.

Another of the primary agents used is oral Nembutal / pheno-barbital -- both in the Peaceful pill handbook and in Swiss clinics. Discussion of prescription anti-emetics and the difficulty of sourcing or importing veterinary nembutal is discussed.

Neither of these "primary" poisons listed in the Peaceful Pill handbook and similar literature are even mentioned in the present wiki article - though they are widely known and counter measures are all already in place to protect the public. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riomhaire1 (talk • contribs) 18:09, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that this article needs to go into a lot of specifics or name every possible substance. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:42, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sure it does -cspan02 (talk) 22:42, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello 2600:100A:B032:BFE4:6F2C:CAE0:9608:6FE4 (talk) 08:52, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shooting - edit to include bilateral loss of vision / blindness after gunshot to temporal bone severing optic nerves

Shooting - edit to include permanent bilateral loss of vision / blindness after gunshot to temporal bone severing optic nerves. The standard Hollywood gunshot to the temple (side of the head) leads to instant blindness in both eyes as the two optic nerves are easily severed by the bullet but little other life threatening brain damage results and it is rarely immediately fatal. Permanent blindness as a high risk outcome from any shooting attempt is something that should be listed.

Permanent hearing loss is also a likely outcome from any shooting attempt.

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I am a new user to this website so I do not know all the correct procedures so I ask for your patience. I added several requests for edit to this semi-protected article on the TALK page associated with it. First I expect they may need to be discussed to get a consensus. Please refer to the items I added to the talk page for refs etc. All I am trying to do here is to flag the additions I made to the talk page so that they will be read and considered.\Thank you.

What I think should be changed:
Why it should be changed:
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Riomhaire1 (talk) 18:48, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: I am not completely clear on what the change requested is. But to add information on outcomes of unsucessful scuicide would require WP:Consensus to be added. Alternatively Suicide attempt might be a better place to request this sort of addition. Terasail ^[✉️] 13:47, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add the US National Suicide Hotline phone number to all pages regarding suicide. 800-273-8255 174.240.191.165 (talk) 07:05, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: This is actually a controversial edit, so you'll need to discuss first with other editors. Please open a new section here and start a discussion. ––FormalDude talk 08:10, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit suggestion 01 Sep 2022 – lethality in the USA of suicidal acts with a firearm

'In the United States suicide by firearm is the most lethal method of suicide resulting in 90% of suicide fatalities...'

I read this to mean that in the USA 90% of suicide fatalities are caused by a firearm, which clearly is incorrect and not the aim of the editor. Hence, I suggest rewording it to read:

'In the United States suicide by firearm is the most lethal method of suicide – 90% of suicidal acts with a firearm were fatal...' 82.15.254.27 (talk) 20:01, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Thanks. ––FormalDude talk 20:06, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

By who exactly

The article say’s under the means reduction section that: “Choosing not to restrict access to suicide methods is considered unethical.[13]”. But never specifies who considers it unethical.

And should the counter point not also be said? How some consider restricting access to suicide methods to be unethical? 2600:1700:BA0:FC40:286A:DCAA:2579:794D (talk) 17:48, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I added an in-text attribution. ––FormalDude (talk) 19:06, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that is a widely held viewpoint. There are very few people who believe that it is inherently unethical to restrict access to suicide methods. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:46, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

JUST DO NOT SUSCIDE CALL FOR HELP 59.180.186.140 (talk) 05:55, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:NOTFORUM. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 11:20, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 January 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Just write cowards commit suicide, and make an easier version of all the information wait nvm. Make a short answer with the longer answer. 2A00:801:4A9:A6C:1DD7:7F29:1532:167 (talk) 12:16, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: for obvious reasons small jars tc 12:24, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there no help line provided

There should be a help line provided at top of this Wikipedia site 2003:C6:3F2A:ED00:5D7A:A8F0:A38B:1E8A (talk) 02:41, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a link at the top of this page, where it says "The Wikimedia Foundation's Trust and Safety team maintains a list of crisis support resources."

Additionally, it looks like 95% of people who arrive at this page are coming from web search engines, which means they have likely seen a message about their local crisis line(s) in the last few seconds. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:53, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Firearm control

Firearm control does not suppress the number of suicides, only suicide by firearm. 216.119.170.46 (talk) 16:03, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What suggestions do you have for improving the article? And what reliable source backs the assertion you are making? --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 22:30, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Typo on number of deaths

Under List > Pesticide, it says in US pesticides are used in about 12 suicides. Based on the cited source information, I believe 12 million was meant. 172.102.168.219 (talk) 03:19, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please elucidate. Suicide by pesticide is very rare in the US; it's far more common elsewhere. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 03:47, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]