Talk:1960 World Series

Bobby Richardson

Why does it say Bobby Richardson Was The 1925 World Series MVP Whean His Team Didn't even play in Th World Series that year and it says he was the MVP of The World Series even though his team lost? I'm not gonna delete it just yet, I need someother people to it for themselves so than it will be approved to be deleted.--Sonicobbsessed 19:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Richardson was indeed voted the Series MVP despite being on the losing team. The 1925 you're referring to was the year of the last Pirates championship. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 22:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Coates and Shantz

An irony about the defensive snafu with neither Bill Skowron nor Jim Coates covering first is that Bobby Shantz, whom Coates had just replaced on the mound, was widely recognized (several Gold Gloves) as one of the best fielding pitchers in the game. It's too bad for the Yanks that they hadn't left Shantz in there for just one more batter. WHPratt (talk) 16:25, 13 April 2011 (UTC) Well, a few more batters, I should have said. WHPratt (talk) 18:01, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Observing the replay (from the supposedly-lost footage), I do see Jim Coates heading to 1st, but his route wasn't quite direct; there was a slight bend in it toward the 2nd-base side of the straight line to 1st base (presumably because of confusion about fielding the ball), and although Coates continued on to 1st base (where he would have covered), that bend presumably delayed him enough to cause him not to arrive in time to receive the ball and cover 1st. Skowron was obviously pulled away from 1st in the act of fielding the ball as Coates ran on past him towards 1st, and we see Skowron had to hold onto the ball because it was too late for that play at 1st. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.47 (talk) 21:24, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

More about Mantle in top of 9th

I do see the remark that if Mantle had been out (on the play where he got back to 1st base when the batter was already out), the run (9th run for Yankees) would still have counted if it had scored earlier. Mantle's play still stood as monumental for the moment because the top of the 9th continued (although it soon ended when the next batter hit into a force play), so I made a note to that effect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 14:19, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

True the run would have counted so long as McDougald had touched the plate prior to the third out. Had Nelson tagged Mantle out, it would have been a "reverse force double play" (see the rule book). No RBI for the batter, but still a run, as the last out was not a forceout. Now, had Nelson started a successful "363" (1b-ss-1b) double play, the run would have been negated. Aside: It may seem peculiar that Dale Long reached third on his own and was only then replaced by a pinch runner, but Casey Stengel seemed to like having a big guy going from first to second to complicate a possible double play via intimidation, even if the man wasn't fast. He used to use Bob Cerv or Hank Bauer as a pinch runner at first with just this in mind. I suspect that's why he left Long in the game, but felt that McDougald had a better chance or coming home on a sac fly or grounder. WHPratt (talk) 14:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I have also seen the question as to why Mantle was so close to 1st on the play which ended with him sliding back into 1st. (Remember that a force was in effect until the batter was put out.) Although I cannot answer it, I have recalled seeing the following situation which was on some major-league baseball broadcast as a "side show" (something like "you make the call"):

Short film clip showed a runner on his hands and knees, touching 1st base with hands, and with feet pointing toward 2nd base. Also in the frame was a fielder (probably the 1st baseman) with the ball; not shown was the batter-runner. There had to be less than 2 out when this play started. The question was how many were retired on this play (notice the fielder had a chance to get 2 outs). Based on what was shown, it was explained that only 1 out was obtained on this play, because the fielder touched the base before tagging the runner; touching the base put the batter out and instantly removed the force, and the fielder is shown disgusted when he realized what he did. I don't know where that play came from, but it too could generate the question of why the runner was so close to 1st. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 18:06, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

If the firstbaseman fields a grounder and a runner at first still hasn't left the base, the fielder can get a double play by first tagging the runner and then touching first base. The fact that the runner is still standing on first doesn't matter; he's "forced" and can be put out by a tag as well as a throw to second base. However, if the fielder touches the base before tagging the runner, the force is off and the runner can stay there. WHPratt (talk) 18:54, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Still available among the references for the 1960 World Series article on Wikipedia is NY Times article "50 years later, a slide still confounds". There is a hint that the grounder reached Rocky Nelson (1st baseman) in a hurry, so does it follow that Mantle didn't have time to get very far toward 2nd base? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 17:05, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

It's possible that Mantle couldn't get a good look at the ball with the first baseman in front of him, and didn't get any help from his base coaches. If it had been a low line drive and were caught, he'd have to get back to first to avoid getting doubled off. A dilemma for him. WHPratt (talk) 14:15, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I just reviewed the DVD of the game: Mantle was a few steps off first and Nelson was close to the bag, so Mickey had a clear view of the ball. However, the play was so quick that he didn't have much time to pick up on whether it was a liner or a grounder. Mantle must haved thought it handn't touched down, as he was already moving back towards first when Nelson -- who had to spin around -- got the ball. Nelson looked towards second and seemed astonished to find Mick still nearby, and Mantle simply outmaneuvered Rocky before he got his wits back, diving back to first in a head-first hook slide and getting his left arm on the bag. It seems as though Nelson would have had time to tag Mantle and then complete the double play at first (which would have ended the game) if only he hand't been required to turn around. By the way, the first base coach (#35 -- I think it was Ralph Houk) didn't give any visible signals (though he may have been shouting instructions) other than hitting the dirt to indicate that Mantle should slide once he was already doing so. Of course, once Mantle knew it was a grounder, he should have taken off for second and tried to get in a rundown to allow the run to score. Mel Allen noted that it was Yogi Berra's record 36th RBI in Series history. WHPratt (talk) 06:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I have now seen that play myself. Even the game commentator noted that it happened quickly and McDougald didn't have time to move a long distance from 3rd toward home. But McDougald scored and that tied the game, 9-9. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.47 (talk) 22:02, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I have to wonder whether McDougald really scored in time to beat the potential third out at first base. Remember that he, like Mantle, had to worry about being doubled off had Nelson caught the ball on the fly. As there was no isolated camera on McDougald, we'd have to rely upon witness testimony. Would Dale Long have come up short, and would a different pinch-runner gotten there faster? Didn't matter but fun to speculate on the ensuingargument had that been a double play! WHPratt (talk) 16:41, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

"In what, at the moment, stood as a monumental play, Mantle, seeing he had no chance to beat a play at second (and thinking the ball was caught in the air), scurried back to first and avoided Nelson's tag (which would have been the third out) as Gil McDougald (pinch-running for Long) raced home to tie the score at 9."

I have a problem with this. If Mantle really thought that Nelson had grabbed a fly ball, then he should have given no thought at all to second base and beating a play there, so the "seeing" and "thinking" clauses are mutually exclusive. Did Mantle ever reveal in an interview whether he thought he was avoiding being doubled off, or in fact had made a brilliant split-second decision in sneaking back on a ground out? WHPratt (talk) 14:23, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Who as MVP?

2nd paragraph has players in this series who were MVPs (past, present, or future). How does Bill Mazeroski get included here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 18:01, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I think this is probably just a typo. I'm going to correct it for now. HavelockWilltravel (talk) 14:07, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

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