Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eid-ul-Milad-un-Nabi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. While there's a clear consensus this is a notable topic in and of itself, there's no present consensus on a move; this can, however, be continued at the article's talk page. (non-admin closure) Goldsztajn (talk) 10:49, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eid-ul-Milad-un-Nabi

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~~Redundant content fork of Mawlid. The term Eid-ul-Milad-un-Nabi is just a subcontinetal term for Mawlid, refers to the same thing. Kermanshehi (talk) 14:11, 12 January 2024 (UTC)~~ Sockstrike ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 00:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 January 12. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 14:26, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 15:01, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:01, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:01, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:02, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bangladesh-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:02, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
COMMENT This event or festival is indeed a BIG EVENT for Barelvi branch of Islam and is celebrated in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Deobandi and some other branches of Islam don't agree with celebrating it. Differences within Islamic branches aside, due consideration and respect should be given to a huge number of Barelvi population within Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. Since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and already allows a huge number of articles on different points of views for different religious branches for all religions including Barelvi point of view, I am hoping that this deletion nomination is not taken lightly on this AfD forum...Ngrewal1 (talk) 18:42, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- That this festival is prominent for Barelvis is not the point I am making. The point is that this festival and Mawlid are the same thing. Either this article is deleted for becomes a redirect to Mawlid. Eid Milad an-Nabi is just a Bengali/Hindi/Urdu name for the Arabic term Mawlid. The introduction of Mawlid literally goes :Mawlid (Arabic: مَولِد), also known as Eid-e-Milad an-Nabi (Arabic: عید ميلاد النبي, romanized: ʿīd mīlad an-nabī, lit. 'feast of the birth of the prophet'), is an...... Kermanshehi (talk) 11:51, 13 January 2024 (UTC) Sockstrike ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 00:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Mawlid as a plausible search term. It is indeed a content fork and I don’t see anything to merge but any content about the Barelvi celebration should be included in the Mawlid article. Mccapra (talk) 18:49, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Was a WP:BEFORE done by the nominator as required before bringing it here?...Ngrewal1 (talk) 19:35, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- ~~Yes and this article clearly violates WP:REDUNDANTFORK. Kermanshehi (talk) 11:51, 13 January 2024 (UTC)~~ Sockstrike ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 00:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Mawlid is a process of remembering the Prophet, it can be celebrated in any day of a year. While this subject is for a particular day which is 12 Rabial Awal. I wasn’t notified for this deletion, this is a day in which the Mawlid (remembering of Prophet Muhammad) is done. Barelvi and Sufi muslims celebrate this festival on a particular day. I don’t know why you all can’t understand this. — Quadrimobile(T · C 06:08, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While, in Kanpur Jamiat Ulema e Hind, a non-Barelvi organisation also joins to celebrate the Milad. The nominator being only 4 days old account, if the nominator is an South Asian so he/she can easily understand the differences between Mawlid and this subject. — Quadrimobile(T · C 06:11, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Mawlid is a "process of remembering the Prophet, it can be celebrated in any day of a year" is just a simple incorrect statement. It is celebrated usually on 12th Rabi' al-Awwal (sometimes 17th) per the Mawlid article itself. Yes, the Sufis especially Barelvis, widely celebrate the Mawlid and so does the Jamiat Ulema e Hind. But how is that relevant, so is my account being 4 days old? The Mawlid article has a whole sub-heading on "Sufi festival"; if you want to add Barelvi/Sufi stuff, you can add in this sub-heading on Mawlid. Also, the sources on this article are clearly not WP:RS, just some poor news channels and trivia type sites. The point is that the Mawlid and Milad-un-Nabi is the same festival. "If the nominator is an South Asian so he/she can easily understand the differences between Mawlid and this subject". As a South Asian, I know that Mawlid and Eid Milad-un-Nabi are literally the same thing. Mawlid is the Arabic term for this festival while Milad is the Urdu/Hindi/Bengali term. Kermanshehi (talk) 15:14, 14 January 2024 (UTC) Sockstrike ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 00:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP Tolerance and showing respect to different religions and different points of views is the key part of Islam. The fact that the different term Eid-ul-Milad-un-Nabi was developed by the entire Indian subcontinent (India, Pakistan and Bangladseh), for many generations now, has survived. It shows the verdict of the masses of people. WP:ILIKEIT and WP:IDONTLIKEIT should not apply here. People adopted and formed a TRADITION OF THEIR OWN in their local languages to celebrate this same festival. There are many reasons – they are all non-Arab countries and wanted to develop things in their own local languages so it's easier for masses of people to follow and easily understand the Islamic practices. I'm sure all Muslims realize that they are encouraged to learn Arabic and they already do because it's the language of their holy book, the Quran. For practical reasons though, Islamic religious speeches and sermons are delivered in local people's languages all over the Islamic world every day. References used at the existing article – Zee TV and NDTV are huge TV networks watched all over the Indian subcontinent. They are clearly WP:RS...Ngrewal1 (talk) 19:34, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mate, what is your argument? I never advocated WP:ILIKEIT or WP:IDONTLIKEIT? Nor have I said anything against celebrating the festival of Mawlid al-Nabi/Eid Milad-un-Nabi. The thing is that this festival, Milad-un-Nabi is the same as Mawlid al-Nabi. Kermanshehi (talk) 22:27, 15 January 2024 (UTC) Sockstrike ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 00:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed it's the same festival, but neither you nor I adopted the non-Arabic DIFFERENT LOCALIZED NAME in the Indian subcontinent for it which has managed to survive over many many generations. I am convinced that there are ESSENTIAL DIFFERENCES in local languages and the local practices that people of the Indian subcontinent themselves still CHOOSE to continue using a different localized name. I personally don't have any problems understanding and accepting their choice, even though I fully agree with you that the intent and purpose of this festival is the same. Frankly, I am afraid if we Redirect or Merge the two articles, it will surely pop up again under the non-Arabic name. This is my reason to vote KEEP...Ngrewal1 (talk) 01:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and rename - The title of this article 'Eid-ul-Milad-un-Nabi' is indeed one of the Arabic names for mawlid (another is Mīlād al-Nabī). It's as if there would be an article on Christmas in Ireland called Dies Natalis Christi (Latin for 'Christmas'). We don't have that article, but we surely do have Christmas in Ireland (as we have Christmas in Italy, etc. etc.). It seems beyond doubt that there should be enough reliable sources on Mawlid in South Asia to write an article on it? See for example the excellent Brill source Malik 2023: it's open access and pretty comprehensive, so should make an excellent starting point for writing an article. Parvez 2014 and perhaps Weinrich 2022 should also be helpful in writing the article.
Such an article could for example explain (as Ngrewal wrote above) in detail how some currents of Islam in South Asia such as the Barelvi movement still celebrate the festival, while others such as the Deobandi movement came to reject it in the late 19th century. No doubt specific rituals and celebrations also differ from other parts of the Islamic world. There is very likely something of encyclopedic value here, it just still needs to be written.
Now according to WP:PAGEDECIDE, an article may be a stub even though many sources exist, but simply have not been included yet. Such a short page is better expanded than merged into a larger page. So move to Mawlid in South Asia and let it be expanded. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 01:47, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Apaugasma Just a small advice, it can be expanded in this name also, it’ll be more good. There are many debated on this subject between the Barelvis, Deobandis, Ahle Hadiths and Ahle Qurans. There may be a section for this. — Quadrimobile(T · C 06:51, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I am also in favor of expanding this existing article and prefer to leave the name alone as it already has been IN USE by the people for over a century...Ngrewal1 (talk) 17:57, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Per the views and reasons of Ngrewal1, it can be expanded but not Renamed or Redirected. The same name is being used for centuries in the South Asia. — Quadrimobile(T · C 18:43, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.