Talk:Battle of Chappar Chiri

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Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, Battle of Chappar Chiri. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page – Siege of Sirhind. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Siege of Sirhind – you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Xtremedood (talk) 01:43, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Comment:The article, replicates an article that is already in existence. The article was created by a user with barely any experience on Wikipedia, user:Ahmadshahbadali. The problem with this article is that the sources listed are for the Siege of Sirhind, which is a battle that already has its own article made before this article. The creator of this article references Tony Jacques [1], page 948, however no such reference to any such battle on page 948 can be found [2]. Instead the reference is to the Siege of Sirhind, which Chappar Chiri is considered to be a location in which a part of this siege took place. The creator also referenced Rajmohan Gandhi, which does not make reference to this battle on page 117 of his book, revenge and reconciliation, instead he references the Siege of Sirhind as well (which is a more accepted name). Similarly the creator references a total of 7 sources [3], however, none of the sources from what I have read reference this battle. The only sources I could find have been self-published sources that reference this battle by this name. Mughal-Sikh War articles have been spots of frequent vandalism and hoaxes as well {see here [4]). Neutral sources, like Tony Jaques make no reference to this battle in his Mughal Sikh Wars category (see here [5]) and I think since no neutral source makes any reference to this. This article should therefore be deleted as it replicates a previously created article, namely the Siege of Sirhind. Xtremedood (talk) 01:42, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

I have declined your request for speedy deletion. I am seeing this source which says: "After the battle of Chappar Chiri, Banda marched toward Sirhind and surrounded the city". That implies that at least that source thinks the battle and the siege are two separate events. That may not be a reliable source, I don't know, but it is a complex enough issue not to deal with it with a speedy. In any case, I see no pressing reason to delete the page history. At worst, it can be redirected without any admin intervention as it appears to be a valid redirect. Any useful information can be preserved in the page history for possible merge. If this is a synonym though, it should be mentioned in the target page at least. As it is not mentioned, it would seem that this page covers something that Siege of Sirhind does not, a further reason not to delete. SpinningSpark 23:10, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Notability?

There are two references cited in "The Battle" section

• When Sparrows Became Hawks: The Making of the Sikh Warrior Tradition, 1699-1799, which doesn't appear to mention Chappar Chiri and certainly doesn't mention it or a battle on page 53 as the citation says
• Advanced Study in the History of Modern India 1707-1813, which again doesn't appear to mention Chappar Chiri and certainly doesn't mention it or a battle on page 251 (or on page 8 which the citation links to) as the citation says

Is this another "important" battle which absolutely nothing significant has been written about? FDW777 (talk) 17:09, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Medieval Panjab in Transition: Authority, Resistance and Spirituality C.1500 -C.1700: Verified

• "After reading these letters, every person in his village began to anxiously wait for the arrival of Banda Bahadur. Without any prior indication, he appeared in the town of Kharkhoda about four leagues from Delhi. The local zamindar, who had personally met Guru Gobind Singh and was familiar with his appearance and manners, dedicated himself to Banda Bahadur. In fact, this zamindar carried the news to the Sikhs in all directions. To begin with, Banda Bahadur ravaged the town of Sadhaura. After destroying a number of neighbouring towns and villages, he rushed to Sirhind. By this time, his position had become formidable, as 70,000 people gathered under him. On 22 May 1710, he fought a fierce battle against Wazir Khan, the faujdar of Sirhind, at the village of Chappar Chiri, about 20 km from Sirhind. As he emerged victorious, Wazir Khan and his principal captains were killed. The Sikh rebels, who were as numerous as ants and locusts, barged into the flourishing town. Occupying its fort, they pulled down its buildings and inflicted insult on the inhabitants. They also collected a vast booty of two crore of rupees, including the valuables of Wazir Khan and the goods of his clerk (peshkar), Suchanand. Banda Bahadur undertook plundering raids in two directions, south-east and north-west. Pilllaging Shahabad and Buria, the Sikh rebels, numbering 2,500 horsemen and 10,000 foot soldiers, crossed the Jamuna and fell upon Saharanpur. Buria and Saharanpur were renamed as Gulabnagar and Bhagnagar, respectively. On 27 October 1710, Firoz Khan Mewati clashed with the insurgents near Karnal and sent 300 severed heads of those killed to Delhi. On the other hand, in the areas overrun, Banda Bahadur demanded submission from the Mughal officers, including amils and jagirdars, and appointed his own men with designations of thanedar and tahsildar-i mal." - --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:06, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

  Kansas Bear it's just HaughtonBrit trolling as usual. He immediately rushes to disrupt articles whenever he percieves an affront to his convictions. There's no point engaging with him as he'll employ WP:IDHT and make frivolous arguments to litigate. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 18:30, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

  It's all good. Thanks Southasianhistorian8. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:34, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you Kansas Bear for clearing things up. It’s editors like you who help out other editors. You can ignore Suthasianhistorian8 as he likes to push WP:FRINGE on articles with fallacious reasoning and does not comply with WP:CIVIL, making defamation by libel. 2601:547:B01:B90E:8856:20EE:C342:FD2A (talk) 21:44, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

References