Talk:Cyberpunk derivatives

Spacepunk, Gothpunk, Demonpunk, Horrorpunk, and Rubberpunk.

Strange that the article mentions Raypunk, Nowpunk, Solarpunk, Lunarpunk or Rococopunk (which is great, by all means), but no mention of Spacepunk (which is a massive, albeit generic, punk genre) or Gothpunk (including cybergoth, space goth, primal goth, rubber goth, and other imagery)? I'd also like to give a shoutout to Demonpunk, Horrorpunk and (my personal favorite) Rubberpunk.

Spacepunk (alt. Starpunk, and its recently coined (but not new) subgenre "NASA punk"):

Most Space Operas (including 2001: A Space Odyssey and Star Wars), involve the kind of modern, futuristic, or retro-futuristic elements that make up the Spacepunk genre (of which Raypunk is what you might call its retro-futuristic subgenre).

Ad Astra, Armageddon, Interstellar, Mission to Mars, and The Martian are all examples of NASA punk movies. But perhaps the most prominent "non-NASA" Spacepunk fiction is Warhammer 40K (with legendary status among gamers and sci-fi fans) as well as Starship Troopers, Starcraft, the Alien Saga (albeit mostly Biopunk or "Gigerpunk"), Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy, Buck Rogers (mostly Raypunk), Iron Sky, 007 Moonraker, Space Truckers, Lost in Space, plenty within Star Trek and Star Wars (which are both so big franchises that they involve multiple genres), the Red Dwarf TV series, and more.

Gothpunk (aka cybergoth or space goth within certain fiction and, more prominently, the Goth community):

A more specific genre of punk, sometimes more Spacepunk (in the case of Space goths), or (less "spacey") as a more general subgenre of cyberpunk (as seen in real-life Goth fashion styles). Gothpunk is similar to Steampunk in that it incorporates Victorian and Goth styles, but either without the Steam technology or as a specialized style of Steampunk (with more occult and Goth imagery and less copper, bronze and clockwork).

Demonpunk & Horrorpunk:

Depending on the case, Demonpunk may overlap with or be considered a subgenre of Biopunk, Atompunk, or otherwise, or be a distinct, standalone punk genre. Blade, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Gremlins, Hellboy, I Am Legend (and The Omega Man), Pan's Labyrinth, Resident Evil, the Twilight Saga, the Underworld Saga, World War Z, and similar movies and fictions are all examples of dystopian or pre-dystopian worlds ruled by vampires, demons, werewolves and/or otherwise, where humans must survive (usually by the grace of anarchistic young adults). Demonpunk sometimes overlaps with Atompunk or otherwise, but is nonetheless distinct with its imagery that involves the occult, Slavic and Romani mythology, paganism, witchcraft, Satanism, and/or similar "dark side" imagery.

Horrorpunk also involve similar imagery as Demonpunk, but differs in its explicit Horror (where Demonpunk is usually comedic or action-based) and involves more psychology, fear and disgust. One may argue that Horrorpunk would best be described as either a subgenre of Demonpunk or just used interchangably. Cosmic horrors like Alien, Event Horizon, Resident Evil, Deadspace, and anything related to H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos, whenever portraying "punk" elements (and not just Horror in general) could be considered Horrorpunk, Demonpunk, or both.

Rubberpunk (alt. punk rubberist, i.e., tirepunk, condompunk, rubberclubber, rubberbrat, balloony, rubbergoth, rubber mechanist, etc.):

This is a newer and more obscure punk subgenre that needs explaining. "Rubberism", more generally, is a specific fashion and arts subculture with (now distant) roots in British Rainwear culture, post-WW2 gay rights and, more generally, in "the fetish scene", but has since grown enormously into its own thing. Rubberism is still heavily stereotyped as "BDSM" or "fetish" (terms that are themselves stereotyped as "NSFW" (or outright "Porn"), likely due to how the Adult industry (and, conversely, moralists) have hijacked and/or misrepresented the terms, including psychiatry defining fetishism previously as "a mental disorder"). To be clear, rubber fetishists aren't always rubberists (often due to shame, which is a mental health issue) and rubberists aren't always rubber fetishists (i.e., they don't have a "rubber fetish"). Rubberism has had a major renaissance in the last 20-30 years within films, music, arts and fashion. Famous rubberists or rubber fashionistas include Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Rita Ora, and others. Many "fetish models" are also lifestyle rubberists or rubber fashionistas but they abhore the Adult industry. Either way, given that rubber is literally just a fabric (technically a group of fabrics, natural and synthetic, where "latex rubber" refers to the 100% natural vulcanized rubber made from the latex of rubber trees), Rubberist styles include virtually anything imaginable - from casual wear, romantic lingerie, clubbing outfits, cosplay and even wedding attire, to the more extreme "Heavy Rubber" costumes, suits, harnesses, ABC protective gear, and more (including the surreal and absurd).

Rubberpunk is a combination of punk or cyberpunk (sometimes more specifically dieselpunk, steampunk or other "heavy industry imagery") with Rubberism, where the use of full-body attire, gasmasks, rubber straps and harnesses, Goodyear tire aesthetics, corsets, or whatnot, are key. It's a more "militaristic" and dystopian look than "Heavy Rubberism" and implies more a "gearing up for work" lifestyle (sometimes with survivalist undertones) rather than just "a fashion statement". The Rubberpunk style has been featured in clubbing scenes of Matrix 2 & 3, and Selene from Underworld could be considered a kind of Rubberpunk (and/or rubbergoth). When certain fashion models portrayed Tomb Raider Lara Croft by wearing a green latex tank top over ordinary cargo shorts and guns blazing, that slightly gave off a kind of hybrid rubberpunk vibe. Rubberpunk is still a young and heavily underrepresented genre though, likely due to the various stigmas surrounding it. As such, there's very little actual fiction that portrays it as a primary theme. 2001:4645:3622:0:B55B:9D0E:22FD:2FCE (talk) 06:18, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

The reason none of that is included is because there's no references for it. Despite the vast wall of text you've typed, you didn't provide any actual definitions. Spacepunk based on your lists seems to be a synonym for "science fiction", and you used "space opera" to describe it. Although calling 2001: A Space Odyssey a space opera makes me question your understanding of the genre. I can't see anything in common with 2001, Star Wars, Red Dwarf, Iron Sky, and Hitchhikers beyond them all being science fiction. And if that's all they have in common then we don't need another suffix-punk term to describe it because we ALREADY HAVE the term science fiction. Frankly beyond your collection of titles you've given no examples of what makes it a specific genre and no references of the term in use by a reliable source. Until then, skip it. Brother William (talk) 11:26, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but in almost all of these -punk categories that you list very few examples have anything to do with alternative technologies and are mostly tied together through a vibe or fashion trend. Since virtually all Horror deals with "psychology, fear and disgust" at some level, what you describe as Demonpunk is simply the Horror genre, and we already have a name for that. I have never heard anyone refer to the Alien franchise as Horrorpunk. "Demonpunk may overlap with or be considered a subgenre of Biopunk, Atompunk ..." it may? How? Where in Buffy is there an alternative demonic technology? What latex technology is Miley Cyrus using to warrant the term "Latexpunk"? If there are any actual cited sources to back up these dubious claims I would love to see them. Xenomorph erotica (talk) 21:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Most "Sub"-Genres don't come from Cyberpunk

Well, most of these Genres don’t come from Cyberpunk and aren’t influenced by it, either. The only thing in common is the ending „-punk“, which was taken from Cyberpunk, because it was big in Media, and Steampunk needed a name, they took the „-punk“ from Cyberpunk. The other, "newer*" genres such as Atompunk derived their name from Steampunk because they are also largely retrofuturistic. It was only later that smaller things like "solarpunk" and the like were added.

• like Steampunk they existed before there was a Name for it, escpecially the Retro-Futuristic ones (inspired by the actual future visions of „their“ era)

87.139.20.65 (talk) 14:47, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, many of the *punk subgenres do not seem noteworthy and their connection to Cyberpunk is tenuous at best but Elfpunk and Mythpunk seem entirely out of place in this article. I should have deleted them already but I thought I'd give editors a chance to move them somewhere more appropriate. (So I tagged it {{Split section}}. -- 109.78.193.90 (talk) 16:58, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

If nobody objects, I'll move Elfpunk to Urban Fantasy and Mythpunk to Mythic Fiction. CohenTheBohemian (talk) 14:56, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Not a strong objection, but is there not scope for renaming this article to something broader like "genres ending in -punk", and (where the genres can be sourced) keeping them? Belbury (talk) 15:51, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

"List of genres named "-punk"", maybe? CohenTheBohemian (talk) 14:37, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Or that could just be a separate article that lists them all without going into much detail.

Just seems like there should be a direct way for a reader to get from, say, Lunarpunk to Mythpunk without having to guess that the mythic fiction article exists and might contain more -punks. Belbury (talk) 15:06, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello Tomorrow!

What about Hello Tomorrow!. Hektor (talk) 16:04, 1 March 2024 (UTC)