Talk:Vance Drummond

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Vance Drummond/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Zawed (talk · contribs) 10:15, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I will take this one, comments to follow in a few days. Zawed (talk) 10:15, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I was kind of hoping you'd come to this party, tks mate! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:20, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

OK, have looked this over and only have a few nitpicky comments:

Infobox

• For the RNZAF, his service ended in 1945, not 1946 (according to the body).
  • Tks, done.

Early career and Korean War

• I think his service in Korea warrants it being in a standalone section. Possibly his early RAAF career as well?
  • Yes, I'm not wed to the section contents (or titles) as they are but I think we'd end up with a few single-paragraph sections otherwise, and as they are they seem to work in conjunction with the images we have. As I said on Talk, before ACR I'll head to the library and see if I can garner further details and see where we come out.
    • For now, had a go dividing the first section into NZ service and early RAAF service + Korea; also tweaked section titles so let me know what you think. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:58, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
      • Hi Zawed, didn't stop there, broke Vietnam out into own section (which to be fair I'd considered for a while), added a couple of snippets and an image -- I think that'll do for now so back to you when you're ready... :-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:33, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

References

• Gillespie. "The Pacific" is the title, and the "Official..." is the series. That's how I've been presenting it at least!
• The URLs for Going Solo and Strategy and Red Ink don't work
  • Fixed all these I think.

Other stuff

• Images: the tags all check out OK
• No dablinks
• No dupe links
• Other than the Hurst and Stephen links mentioned above, Checklinks tool doesn't indicate any problems.

Great work as always Ian. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:06, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks Zawed. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:10, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, while we're here, what's your thought on the cats being "Australian" DFC recipients and so on? I figured since he received them during his RAAF service that's how it should be but if you've seen it done differently (maybe leaving out the nationality entirely) be interested to know. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:31, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

This is all looking great, am satisfied the article meets the GA criteria so am passing now. RE the cats, I think they are fine. If he had a stronger connection to NZ (Drummond is from my hometown but I've never heard of him until this article) I may think differently, but as you note, the awards were received during his service with the RAAF. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:58, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Okay thanks for that -- and of course the review in general! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:07, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

NZ military service

Hi Zawed, tks for this. Thought I might find his file online at Archives NZ but only got his father's (his RAAF file hasn't been digitised at the NAA either, although I don't think the article is lacking key info since we have lots of other sources for his career). With the Auckland Museum stuff, do you understand it to mean he was with the Signals Division in Japan in 1946-48? It's just that it mentions WW2 a lot in there -- but then in WW2 he was in the Air Force according to the ADB so I guess it must refer to his NZMF service in Japan... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't explicitly state he served in Japan, although the reference to 2NZEF is highly suggestive of this because of the 1946-48 timeline. Otherwise, yes, that is how I read it. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:53, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I think especially given it mentions the embarkation roll from Jan '46 to Jun '48 as the source, it's clearly not talking about his WW2 service despite "WW2" showing up, so I think I can work in the Signals Division. After that I'd be ready when you are for the GAN, unless there are other sources you think I can mine, like an NZ Trove or some such... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:16, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Zawed, digging a little further, I'm dubious about the 2 NZ Sig Div reference now, as the official history seems to say the formation was disbanded in February 1946 (and in Europe at that), a month before the ADB claims Drummond joined the NZMF... It's true it looks like the remnants of the division wound up in Japan as J-Force's Signals Company, but as the Auckland Museum link mentions the division only, I don't think we can use it. Following on from my previous, if there's a NZ newspaper archive like Trove that might include an obituary in an NZ paper then it could offer more detail re. his early service. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:22, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Ian Rose: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ is the equivalent of Trove but only goes up to 1949. I've done a quick search but didn't find anything relevant. However, it occurs to me that the local library, just down the road from where I work, has most of the past editions of the Waikato Times on microfiche (I've used it before for another article). As a former local boy, Drummond may have warranted a decent obit in it. I will go and have a look tomorrow on my lunch break. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:50, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

That'd be great if it's not too much trouble. Obviously I think there's plenty of detail already for GA-level (although you have to make that call!) but I'm planning to check out the library myself for any useful non-digitised info prior to a run at ACR/FAC, such as newspapers not in Trove, and the official histories of Australia in the Korean and Vietnam Wars. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:30, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, the level of detail as it stands is fine for GA. So Drummond's crash was front page news in the Waikato Times as a news item the day after the accident, but it doesn't add anything any extra to what is already in the article, beyond a quote from his father: "He is a fearless pilot but not a reckless one". I looked for an obit but there didn't seem to have been one published in May which maybe because the RAAF was still doing its search? I ran out of time to check June. I will do the GA review this weekend. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:56, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Zawed, I forgot to mention this before nominating the article for ACR just now -- one of the refs in Drummond's Australian Dictionary of Biography entry is "New Zealand Herald, 23 Sept 1967" -- is that one you might be able to check for any additional info? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:43, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Ian, I will have a look to see if the library has the Herald on microfiche. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:27, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Ian Rose, I was able to get to the library at lunchtime, but no joy, they don't have the Herald on microfiche. I did check the Waikato Times over the period 22 to 27 Sept 1967 but there wasn't anything there. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 07:50, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Not at all, mate, I really appreciate you trying. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:19, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Combat History

Given his Less-than-outstanding war record, why is there an article on him? 95.147.153.37 (talk) 08:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

War record is not the sole criterion for notability -- per WP:ANYBIO, the fact that he earns an entry in the Australian Dictionary of Biography alone is sufficient. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC)