Talk:Vomiting

(Attention: please see two new sections below.)

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Picture

Yuk. Do we need a picture of vomit? Dysprosia 09:11, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

While it's not terribly appealing, I do think a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm mentally preparing myself to go fight this very same battle over at penis, where someone commented out all of the pictures. →Raul654 09:14, Mar 24, 2004 (UTC)

At least the photo was sized down to a reasonable (i.e., quite small) size. When the photo was first added, it was disturbingly large. If you didn't see it, count yourself fortunate. :) Moncrief 09:14, Mar 24, 2004 (UTC)

The pigeons make the photo very good taste tho'. Almost artistic. I wonder what Dierk ate that morning in the park. --Menchi 09:16, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

No doubt it's artistic, but I think the pigeons do the opposite to it (Maybe it's just because, yes, I did see the large photo...) Dysprosia 09:19, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

You have only your morbid curiosity to blame. Morbid! --Menchi 09:30, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It was an accident! An accident, I say! Dysprosia 22:05, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The picture was Image:Erbrochenes.jpg, for those arriving too late to see it. Marnanel 21:28, May 20, 2004 (UTC)

Image:vomiting_woman.jpg (since Wikipedia is not a shock site, even in the TALK realm, this image will not appear on this TALK page - however, you can go look at it if you wish)

How about this picture, which has been circulating online for at least 8 years. It illustrates the topic very well, IMO. Bronwyn18 20:24, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Image:Haley2.jpg (since Wikipedia is not a shock site, even in the TALK realm, this image will not appear on this TALK page - however, you can go look at it if you wish)

This picture isn't so disturbing because it is so obvious what the substance is.Bronwyn18 01:08, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Blech. If you put pictures up, make them little thumbnails please.  :-) - Omegatron 07:15, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)

Photo found when looking, not linked to this page. Put on page. Yes, vomiting is not an attractive event, yet a photo is needed in the article. 1000 words worth. For health care workers, and parents, vomiting always causes problems, regardless of the number of years working ro number of children. The photo causes me the same effect, and although I don't like it, it is improtant for the article. I copied it for use in lectures teaching health care as well, because good photos are rare, and this is one. Glen Larson

I think the vomiting woman picture is pretty good but the framed version was dominating the section and, perhaps, had too much of a shock effect. I've reduced to 150 pixels thumbnail. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 05:12, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Put the link to the photo back on the page with a cuation warning, to hopefully keep the faint at heart form deleting. Yes, the photo is not nice, but this should be acceptable. There are other un-nice photos out here, but why are they reading an article on vomiting, yet don't expect a photo? Engage in discussing the matter rather than simply deleting the immage. This type of going arround and deleting material is vanadalism, please note. Regardless, the link should be acceptable to all, and requires a second active step. They can go to ifd - Images and media for deletion - and address concerns, but as I noted above, actual photos of someone vomiting are very rare, and this one is a "good" photo of the event! Glen Larson

Actually I think the picture should go inline. This is an article about vomiting, not bunnies and butterflies. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 23:08, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but "they" just keep being "upset." The link should solve the problem. Glen Larson

I put it back inline with the default size thumbnail. I do not support suppressing images behind a link; this image is no big deal. — Davenbelle 23:34, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

OK, agreed, leave the thumb photo in. Glen Larson

Two new sections

These should be added to the bottom of the article.

I am placing these here for review, modification, and inclusion by qualified medical or emergency personnel. They seem to me to be a necessary and desirable inclusion to the article, but I do not feel qualified to post these from a medical standpoint. These recommendations are only based on reading and personal experience (I have not vomited in a very long time, thankfully). Leonard G. 04:17, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'll look them over. I'm a certified EMT. I'm looking to change the article quite a bit - we could include a lot more here. From a public health perspective we could at least include some poisoning emergency images, etc. Sandbody 21:46, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Reducing nausea

As noted above, vomiting can occur as a physical response to an emotional situation, for example seeing the consequences of a gory accident. It is part of a general shock reaction, usually preceded by a "cold sweat" and a loss of peripheral blood flow leading (in fair skinned people) to a pallor (the skin, especially in the face, will turn from pink to white. In these cases there is no particular benefit to vomiting (as is the case with food poisoning, excessive intake of alcohol, etc.) It may be possible to arrest the vomiting reflex by sitting on a low chair or object and placing the head between the knees. If you are assisting another person in this state, place your hand lightly on the back and ask them to push up - as they push up, resist this motion. Smelling salts (specially prepared ampules of ammonia) may be briefly passed under the nose of the victim as they inhale.

How to vomit

There are two problems related to the act vomiting, one only an inconvenience, the other potentially life threatening. Both of these are controllable by an aware and alert vomiter:

• Vomit is expelled not only through the mouth but also through the nasal passages and nostrils. This can leave irritating vomit residue and solid food particles in the nasal mucosa, which take some time to clear by normal mucus expulsion. This can be controlled (only by the person vomiting) by pinching the nostrils closed at the moment vomit is expelled.

• If vomit is partially expelled or not cleared and is followed by inhalation then vomit may be inspired into the trachea and possibly the brachial tubes. It is this condition that is a leading cause of death when unconscious persons vomit - they asphyxiate. This is why a person who has ingested alcohol to excess should be carefully observed - it may be better to ensure that that person properly vomits before they pass out, especially as this may also reduce some of the alcohol overload.

It is the potential inhalation of vomit that is the reason behind the recommendation that a person who has ingested petroleum products and certain other materials not be induced to vomit, as such materials may be very damaging to the lungs. They should instead have their stomachs pumped out by qualified medical personel.

It is important that breathing be properly timed by the vomiter. It is not possible to breath during the moment of expulsion and there may be only brief periods in which to breath between convulsions, if the moment of first vomit can be predicted, it is best to have a good blood oxygen level and a good amount of air in the lungs. With lots of air in the lungs, any vomit that enters the trachea (windpipe) may be expelled by coughing.

regurgitation vs vomit

"Some adult birds regurgitate food to feed their young, triggered by a feather or a beak of their young. The food can be either incompletely digested or partially predigested, depending on the species. Some bird species may also use regurgitation as a form of defense, vomiting when wounded or molested. When an intruder or a predator comes near a fulmar on its nest, the bird vomits oil up to 3 feet at the enemy."

Apparently regurgitation is different from vomiting. We should be as accurate as possible. I don't know which is more accurate in this case. - Omegatron 07:15, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)

I would agree, if someone can provide more specific comments. Glen Larson

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the image

how do we know the picture is in public domain? what proof do we have? if there is not proof provided within 48 hours of this post, i will remove the image from this article. if that image is a private image, wikipedia could get sued. Kingturtle 02:09, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm fine with it going for cause... — Davenbelle 02:14, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

• A clarification: by 'cause', I mean reasons such as copyvio or non-PD; the uploader does have an odd contrib-list.— Davenbelle 19:48, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

The uploader made a declaration that the image is in the public domain. I presume it was her own. It is the normal practise in these circumstances to take the word of the uploader unless there is good reason to doubt it.

May I ask King Turtle why he's so keen to remove a picture of vomiting from an article about vomiting? --Tony Sidaway|Talk 02:28, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Because judging from the outfit and the pose, the image is from a vomiting fetish site. this brings up two issues: was the choice of using the image for fetish reasons, and is the image copyrighted by a porn site. Kingturtle 02:38, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I don't really think it matters whether some fetishist might find this picture interesting for their own reasons, it's a very good picture of a woman vomiting. I discussed the situation re copyright claims above. Find the site and verify the ownership, and you'll have demonstrated that the image is not public domain. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 02:53, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Sure sure, just what i want to do - sift through a bunch of vomit fetish sites. make me hurl! Kingturtle 03:03, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

But seriously, the other thing that bothers me is that the image was posted by someone who made one wikipedia article edit, and uploaded two vomit images (both of women), and then disappeared. i will ask Bronwyn18 where he/she got the image, but i don't expect an reply. as for the images, judging that Bronwyn18 uploaded two images of young, thin women vomiting, it further substantiates my suspicion that they are fetish images. and i don't like the idea of wikipedia having images that degrade women through this sort of fetishization. Kingturtle 03:10, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It's quite possible that Bronwen is a vomit fetishist. You may not like the idea of fetish images, you may even find them degrading, but in this instance they're pretty good illustrations of the subject matter of the article. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 03:14, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

But we could certainly use an image that wasn't degrading. Kingturtle 03:19, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, she's vomiting. Apart from the obvious, are you attaching some special meaning to the word "degrading" here? --Tony Sidaway|Talk 03:26, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes. I respect Emetophilia to some extent, but when the images start to be of thin, young women, what begins to be fetishized are eating disorders - which are life-threatening. also, i have serious problems with men who fetishize young women in degrading manners. Kingturtle 03:32, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think you've got a point, there. HOwever I think it's somewhat tangential to the question of whether this is a good illustration of vomiting. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 04:05, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Interesting discussion. A few points.

1. Bronwyn18 may be either male or female. The user uploded two images, on two seperate days, and had made a post on this page - the talk page not in the article. Kingturtle deleted them from this page as a personal view. Bronwyn18 has been absent since then. Censorship may be the problem here. Users leave when their contributions are deleted.

2. This is an article about vomiting. The value of a photo is not disputed. A better photo may be nice, but we do not have one to date. Most people do not like vomiting, in themselves or others. I did not know about this Emetophilia and fetish stuff! Regardless, an image does add to the article.

3. An interpretation of the photo has been advance, although I do not see that from the pose or clothing. I, as a health care worker, have delt with those in the club scene having consumed to much vomiting in this pose, and wearing this type of clothing. Anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa are serious problems. I can not tell from the photo the weight of the individual, but I don't think it is to far out of the norm. Although there is no hard and fast rules and this may be but simple points for discussion on a serious problem, but often vomiting is found with the binge bulimia nervosa who wants to prevent additional weight gain, with an already weight problem. Anorexia nervosa has the individual aready starving in a thin state, and the related muscle loss, and vomiting is rarer.

There are a number of methods for those that do not like the immage to deal with the problem and their questions or concerns. Take it to that forum.

Continued deletion may requre the page to be protected.Glenlarson 06:25, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The image will not teach someone about vomiting what they do not already know. Like with many confrontational images on Wikipedia, it has nothing but shock value. Let the young lady puke in peace. JFW | T@lk 13:06, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

In fact, there is no indication that consent of the woman was obtained for wide circulation. As she is in a compromising situation on the photo, I insist on this stricture before it can be inserted. I have left messages on both the image talk page and the uploader's page. JFW | T@lk 13:24, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Seems fair. No problemo. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 14:47, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Censorship Censorship Censorship

Nick Berg did not concent to his photo. Nor have may others. The photo reflects an even. Teaches more than the words. Yes, I will use it in my powerpoint to teach in the health care environment. Images prevent "death by powerpoint" for students, and that applies to the article. Without an image, it is a shallow shell. There will always be a continued concern with this or anyother photo of vomiting, yet there are many other photos on Wikipedia that pass lesser hurdles. The value of Wikipedia is decreased. Glenlarson

Glenlarson, I have serious issues with this accusation. This women is hopefully still alive. If she did not consent to the image she can (and WILL) sue Wikipedia for defamation. UNLESS this is recorded, placing this image is unethical and unwise. Just keep the ***** c-word to yourself and discuss the issues, rather than bleating. JFW | T@lk 21:04, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Clarifying the final sentence of the first section

The first section currently ends in a sentence stating Nausea usually, but not always and not necessarily, precedes vomiting.

I find this to be ambiguous between the meanings "If you feel nausea, this is usually (but not always) a precursor to vomitting" and "People who vomit usually (but not always) feel nausea previously". I'm not sure which meaning is intended, but I think the sentence should be clarified to specify one meaning unambiguously. -- pne 11:46, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)