Talk:Barry Lyndon

Der Hohenfriedberger composer

As noteed in the article Der Hohenfriedberger it looks as though its composition by Frederick II of Prussia is now disputed. I do not know whether this was the case back in the mid 70's. The fact is that Frederick is listed as the composer in the closing credits and on the back cover of the LP and in a few other areas like this [http://www.amazon.com/Barry-Lyndon-Original-Picture-Soundtrack/dp/B00539ULVQ]. I am wondering if anyone has an idea of how we should handle this mention in the music section. We could remove his name or we could add a footnote mentioning the dispute. Thanks ahead of time for any input that you can add. MarnetteD | Talk 00:27, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the article says nothing about the history of its attribution, and is generally not well cited. When did the composition's authorship begin to be disputed?? I would essentially say in the article that its authorship is unknown and then footnote that the film credits and soundtrack album attribute it to F2.--WickerGuy (talk) 00:37, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I should have mentioned that this section was prompted by this edit [1] made earlier today. I don't know whether it will become something that the IP wants changed. Based on the lack of detail in the article for the march we could leave this article as is but if you wanted to add the footnote that would be great. Seeing the lyrics reminded me that, after the grand orchestral version is heard when Barry is riding along after having stolen the officers clothes and horse, it is also being sung by the soldiers in the scene at the inn when Potsdorf catches Barry in a lie and Barry "volunteers" to join the Prussian army. MarnetteD | Talk 00:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I (originally) removed the attribution after finding contradictory claims in related Wiki articles, and not finding any supporting evidence in a quick search. Since Wiki strives for a truthful representation of the facts, I support the suggestion of moving the attribution to a footnote and either stating "authorship unknown" or ignoring the issue altogether in the main section. If a "soundtrack" section in tableform was to be added, the opposite might have been the case (reflecting in the main section the LP's cover). 85.64.116.186 (talk) 15:27, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Discrepancies?

The Plot summary shown here does not correspond to the Warner UK DVD:

1. The regiment of the British Army that Barry joins is not sent to France but to Germany. No British land forces were in France in 1759.

2. The meeting of Barry and Lady Lyndon is at Spa, then in the Bishopric of Liège. The narrator erroneously places it in Belgium, which only came into existence in 1830.

3. The place where Bullingdon finds Barry in a drunken stupor is not an inn but a club, as stated under Cast.

4. The place where Bullingdon and Barry meet for their duel is not a former chapel but a barn, as stated under Cinematography.

Should these four items be corrected?

--Hors-la-loi 07:44, 30 August 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hors-la-loi (talk • contribs)

Looks as if these are now put right.--Clifford Mill (talk) 22:16, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Quotations from the script in other movies

The following sentence in the lead smacks of WP:OR and really need to be reliably sourced: "Quotations from its script have also appeared in such disparate works as Ridley Scott's The Duellists, Scorsese's The Age of Innocence, Wes Anderson's Rushmore and Lars von Trier's Dogville".

I found a citation for the other uncited claim in the lead, namely that it was Scorseses favorite Kubrick movie. I am not sure if the source is reliable, it does not provide any source of where it got its information, and the claim made by Scorsese can only barely be interpreted as an outright statement of it being his favorite Kubrick movie. However it was the only one I could find, every other hit seems to be images of this very page reused in all sorts of contexts on the net (the unverifiable quotation seems to be a perennial internet classic). --Saddhiyama (talk) 16:10, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for catching this. The phrase is oddly worded since it refers to the "script". I wouldn't know what the OP was trying to impart but I think they were trying to allude to the fact that the cinematographic style is referenced in those other films. I know Ridley Scott discusses this on the DVD commentary for The Duellists. I have also heard Scorsese refer to it but I can't remember where. I have no background in what Wes or Lars may have taken from this film. I would say that you should continue to fix things (unless you are already done of course) alter things to meet WikiP's guidelines. Thanks for you efforts. MarnetteD | Talk 20:31, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

I moved the sentence out of the intro and tagged it as {{Citation needed}} 72.244.200.16 (talk) 22:11, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Excessive external links

Fourteen external links is excessive. As a first step I replaced multiple links to http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/ into a single item — 72.244.200.16 (talk) 22:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

The real Redmond Barry and the Bullingdon duel

Ever since I saw the film 20 years ago, I have been curious about Thackeray's use of the name "Redmond Barry" for his leading character. Redmond Barry was a real person, an Irish-born lawyer who became a judge in Melbourne - best known as the judge who hanged Ned Kelly. I assume Thackeray heard the name from his friend Trollope, who visited Melbourne in the 1840s. But now I learn that the scene in the film where Barry Lyndon fights his duel with Lord Bullingdon is based on a real event, in which Redmond Barry fought a duel in Melbourne in 1841 with one Peter Snodgrass. "The farcical elements of this 'affair of honour' reached their climax when Snodgrass fired prematurely in nervous haste, while Barry magnanimously and ceremoniously fired his pistol into the air." (Australian Dictionary of Biography). But the curious thing is that this duel is not in Thackeray's novel - it was inserted in the screenplay by Kubrick. So Kubrick must been aware of the real Redmond Barry and read or heard the story of the Snodgrass duel. This seems improbable, but the alternative - that it is complete coincidence - is even more improbable. Does anyone know anything about this? Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 03:10, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Material

Ryan O'Neal, the lead actor of Barry Lyndon

Barry Lyndon (1975) is an adaptation of William Makepeace Thackeray's The Luck of Barry Lyndon (also known as Barry Lyndon), a picaresque novel about the adventures of an 18th-century Irish gambler and social climber. John Calley of Warner Bros agreed in 1972 to invest $2.5 million into the film, on condition that Kubrick approach major Hollywood stars, to ensure it of success. Like previous films, Kubrick and his art department conducted an enormous amount of research, and he went from knowing very little about the 18th century at the start of the production to becoming an expert on it. Extensive photographs were taken of locations and artwork in particular, and paintings were meticulously replicated from works of the great masters of the period in the film. Initially Kubrick insisted on largely Victorian-era decor, but Ken Adam convinced him that it wouldn't look authentic for the period. Kubrick's first choice to play the character of Barry was Robert Redford, who was in England at the time shooting The Great Gatsby. When Redford opted to play a more heroic role in The Great Waldo Pepper instead, Ryan O'Neal was delighted to be offered the chance to work with Kubrick and was cast. Most of the other cast members, including Steven Berkoff and Philip Stone, were actors Kubrick had previously worked with and trusted to perform well. The film was shot on location in Ardmore, County Waterford, Ireland beginning in the autumn of 1973, at a cost of $11 million with a cast and crew of 170. The decision to shoot in Ireland stemmed from the fact that it still retained many buildings from the 18th century period which England lacked. The production was problematic from the start, plagued with heavy rain and political strife involving Northern Ireland at the time. After Kubrick received death threats from the IRA in the New Year of 1974 due to the shooting scenes with English soldiers, he fled Ireland with his family on a ferry from Dún Laoghaire under an assumed identity, and filming resumed in England.

William Hogarth's The Country Dance (c.1745) illustrates the type of interior scene that Kubrick sought to emulate with Barry Lyndon.

Baxter notes that Barry Lyndon was the film which made Kubrick notorious for paying scrupulous attention to detail, often demanding 20 or 30 retakes of the same scene to perfect his art. Often considered to be his most authentic-looking picture, the cinematography and lighting techniques that Kubrick and cinematographer John Alcott used in Barry Lyndon were highly innovative. Most notably, interior scenes were shot with a specially adapted high-speed f/0.7 Zeiss camera lens originally developed for NASA to be used in satellite photography. The lenses allowed many scenes to be lit only with candlelight, creating two-dimensional, diffused-light images reminiscent of 18th-century paintings. Cinematographer Allen Daviau states that the method gives the audience a way of seeing the characters and scenes as they would have been seen by people at the time. Many of the fight scenes were shot with a hand-held camera to produce a "sense of documentary realism and immediacy". Writer George Lewis referred to many of the scenes in the film as looking like actual European paintings of the 1700s and 1800s. The effect was accentuated, notes Ciment, by Kubrick's use of "slow reverse zoom which, moving out from a single character, enlarges the field of vision until its powerful scrutiny takes possession of the whole decor". Kubrick told Ciment, "I created a picture file of thousands of drawings and paintings for every type of reference that we could have wanted. I think I destroyed every art book you could buy in a bookshop."

Although Barry Lyndon found a great audience in France, it was a box office failure, grossing just $9.5 million in the American market, not even close to the $30 million Warner Bros. needed to generate a profit. Kubrick later said: "The important thing in films is not so much to make successes as not to make failures, because each failure limits your future opportunities to make the films you want to make." The pace and length of Barry Lyndon at three hours put off many American critics and audiences, but the film was nominated for seven Academy Awards and won four, including Best Art Direction, Best Cinematography, Best Costume Design and Best Musical Score, more than any other Kubrick film. As with most of Kubrick's films, Barry Lyndon's reputation has grown through the years and it is now considered to be one of his best, particularly among filmmakers and critics. Numerous polls, such as Village Voice (1999), Sight & Sound (2002), and Time (2005), have rated it as one of the greatest films ever made. As of August 2015 it has as 96% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, based on 52 reviews. Wally Hammond of Time Out wrote that it is "One of cinema's most heartfelt and sustained (it runs over three hours), if cynical, visions of an individual's powerlessness", while Roger Ebert referred to it as "one of the most beautiful films ever made", "certainly in every frame a Kubrick film: technically awesome, emotionally distant, remorseless in its doubt of human goodness", and added it to his "Great Movie" list with a full 4 star rating. He further wrote: "The film has the arrogance of genius. Never mind its budget or the perfectionism in its 300-day shooting schedule. How many directors would have had Kubrick's confidence in taking this ultimately inconsequential story of a man's rise and fall, and realizing it in a style that dictates our attitude toward it? We don't simply see Kubrick's movie, we see it in the frame of mind he insists on -- unless we're so closed to the notion of directorial styles that the whole thing just seems like a beautiful extravagance (which it is). There is no other way to see Barry than the way Kubrick sees him."

References

Berensen's Time Magazine cover

"Kubrick merely announced that his next film would star [...] Marisa Berenson, a former Vogue and Time magazine cover model[.]"

As near as I can tell, Berenson's only Time cover was the December 15, 1975 issue, promoting the release of Barry Lyndon. This is an admittedly minor point but in that case Berenson shouldn't be identified in the sentence above as a Time cover model, as at the time of her casting she was yet to appear on the cover.

(Which makes more sense anyway, as Time doesn't use models on its covers the way Vogue does, of course.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.110.20.213 (talk) 05:19, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Shouldn't Ireland be listed in country origin of the movie

A lot of the film was filmed in Ireland, as seen in the production section, and the characters are Irish so why isn't Ireland listed with the USA and the UK in countries? PlasticCoffee (talk) 16:22, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

But if you add that, you should also add Germany because some exterior shots were filmed there. (HAL333 (talk) 22:09, 10 December 2018 (UTC))

Formatting error in the Music Section

In the music section of this article, the track-listing and Album infoboxes overlap on the far right. Does anyone know how to fix this? HAL333 19:34, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

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"de Balibari"?

"Balibari" is clearly an anglicized/germanized version of "Baile Barry" (more properly "de Barra") meaning "(of the) village of Barry" in Irish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.157.50 (talk) 14:24, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

In the source novel, the Chevalier is Barry's long lost uncle. For some reason, Kubrick did not change the Chevalier's name despite removing the familial connection. Mironin (talk) 20:16, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Grogan's death

The article states "Grogan is fatally wounded by the French at the Battle of Minden". The flags advanced against by Barry's company appear not to be French but rather Finnish and the national colors of Sweden; I removed "by the French". --NoApostropheInIts (talk) 20:46, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I agree this is not believable. I removed the mention of the specific battle. Mironin (talk) 02:15, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Interiors

Article says "with the interiors shot mainly in London". Based on what? Most of the interiors are clearly identifiable as belonging to historic buildings scattered around the UK and Ireland.

Probably the interiors that had to be created on a soundstage.

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myths die hard

it is a common misconception that this film was photographed without artificial lighting. this certainly is true for the orange tinted parts. other interior scenes relied heavily on electricity. the lighting was put outside the windows creating a natural look of illumination. otherwise half the movie would have been a blur with no depth of field at all… — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8070:2781:1300:4CBA:3F97:40F6:556E (talk) 19:32, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Among greatest films of all time?

Should not the sentence in the intro "[...] many now regarding it as one of his greatest achievements and one of the greatest films of all time" have some sort of citation to indicate that there is a consensus among film critics that this is one of the greatest films of all time or at least among Kubrick connoisseurs that it is one of his greatest films? I always get weary at reading such sentences ("his greatest achievement" or "greatest of all time") because of how loosely they are often thrown around.

Deadseaweed (talk) 20:48, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that's silly (and gone). Clarityfiend (talk) 20:57, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

On second thought, the reevaluation section does make a case, so I'm going to restore the claim while I think this over. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:00, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

A version of that text is justifiable, the film has received considerable praise, then and now.

That does not mean the wording doesn't have problems. At the moment it links to the page List of films considered the best but Barry Lyndon is not included on that list, so that page should not have been linked at all. -- 109.76.204.243 (talk) 00:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Barry Lyndon & Irish Diaspora

With reference to this rollback by Eric:

The film covers an Irishman abroad in military service to foreign powers who makes his fortune having met another Irishman in the continental diaspora.

If the addition to the category Irish Diaspora films is inappropriate - as the "dispersion of Irish people" is not the central plot point - then so too is the current inclusion in categories such as Adultery in films and Seven Years' War films.

That's not to mention the numerous Films set in X and Films shot in Y categories. Why is the article contained in the category Films shot in Oxfordshire if it was not entirely shot there? Why is the category Films set in Prussia acceptable when this is only true of a small fraction of the film?

The Irish Diaspora films category is no less relevant than most of the several dozen categories which already include this article.

AnSiarach (talk) 19:02, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Hello- I did not look at the other cats in which editors have placed this article. In my view, many wp articles are over-categorized, some to the point of making the encyclopedia look foolish. I think the adultery cat is ridiculous, and I would not keep the Prussia or Oxfordshire cats on this article. I just re-watched this film the other day, and I do not think it is a story about the Irish diaspora. I looked at the AHD entry for diaspora before I made the second revert. Maybe some others will join in and add their views here. Eric ^talk 19:39, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest in editing wikipedia articles. Please read WP:CATDEF and WP:CATVER. In respect to the first guideline the ID would need to be one of the defining features of the film. This film isn't about the diaspora. The fact that a character (or their ancestors) in a film were born in Ireland does not mean that the film is about ID. The second policy requires that sourced info about a film being about the ID has to be in the article before it can be placed in the category. Until that exists the addition of the category is WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Please understand that categories are different from a list article. Those have more leeway about what can be included - though references are still needed. Just to reiterate a category needs meet Wikipedia:Defining#From Wikipedia:Categorization § Defining. MarnetteD|Talk 22:39, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Genre

I think it should be classified as an epic film. It is after all, over 3 hours Stephanie921 (talk) 03:23, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Info in articles is based on reliable sources. A films run time does not determine whether it is considered an epic. MarnetteD|Talk 14:08, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

What determines whether it's an epic? And yes ik they need to have WP:RS but genres on other articles don't seem to have it. It's not in the infobox with sources like the BBFC, or from broadsheets for example cos it's usually taken as a basic aspect with no need for discussion. I don't see the sources for the other genres on the Lyndon article. What am I missing? :) Stephanie921 (talk) 14:17, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFF for other articles and WP:BURDEN for what you are missing. MarnetteD|Talk 15:07, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

events which always were

What the hell does this mean? It should be explained more clearly. 2601:188:CB7F:7660:512E:7D36:D4A4:10F7 (talk) 17:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Film review

Wikipedia errored when writing roger ebert gave Barry Lyndon 3 and 1/2 🌟 stars. He actually gave ut 4 🌟 stars. 67.40.199.241 (talk) 02:54, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

He gave it three and a half stars in 1975, and four stars in 2009. The article mentions both reviews under "Box office and reception: Contemporaneous" and "Box office and reception: Re-evaluation", and both are linked in the references. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 07:01, 19 June 2024 (UTC)