Talk:Furry convention

An entry from Furry convention appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 30 November, 2006.

Wikipedia

External links

I'm not sure we should be linking to outside, unaffiliated wikis, when there is an article on the subject in Wikipedia. I'm particularly referring to links such as Anthrocon and Further Confusion. Mak (talk) 18:24, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the entire Furry convention#List of furry conventions by attendance section seems questionable to me. It's bumping up against WP:NOT a directory. Mak (talk) 18:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The idea of this article is so that Wikipedia can give some small amount of coverage to these conventions without actually having separate articles on each of them, which keep getting deleted because separately, they're not considered notable. The concept of having a consolidated list that pointed people over to WikiFur to avoid further creations was specifically raised by other wikipedians during some of these AfDs. See also a more general expression of this concept at WikiEN-l.

Put simply, Wikipedia doesn't seem to want to cover these topics in depth. WikiFur does. There is (from what I can see in AfDs) general agreement that WikiFur is doing a good job at it, and people are obviously looking for these terms in Wikipedia otherwise the articles wouldn't be created or visited. So, the appropriate solution seems to be to give them the verifiable information about furry conventions in general, and then point people who want information on the particular conventions to WikiFur, rather than have them search and see nothing (and maybe try to write something that just gets put through an AfD).

The links for articles that exist already are currently setup to go to WikiFur like the rest, but the "main article" link goes to Wikipedia. If you really feel strongly about that, I wouldn't see the harm in just linking to the Wikipedia article, as the WikiFur articles are linked from them anyway. I didn't feel it appropriate to merge in the whole articles for cons like Anthrocon, as they'd just end up getting split out again. In practice, there is going to be a lot of information on the WikiFur articles that is not ever going to be on the Wikipedia articles, because it will never pass verifiability tests (who reported on furry conventions 15 years ago?). GreenReaper 19:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be a section addressing the question "what the hell?!?!?!?!"216.45.18.5 17:29, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

You probably want furry fandom for that. GreenReaper 17:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

List and lead paragraph

You might want to explain what furry fandom is in the lead paragraph. The way it essentially reads now is that a furry convention is a convention for furry people. That does not say much. How about: (begin) A furry convention is a formal gathering of people who appreciate the fictional combination of humans with non-human animals. These conventions permit people to meet, exchange ideas, do business, and participate in entertainment and recreation centered around attributing human characteristics and qualities to non-human beings. Originated in the mid-1980s in California, there now are over 25 furry conventions worldwide, most of which are held in North America and Europe for the benefit of members of the furry fandom. (end). Also, you might want to make the list a separate list article. One last point, isn't Japan huge on furry fandom-- Jreferee 01:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd been thinking the lead was a little too short as well. I wanted to get it up to start with, though, and it seemed to be sufficient, if not ideal. What "furry" is can be hard to pin down, which is why I tried to refer people to the article than explain it outright. I'm sure something can be done, though - right now I'm a little exhausted, but I'll look in the morning. As for the list, I'd have done that if it were a little longer. However, I don't think we're quite into list of science fiction conventions levels yet, and unlike that list, this is (to the best of my knowledge) comprehensive.

Japan is big on characters like Pokémon and Inuyasha, but they're not exactly the same thing. The closest established equivalent Japan has to furry fandom is kemono, and even there, though the content looks somewhat the same, it's coming at it from a slightly different direction. Kemono might be said to be their own equivalent of funny animal - the art form which led to furry fandom. There do appear to be furry fans there, and they have started their own convention, TransFur. It'd be interesting to go over and see their take on it. GreenReaper 02:12, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

"Reduced visibility"

"Often there is a "fursuit-friendly" dance prior to the main event, with raised lighting and slower music to accommodate the reduced visibility of fursuiters" - don't quite understand this sentence. Is "visibility" meant to be "mobility"? I don't see how someone dressed as a raccoon could be hard to see in any lighting, nor why the tempo of the music affects visibility. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 11:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

They might not be hard to see, but they might have trouble seeing, due to their masks and such. I'm assuming that was the intended meaning here. LordAmeth 11:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. The heads typically obscure vision (often the fursuiter has to look out of the mouth, which is why they're half-open most of the time). Their mobility is often affected as well. I've changed it to "with raised lighting and slower music to offset fursuiters' reduced visibility and mobility." GreenReaper 11:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I think 'vision' is a more accurate word than 'visibility' in that case. I've changed it. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 14:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Good call. I was trying to think of a better word, but for some reason "vision" just didn't occur to me. GreenReaper 14:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Badges: Unique to Furry Conventions?

In the "Did you know" section in which this article was featured, badges were listed as being one of the ways Furries identify themselves at Furry conventions, but it comes off as if only people at Furry conventions wear numerous badges as identification. I've been to enough science fiction conventions to know that it's not unique to furries to wear the badges from every convention you've attended. I'm not sure if this is important enough to even be addressed, but I wanted to point it out anyway. SailorAlphaCentauri 16:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

At furry conventions, people often commission artists in the Artists' Alley (or outside of conventions) to create custom badges that identify their character - here's an example. The badge does not just identify them by name, but by species/features/colouration as well. I'm not sure how much this applies to science fiction conventions, as I have only been to one, but it seemed like there were not many custom badges at them - just the badges given by the convention (which often have art on as well, but are not typically customized other than the name). GreenReaper 16:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Dealers den

Copied from User talk:GreenReaper, as it's relevant here . . .

Hello, I saw you were helping Argox with his Spanish translation of the article furry convention. While reading (and correcting) the translation, I came across an ambiguous phrase which could be translated to Spanish in two ways with different meanings:

(...) a Dealers Den where art and comic book distributors and other merchants can sell their wares for a fee

So, does it mean that the merchants have to pay a fee to be allowed to sell, or that (as is usually the case) it's the merchants who charge a fee to the buyers?

Thanks in advance for your help, --Fibonacci 11:31, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

You have found a phrase that could be explained better in the article. In fact, both meanings are implied here. The Dealers Den is a place where dealers (either professional artists with lots of prints or framed works, or dealers of other people's art/comics/books/T-shirts/plush toys/fashion accessories) may rent a table from the convention, for a price - at Anthrocon, anywhere from $75 for half a table (3 foot by 3 foot) to $525 for a square island (10 foot by 10 foot) [1]. They may then sell to the people who attend the convention.

This contrasts with the Artists' Alley, which usually does not charge artists for space to sell - however, the space is much smaller (see the pictures in the article to compare), there is no guarantee that they will get it if there are too many people (some conventions are starting to sell small badges to get a good place for $10-$20), they must remain there most of the time to keep their place, and they must only sell their own work.

Thank you for assisting Argox with the translation, and for your work against vandalism of the article. GreenReaper 23:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

List of sortable cons

The list of SF cons has morphed into a sortable table of conventions of all types. List of science fiction conventions We are merging some of the lists of cons that are now sparsely or little maintained into it. There is a column naturally where their individual subject matter is preserved. There are some furry cons there already. The value obtained is the ability to the view and to sort among many subject matters, by date, city, state, or country. --Tbmorgan74 22:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. On the one hand, it does seem appropriate for some of the conventions in the list on this page to be there - particularly the larger, long-running ones. On the other hand, there is more information here about the conventions than could be adequately represented in the list given there - and a few of the ones here probably don't meet widely-accepted definitions of "convention." I'll have a sweep through and see which one seem appropriate to add, as long as people aren't going to shout at me for conflating "furry" and "science fiction". ;-) GreenReaper 00:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

as far as I am concerned, I am advocating changing the name of that one to database of genre conventions. I would defer to your judgment on what furry con is suitable for that list. --Tbmorgan74 04:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

That csi episode

How does that episode of CSI represent or not furry cons? Excluding the murder of course?--Tbmorgan74 04:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

According to WikiFur, and my own personal experience, not very well, except maybe for the start bit when they're walking through the halls past people selling furry trinkets. Even there, there are way too many fursuiters around. The maximum proportion I have seen is 15%, at both Midwest FurFest 2006 and Further Confusion 2007. See also this thread.

Since I know you're waiting for the furpile image, here it is. Note the lack of people having sex. ;-) GreenReaper 18:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

CSI went for the shock factor and sensationalized the idea of a furry con quite a bit. It grossly misrepresents what actually happens at a typical furry con, though I believe there were a couple of conventions in the past (one ConFurence in particular) in which a "fursuit orgy" did happen. News of that might be what the CSI episode was partially based on. But in general, fursuiters are in the vast minority of regular furries, and fursuiters who use their suits for anything more than a costume to walk around in and entertain the public with are in the vast minority of fursuiters in general. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 23:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Questionable edit

I removed the following questionable statement and am copying it here in case it has any plausibility:

One of the biggest attendees is GuessMyUserName. He goes to every convention and wears a different fursuit to each one. His most notable one is the Lugia Fursuit.

--Mwalimu59 13:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

It may be true, but I don't see that it's really all that notable. GreenReaper 20:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Rainfurrest?

I'm just wondering if there's a reason it's not on the list of conventions, and if it should be on there, where would we stick it? ...or should we just wait a month and a half for it to occur, then start looking for sources?Bengaley 18:08, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I added it to the "Future Conventions" list. It should be moved to "Current Conventions" once it's over in August and they announce their registration numbers. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to keep on top of this, as well. Bengaley 21:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Possible Merger of Anthrocon, ConFurance, Eurofurence, and Further Confusion into this Article

Someone on the WP Anthropomorphic mentioned possibly merging the articles for all the major furry conventions into this article. I've taken the liberty of setting up this as a forum for discussion about that idea.

Personally, I don't like the idea - not only is there enough primary sources on Anthrocon, Confurance, Euro, and FC to keep them on their own page, merging them into one single page would create a very large mess. But it's not only up to me, hence this discussion. Bengaley 21:27, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Not a good idea. The articles about these are underdeveloped, but improving that is part of the point of the WikiProject. I'm sure there are verifiable sources available for them out there (Anthrocon alone had several from major Pittsburgh media sources this year and last). I merged and redirected the articles that I thought did not have such sources available or which would be too stubby when creating this article. GreenReaper 07:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

As you said, these were NeoFreak's notes apparently. *shrug* Copy-Paste tends to creat confusion =P. So I take it that nobody is seriously considering merging these articles together? ((I really need to learn to automatically 4x~ myself...))Bengaley 13:39, 10 July 2007 (UTC)