Talk:Motherfucker

Rather than a "see also", probably should just be a redirect. Also, isn't it usually a compound word (motherfucker)? Hmm, that appears to be a redirect to incest which doesn't match the common use of the word at all. --Brion 21:43 Jan 10, 2003 (UTC)

Just redirect it to fuck and mention that this is often used in the same context. -- Modemac

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Merriam-Webster dates the word fuck to 1952. This is significantly past the period of time implied by the article's notion that the term came about as a result of slave owners raping slave women. Is there any actual source for this information? --Michael 05:37 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the supposed origin of the term in slavery, but it certainly predates 1952 (although perhaps not in print). One anecdotal example was found by a friend who was researching old New Orleans police records concerning bars where music was played. Something along the line of in the late 1910s a man brought to court for stabbing someone told the judge that he had to stab the other guy, because of what the other guy had called him. The judge asked "what did he call you?" "He called me a motherf-----". --Infrogmation 16:06 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Kurt Vonnegut put this word in to the dialog of World War II soldiers in Slaughterhouse Five. Since this book was based in part on the author's own war experience, I'm inclined to think that this was not an anachronistic use.--Drvanthorp 17:17, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

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Moved:

Although often thought to relate to the widely condemned biological and cultural incest taboo, its origins are to be found in North American slavery. Here the sexual abuse of enslaved women often led to pregnancy. However the offspring were often enslaved like their mothers. Rather than refer to the man who impregnated their mother as father, the term motherfucker was often prefered. Similar grammatical forms are found in other african-english expressions such as babymother and babyfather.

I agree with Michael here. It's not the age of the term that's the problem, (as has been said, "Oedipus was the first motherfucker" <g>)it's this supposed derivation of it that's highly unlikely when you think about it. I'd like to see a source before it's put back. - Hephaestos

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The song you quote from the Bloodhound Gang is actually a parody of a Prodigy song. wouldnt it be mroe apropriate to use the line from the original song? Vroman 23:41 16 Jun 2003 (UTC)

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Great article, the grammar sings. --ShaunMacPherson 05:11, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

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The quote from the Bloodhound Gang seems a bit out of place. Scores of people have used the word to refer to just about anything under the sun, long before the members of that band were born. A more legitimate cultural reference would be better.

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Texas Courts of Appeals?

Can we get a citation for this Texas Courts of Appeals claim? Avitor 22:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Since the term is indisputedly African-American in origin, did Wikipedia consult any of us?

It's too bad many "scholarly" folk have a tendency to pontificate on a subject, presuming a certain level of knowledge on the matter, without having once bothered to consult the source. My experience has been that white folks are especially good at this when the subject of discussion is black folks and black culture.

They know it all.

Wikipedia: "In spite of overuse, the term is widely considered highly insulting when used in earnest. In recent years, 'motherfucker' is increasingly being used to describe inanimate objects, dating back to early hip hop culture."

Amusing. Any black person would have told Wikipedia’s etymological experts the use of “motherfucker” in this fashion predates hip-hop by several decades.

Giving credit where credit is due, however, Wikipedia's tracing of the term back to slavery appears entirely plausible/probable. It is clear "motherfucker" Because the institution of slavery so muddled bloodlines and tore apart family groupings, filial bonds often were in question or completely unpresumed/unknown. While likely relatively infrequent, closely related blacks unknowingly engaging in incestuous relationships would not have been unheard of. Family members often were sold to neighboring plantations and, depending on the age of the slave, kinship knowledge easily could be lost within even a generation.

"Motherfucker" was most certainly NOT used (contrary to the silly assertion of the Wikipedia listing) by the offspring of white rapists as a "preferred" term for "father." Such casual vulgarity would not have been practiced or tolerated in slave society. Like most expletives, "motherfucker" likely was then (as it is, still) used in a pejorative, figural sense, rather than in a literally descriptive one.

Nor is there any linguistic connection structurally between "motherfucker" and such current African-American expressions as "babyfather" or "babymama." Such a presumption demonstrates a lack of even a rudimentary understanding of the evolution of what is in some circles called "Black English" or "Ebonics," and does not hold up to even casual scrutiny. Linguistically, "motherfucker" is no different in structure from "cocksucker" or, for that matter, "bricklayer" or "sharecropper." Instead, it is far more plausible "motherfucker" referred to those unfortunate black men who, unaware of their lineage, were found to have slept with their mothers or other close relations.

Further, "motherfucker" may not be contemporaneous with slavery at all, even though it seems clear its origins are rooted in that despicable institution. The term could have originated after slavery, when, in the chaos and confusion following Emancipation, millions of black folks struck out on the open road, forming new communities and, with "play" relations, kinship bonds of choice beyond known or presumed bloodlines.

"Motherfucker" -- its ubiquitousness in today's society has desensitized many of us to its power. But back in the day, it was a fightin`, cuttin`, shootin`, bleedin`, dyin' word.

In a world where fathers knew not their daughters, nor sons their mothers, it was the ultimate nightmare, the ultimate shame, the ultimate insult -- the Oedipal curse as curse word.

-- deeceevoice, April 30, 2004

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I just realized I some time back inadvertently deleted the following comment by an unnamed contributor. (It was wholly accidental.) If I recall, the comment was posted June 3:

Im not quite certain why everyone has to have a racial identity. i myself have taken steps to become completely colrblind and just people solely on the quality of their charachter,not the color of their skin, something i dont think is being pushed very hard by the black community.

My apologies to the anonymous contributor. deeceevoice 02:54, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I hope you arnt one of those reparation people.

Well, golly. I hope you aren't one of those Klan cretins.

How the hell did reparations get into this? Frank-speak on the history of African-Americans in this nation in an APPROPRIATE context oughtn't be construed as an open invitation for guilt-ridden, defensive/offensive or well-meaning white folks to engage in Joycean, stream-of-consciousness comments or questions on matters of race and racism, generally -- or to confess their personal life philosophies. Focus, people! The subject under discussion here is "motherfucker." And lighten up, dammit! -- deeceevoice, June 8, 2004

To presume that someone who is black automatically knows more about black history than people of other colours who have made themselves known to the subject is just naive, and just as a reply to the heading: "Consault any of you"? what were "we" supposed to contact the official black people committie on wikipedia before daring to write one word about any subject touching them?. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 15:22, 2004 Jun 14 (UTC)

No. That's not what I said. Besides, I wrote that before I understood fully how Wikipedia operates. I didn't realize then that Wikipedia makes no pretensions of accuracy, that it's a kind of free-for-all. The democracy of the notion is kind of cool, actually. The point is it's quite clear from the statements I cited that the author of the pertinent entry is not black. While he/she may "have made themselves known to the subject," the subject matter clearly has not been introduced sufficiently to them. The sensibilities expressed are so far off the mark, they really ARE laughable -- and, indeed, somewhat insulting. Yep, far-fetched presumptions about black history and culture are fine for comic relief. But when they are produced in a format where they could be construed as fact -- that's pretty galling. But an "official black people committee"? Gee, thanks for pullin' my coat. *jumping up and down excitedly* I wanna join!! :-p -- deeceevoice, June 15, 2004

Because of Wikipedia's free-for-all nature, you are more than welcome to jump in and lend your touch to the article; I do not know whether a "white author" bias exists in the article (or in Wikipedia articles as a whole), but if you believe it does, please help to correct it! Just keep in mind our neutral point of view policy. -- Wapcaplet 22:45, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I don't know if there's a "white author bias" or not on Wikipedia. Probably so, but those are your words -- not mine. My comments relate specifically to the inaccuracy of the referenced entry, which, it seems to me, is more about ignorance and the arrogance of presumption than, strictly, "bias."

To reiterate, if you feel it's inaccurate, fix it. --Puffy jacket 12:10, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Motherfucker to Mofo

"Could someone edit in how the term 'Mofo' came into being? I don't see how theres an 'O' after the 'F', when F!@#ers second letter is 'U'."

The changing of a single letter over time is simply that and is a trivial thing. In some local dialects, "street" has become "skreet" or "skree'."

Word play is part of the culture. It's all just not that serious. Considering jazz, scat and Snoop Dogg's ghetto esperanto, you're wondering about the bending of a single vowel? Call it spontaneous mutation. Call it subversion. Call it improvisation.

Or, better yet, don't.

Loosen up. You'll live longer. :-p

-- deeceevoice, April 30, 2004

First off, ghetto esperanto?! Thats just weird man

Secondly, the main reason i posted this is because i had that word stuck in my head

Thirdly, the words you just mentioned were all due to there similarities to other sounds. 'O' is such a different sound then 'U', that i think a logical train of developement is necessary (then again, maybe im just a suburban white boy)

Yep, free-spirited, frivolous "ghetto esperanto."

Day-um. No offense intended, "just a suburban white boy" -- just a little levity. It really ISN'T that serious. It's nothing more than a little vowel bending. IMO, relatively trivial. But "street" to "skreet" is consonant bending. My bad. How about "hungry" to "hongry" (a "country" pronunciation now generally used to mean SERIOUSLY hungry/hungry like a fieldhand)? It's the same skip from short "u" to long "o". Or "ugly" to "oo-ooo-oooo-gly" (as in godawful ugly)? Word play/spontaneous mutation -- part of our oral tradition. It's nothing more serious than that. deeceevoice - June 8, 2004

Fix the article then. It's open for edit. What you've written makes intuitive sense, but a book reference would help. - Hephaestos|§ 04:19, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

Okay, Okay, OKAY! I finally did it. I was reluctant to do so; I'm a newcomer. But after editing sections of "funk," I got over my reluctance. It was a carefully considered piece. I hope the original contributors have not been offended. I considered putting in a reference to my more lengthy explanation of the slavery connection, but I thought it might be inappropriate/seen as self-serving -- besides I don't yet know protocol or process. As it is, the definition is a virtual complete rewrite. I didn't mention hip hop, because m.f. is overused by a LOT of different people/segments of society. It's simply that the power of the electronic media has made hip hop the most obvious/egregious culprit. Then once I omitted hip hop, the reference to the "Corporate Motherfucker" website (or whatever it was) seemed irrelevant/superfluous. I visited it, and it didn't seem particularly meritorious of specific mention.

So, are ya happy now? If not, I'm sure you'll let me know.  :-p - deeceevoice, June 20, 2004

Hephaestos, I didn't thank you for movin' that stuff off the first page when I felt I was too new to do so. I'm glad SOMEBODY finally did. Thanks.

"the cynical destruction of the black family"?

Historically, it was a vicious taunt, a damning insult -- and a veiled allusion to the cynical destruction of the black family under the brutality of chattel slavery.

Does someone have a source for that? This page is starting to read as some kind of newspaper column. --Puffy jacket 05:10, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, whaddya know?!! A comment. You'll be pleased, Puffy -- maybe not -- that I've edited that phrase. I struggled with it from the beginning/didn't like it. It bothered me every time I read it -- but for different reasons. I didn't want folks to read it and think it implied forced incest was a common practice during slavery. A source? I doubt one exists. I sought to provide some historical context in my earlier comments in this section inre the cultural significance of verbal aggression and its various uses -- most notably in this instance, the practice of "signifyin'." The incest taboo has been around so long, if "motherfucker" were simply about that, it probably would have been in the English lexicon centuries ago. But this is about a whole 'nother level of verbal violence. The power of "motherfucker" as an insult among African-American men came from far more than what it said; it was all about what it EVOKED. It was calling someone so pathetically stupid, so wretched they didn't know who they mama wuz. It's about reminding them of their people's powerlessness (and their own). (If a man can't claim/control his own family, what kind of man IS he?) It's about slavery and white supremacy, and shame and self-loathing and rage turned inward and then projected outward again at "your own kind." And that all bringss us back to the art of the spoken word and verbal aggression -- readin' someone out loud, playin' the dozens [see "playing the dozens"], actin' a fool and cuttin' up. And sometimes it got outta hand. Sometimes by design. -- deeceevoice June 22, 7:58 a.m.

Sir, you just gave the most intellectual description of a vulgar term I've read in many years. May you enjoy many years as a English professor for the rest of your life. Seriously. No I mean it.  ;) (posted by User:Zalasur April 27, 2004)

Why, thanks...I think. ('S not exactly my idea of a dream career.) But I'm not a "sir"; I'm a woman. Peace. :) deeceevoice 10:48, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My mistake... on the internet, no one knows you're a... well ya know. I didn't mean to chart a future career for you. I'm merely stating a wish that explicitely stated that my former language professors took an appreciation for profanity. After all, when learning a new language, what's the first thing you learn? The swear words, of course. Come on, admit it, y'all. -- Zalasur 05:57, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah. I got your meaning. :) After doing Spanish in high school and then again in college, I had to wait for a couple of decades to pass, when I took a Spanish class at a neighborhood learning center, to be officially instructed in cursing in my second language. A class of adults, it's what we all wanted to know. By then, though, I'd gotten some of the choicest words on my own; the rest, unfortunately, I've forgotten. :( deeceevoice 06:28, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It struck me that "muthafucka" isn't a contraction; it's simply a phonetic spelling. Made the change -- deeceevoice June 28, 2004

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If you "correct" grammar, make sure it's a correction, rather than the substitution of a preferred form:

Main Entry - ubiq·ui·tous; pronunciation - yü-'bi-kw&-t&s; function - adjective. Date: 1837.

Existing or being everywhere at the same time, constantly encountered, WIDESPREAD. - ubiq·ui·tous·ly adverb; - ubiq·ui·tous·ness noun

But, yeah, "ubiquity" is better. So, if you wanna make the change, I think it's a good one -- but not as a "correction." deeceevoice 10:02, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A quick Google search show ubiquity and ubiquitousness as synonyms. But ubiquity is used more than 50 times more often one web pages. Rmhermen 18:31, Jul 10, 2004 (UTC)

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Didn't anyone take the hint? I can't STAND the form of the word I used! Yes, it's accurate. It's acceptable, but clumsy as hell. So, I'm changing it -- but not as a "correction." Besides, who could forget Roy Ayres' "Ubiquity"? (Apparently, EYE did *hanging head in shame*) And nothing on Wikipedia is sacrosanct -- least of all a discussion about the origins of the word "motherfucker." :-p deeceevoice 23:23, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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Online Etymology Dictionary [1] in its entry for "fuck" gives "Intensive form mother-fucker suggested from 1928; motherfucking is from 1933". That probably refers to the written examples. Any other sources for its origin. It is not easy to research online. Rmhermen 02:37, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

See the second entry on this page regarding the police report. The term is considerably older than its first print appearance. As I said, I doubt you'll find any early explications of its origins, given the nature of the word, and its source. It's not exactly the kind of thing one would find treatises on. But the violence it provoked in the referenced context probably gives you some sense of the veracity of my explanation of the term. Again, see also playing the dozens.deeceevoice 07:24, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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Hey I heard MF derives from the practice of gang raping slaves into submission. Modern, documented instances of this would be the Balkan wars or Abu Ghraib, I know it sounds unbelievable for civilised folks. Still these rapists (rape as a weapon of war) were and are seen as the scum of society. As well, while apparently a 'suday barbecue' was OK for bigoted southerners in the US, having their youths do those things in gangs wasnt. -- posted by User:149.225.240.153

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Is motherfucker really african in origin? In all Slavic languages you have insults like russian "yob tvoyu mat'" or Polish "matkojebca" Szopen 13:01, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There is no history of the English word before it appeared in use in African-American communities. The statement in the text is correct. deeceevoice 08:58, 6

Nov 2004 (UTC)

More motherfuckers should read this motherfucking article. Alexander 007 06:11, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It's not black in origin

Go to Swearsaurus, which has extensive listing of obscenities in all langauges.

Click on pretty much any language and you'll find the concept of someone who fucks their mother. It seems to be one of the oldest and most universal insults known to mankind.

You're right and wrong. The concept is universal; the word itself is African-American in origin. deeceevoice 01:46, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Maryland Farmer???

The part where it said about "Maryland Farmer" struck me as rather dubious, so I did a Google seach. There were very few pages that mentioned "motherfucker" and "Maryland Farmer" without mentioning "Wikipedia. [2] And even among those remaining hits, most (if not all) of them seem to be mirrors of, copies of, or references to this Wikipedia article. The story may still be true, but someone needs to cite a source. At any rate, I can say for sure that the story about the Maryland Farmers' Association is not "oft-recounted." (Or at least it wasn't before this article was written.) Blackcats 07:10, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

You're kidding -- right? I thought you were questioning the incident. It's a well known fact in the African American community. "Jive Maryland farmer" is as vintage a 1960s/1970s phrase as "jive turkey," "Everything is everything," or "Solid." You hear it in the music of the day and in the movies of the time. I figured you'd question the incident again, but the phrase itself is common knowledge -- to us, anyway. (And, yes, I'm pretty sure it was Julian Bond. Next time I run into him, I'll ask him. But, yeah. I know. "No original research.") deeceevoice 20:25, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't want to have a protracted revert-war, so for now I'm just going to mark it as disputed. In the mean time someone can try and find a source for it. I'm not sure how "common knowledge" it is, because I couldn't find anything about it online that wasn't Wikipedia or a Wikipedia mirror. But of course not everything's online, and there weren't too many African Americans online in the 60s/70s (or too many of any other people for that matter!) So it may just have been a phrase that died out before the internet became popular. I've heard of "jive turkey" and jive this and that, but before reading this article, I'd never heard of "Maryland farmer" (jive or otherwise) being used to mean "motherfucker." So yeah - at any rate, it may well be true, but let's find a source. Blackcats 22:17, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Classic Wikipedia silliness. I really don't care if you put a POV tag on it or not. Do you know any African Americans over the age of 40? (Probably not.) Betcha there's a whole lot of shyt you haven't heard of about African American culture. I'm certainly not going to spend my time trying to "prove" something like this to you to your satisfaction. *x* deeceevoice 09:02, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I've never heard of the term Maryland farmer, but I'm not any kind of American, so that's unsurprising. What I have heard of, and was reminded of when reading this article, is the term 'melon farmer'. I remember several years ago a teacher of mine told me it was dubbed into a few movies to make them suitable for TV. The first few results in a google search seem to confirm this. [3] I then had a look around Wikipedia just to be sure it wasn't already an entry, and found this. Ha! salt3d 04:57, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Rest assured the phrase is "Maryland farmer." "Melon" farmer is probably a screwed up understanding of it as pronounced in AAVE -- much like the way whites misunderstood "woof ticket" to be "wolf ticket. deeceevoice 01:47, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

After a google search turned up virtually no references to the term "maryland farmer" as a euphemism for "motherfucker" that were not mirrors or forks of this article, I've taken the line out. It may well have been in the 60's and 70's, and if it was so widely used as has been claimed, a reference should be easy to find. I find it odd that if it was "in the music of the day and in the movies of the time" that there are no references to it in the numerous movie quote/song lyric sites out there.Brian Schlosser42 21:46, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Whether or not the term "Maryland farmer" was routinely used by blacks, and I'm perfectly willing to believe it was (take the word of a black man on this matter over the word of my pasty ass), the euphemism "melon farmer" (which may well be a corrupted version of "Maryland farmer") was definitely used in the TV versions of movies including Repo Man and Die Hard. Anyone who has ever seen these movies on network TV knows this. If the censors screwed up a misheard AAVE term because they had no idea what the words really were, well, that just makes it even funnier, and it was pretty damn funny already, but it doesn't mean that the actors who did the dubbing weren't told to say "melon farmer." It's pretty obvious that they were. IMDB lists[4] the "melon farmer" rendition, though admittedly IMDB is sometimes not all that picky. Anyway, maybe one of us motherfucking afficionados has a closed-caption VHS copy of a TV broadcast of one of these films and can put the issue to rest once and for all. As this is a high-profile and memorable broadcast euphemism for "motherfucker," it is worthy of mention in the article once verified, I think. (Of course, I'd say that, seeing as how I added a mention only to see it rv'd in minutes.) Jerry Kindall 04:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC) edited Jerry Kindall 06:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC) (yeah, two months later, I was revisiting my watch pages)

US Origin?

Regardless of whether it was coined by black slaves, can we at least agree that it came from the USA? The OED (original 2nd ed. print) says "originally US" if you want a source. Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _{talk contrib} 04:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The Mothers

In my day, the term was used as a friendly term to describe soldiers in the United States Army. It was the shortened version of GDMFSOBs. They were also called the Septics, which is probably worse, but still friendly. I lived in Great Britain for years, and the term was not considered particularly bad, as described in this article. Wallie 21:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Cantonese Triad Influence

The origin of the phrase "mother fucker" is possibly due to confluence of African American and Cantonese influences. The Cantonese profanity "fuck your mother" has been in common use for at least the last hundred years. The Cantonese usage has a few variations.

1. The complete phrase in Cantonese is "fuck your mother's smelly (putrid) cunt(female reproductive genitalia)".
2. Fuck your mother.
3. Fuck your mother's cunt.
4. Fuck your old mother's putrid cunt.
5. Fuck your mother's old cunt.

This Cantonese profanity has influenced the profanity of English speakers of Chinese ancestry in Malaysia and Singapore and parts of Southeast Asia at least since the end of WW2. Consequently, English speakers of non-Chinese ancestry adopted it into common use. These are the variations of the phrase when spoken in English which has been in common use in Southeast Asia since the 1970's.

1. Fuck your mother.
2. Go fuck your mother.
3. Mother-fucking idiot.
4. Mother-fucking bastard.
5. Bloody mother-fucking bastard. (This variation is a confluence of British (bloody bastard) and Cantonese (fuck your mother) vulgarities possibly due to British colonialism in Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore).
6. Fuck your mother's smelly ass.
7. Your mother's smelly vagina (possibly used to denounce someone's credibililty - as believable as your mother's smelly vagina/cunt. "His birthday party was as great as his mother's smelly vagina."
8. A rarely used phrase is - fuck your mother's bald vagina. This a result of pidgen usage confusing between the terms vagina and vulva.

A consequence of the Cantonese phrase having influence in Malay profanity is the Malay profanity "puki-ma-lu", which translates to "your mother's cunt". However, it is probably more due to the influence of Fujianese profanity or of both. There is also a Tamil profanity of the same meaning. It is a possibility that a similar phrase is found in Thai at that same time too.

Therefore, since the 1970's, Malaysia and Singapore had been fertile ground where the "mother fucking" phrase would sometimes be uttered in all five languages/dialects (Cantonese, Fujianeses, Tamil, Malay and English) within the same argument. A late example(circa 1988), "Khan-ni-niah [presumably Fujianese profanity], this blood-sucking chundi [presumably Tamil profanity] government needs to get rid of those ass licking ministers with their mother fucking policies, puki-ma [Malay profanity]!" was heard being uttered by a native after office hours in an American multinational site. The same profane phrase being expressed in four languages within a single sentence.

The phrase "mother fucker" did not surface into common usage in the United States until the late 1980's. The hypothesis and observable evidence is the confluence and cooperation between Chinese Triads and African American drug gangs, which became more common in the 1970's. An observation in the 1970's of a confrontation between a Cantonese shop keeper and a Tamil member of a local gang in Malaysia could provide support to this relationship where the shop keeper told the gangster to move on by saying in English "Go! Fuck your mother!" The gang member's response was "You fuck your mother, you mother-fucking shit."

One could imagine similar situations having developed in New York City or San Francisco with drug deals gone sour between two cooperating gangs, one Cantonese American and the other African American. The phrase "mother fucker" has also replaced "cock sucker" as the extreme profanity of choice in the United States around the 1980's.

The peculiarity in Malaysia and Singapore is the phrase used in the 1970's was "mother-fucking" rather than "mother-fucker". This is probably due to influence of British English where the gerund is used more often than in United States English - as in the Malaysian profanity - Ass Licking Balls Carrying Bastard (someone who patronises his superiors to the extremes, often to gain favour). Incidentally, "balls carrying" is another result of Cantonese and Fujianese profanity - which in turn resulted in the Malaysian/Singaporean English speaker's profanity "Assistant Balls Carrier", commonly abbreviated to ABC. e.g., "He certainly has no problems getting the promotion since he's constantly the ABC." The phrase "Ass licking balls carrying mother fucking piece of shit" would carry verbal violence to the utmost extremes.

Dispute on the extent of Asian influence would range from merely encouraging an already existent phrase to surface to the streets, to being the origin of the phrase. Ancestral worship and filiel piety being a hallmark of Chinese culture since ancient times, to curse your adversary's ancestors or parents would therefore be the most extreme verbal violence you could mete out. It is difficult to deny the coincidence of increase in Asian emigration and criminal activity with the rise of the usage of the phrase "mother fucker" in the United States and that a phrase having been in common use in various parts of Asia had had its influence exported to the United States either to precipitate its use or to become the origin of its use.

Miamidot 04:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Ackward

Anyone else feel this paragraph:

This phrase originates before America was even discovered, the Lords and Kingsmen would ride up on their horses into the Villages and find a peasent woman they wanted to fuck (engage in sexual intercourse with) and go ahead and do so, often it would actually be rape, many of the women would be married with children, so the kids began to call these so called men, Mother Fuckers, because they were fucking the mothers of the Village.

is a little ackward. For starters, why 'so called' men? They're men. Perhaps disgusting men but I doubt think there was any suggestion they weren't men. The often it would actually be rape bit also seems a bit ackward (obviously it was usually rape). All in all I think the paragraph needs to be reworked, any suggestions? 203.109.240.93 13:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Songs

The "Songs" section seems to be getting ridiculous. Should every song that contains the word be included? I can see those songs that actual use it in the title but simply because it's in the song once or twice? I removed "No Warning Shot" by Six Feet Under a bit ago since it is only used in the song itself (albeit about 8 times) but it adds nothing to the article. Is there any value to listing these songs that only contain the word or are they simply to titillate? -- Borameer ™ 16:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

No, not every mention of MF should be noted. Perhaps we should weed somehow for particularly notable occurences (ie, one's that spurred debate, news, boycotts, etc). --ZimZalaBim (talk) 05:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

See also

The see also section and the celebrity uses section are beyond absurd and will never ever ever be complete I am removing them as they are far from encyclopedic.IvoShandor 13:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

incest?

oops did I delete that. next time sign with the four tildes ~ ~ ~ ~ (you don't use the spaces)