Talk:First-person shooter

Prey

just wanted to mention, that Prey isn't the first game with gravity flipping and wall walking. the first game i know that has these features is the Serious Sam Demo.

Prey really needs to come off the significant games list, there isn't anything really new there, it's a nice nostalgia trip, but, the actual game material itself is dated. The only thing unique to it is the technical functioning of the portals in engine, and that's honestly, pretty obscure stuff.

The post death coming back to life, I remember seeing in a game Tomb of the Taskmaker, back in the 90s, (though admittedly not a FPS), the general concept behind having to view the world in multiple modes popped up in Undying. I never finished that game so I'm not sure if it changed environments, but, if you didn't use the scrye you could be attacked by enemies that only existed psychically IIRC. Anyway, my two cents. (StarkeRealm 19:06, 17 August 2007 (UTC))

there's prey, and then there's prey. when the original was under development it broke any number of boundaries, portals being only the neatest - Advocate —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.51.243.107 (talk) 05:08, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Any issues with suggesting a merge of Doom clone into this?

I'm trying to clean up another genre article ("GTA clone" into "Sandbox"), and someone pointed out that Doom clone existed and was separate from this article. I see no point in why Doom clone needs its own article - the info in this article fully covers it beyond the nice graph that article has (but easily added). I see that the same merge was suggested last year, mainly because this article is about the history of the game and "Doom clone" is about the genre, but if you look at platform game , another genre article but with a GA status, they also have sub-genres of the platformer, which definitely can be said about "Doom clone" being a sub-genre of an FPS, and then which you can then be free to define othes such as tactical, stealth, RPG-based, and so forth.

Certainly the size of this article is pretty long, but I think that if you consider having a section on sub-genres, you don't need to list every single FPS game that came out, only notable examples within the history and the genres. --Masem 13:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

doom clone is only an earlier name for first person shooter. they're exactly the same thing -Advocate —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.51.243.107 (talk) 05:10, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Jurassic Park: Trespasser

I know this game was a flop, but it should probably be mentioned in the "selected important games in FPS development" section for having the earliest incorperation of shaders and ragdoll physics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.8.10.196 (talk) 18:19, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Fan site?

I don't see anything in this page that makes it seem like a fan site to me--does someone want to explain this designation? PotatoKnight 07:52, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Made use of a new graphics engine featuring hitherto unseen real-time lighting and shadows, used exclusively to create an atmosphere of fear and danger for the player. Essentially a "re-telling" of the original Doom story, and in many ways a throwback to some of the techniques used in earlier FPSes, the main selling point for the game was actually its graphics engine. Using cutting-edge technologies, id Software created one of the most powerful graphics engines to date. As with previous Doom and Quake engines, it is being widely licensed to developers.

Bolded areas are blatantly POV, and that's from one paragraph about one game still remaining in the article. The article is full of such statements about many games that should be factualized and sourced, or removed. Also, this article is about the genre, not about people's personal favorite games. Even if all of the above statements about Doom 3 were indisputably true, it's still worth asking how this is relevant to the genre, which largely has not adopted Doom 3's gameplay. Which brings us to the last point, which is that most of these discussions fail to mention criticisms or failures of games in FPS, making it one-sided and therefore fancruft. As an example, the game Daikatana is probably more notable (for its abject failure) than Doom 3 (for its moderate success), but Daikatana isn't discussed anywhere in the article. Ham Pastrami 11:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Ham, your criteria for removing all "personal" sites from the links section doesn't seem to involve any criteria such as "useful" or "valid" or "non-biased" at all. I'm not sure how "personal" could even BE a criteria for whether a site should be listed here by ANY definition. My site, for example, has far more FPS content than BluesNews (a link I added) and has nothing in any way biased except for reviews, which can't ever be said to NOT be biased. Is it because I don't have anything commercial on it either? Oh wait, that makes me LESS biased, ie More Acceptable/relevant, etc. etc. Is the point to make this article fit some criteria of neutrality or to make it useful for the people (mostly fans) who show up here? In either case, removing links isn't going to accomplish it. And again, my site is one of, if not THE best resource for FPS info on the web. That's not biased. I've got the most complete list of the genre ever compiled which in and of itself is a prime resource without regard to the screenshots, videos, demos, soundtracks, full downloads, and etc. that can be found there, all free, all non-biased, entirely by a fan of the genre and precisely the sort of resource which SHOULD be linked here.

If you insist on removing some links, how about a REASON for doing so?! Every site with so much as a review can said to be non-neutral. That's not enough to remove them here. Even BluesNews, which more or less only reports what it sees, still can be said to have a definate Pro-FPS bias.

68.54.56.198 16:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)Advocate (http://firstpersonshooters.net/)

Wikipedia's policy on external links strongly discourages linking to personal web sites or blogs, regardless if they're non-biased or otherwise. --Masem 16:56, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Meaning what exactly? That it's not owned by a corporation? This is not criteria which has any meaning to it's usefulness to Wikipedia. I'd be happy to get corporate sponsorship if that will make you feel that I've got a more proper resource. Consider the site on it's merits, not the rules (excuse me, guidelines). I do not undertake to defend the inclusion of other sites only because mine is the perfect example of what SHOULD be included.

68.54.56.198 17:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)Advocate (http://firstpersonshooters.net/)