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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 24.188.131.228 (talk) at 02:34, 5 February 2008 (→Outdated: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Possibly not apropos...

I'm reading the Shanameh, which is the book of Persian kings. There was a hero named Sam, and his son, Zal, is referred to quite often as the "son of Sam." I'm not suggesting an Iranian connection, the Shanameh is quite accessible to the Westerner. For instance, in Roger Zelazny's "Lord of Light," the main character is named Sam and also called "Binder of Demons." The Shanameh refers to a "Binder of Demons" although it wasn't Sam that had that distinction.

Could be just a coincidence, but perhaps it is an avenue worth exploring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.121.166.99 (talk) 17:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I first heard about Berkowitz after reading a passage from the Shanameh, and heard the claim that son of "Sam" refers to the Sam in the story. Any credible evidence of this? 66.41.62.136 22:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question...

Should Berkowitz be removed from the "Jewish Americans" category because of his rejection of Judaism and his claim to be a born-again Christian?

No, he doesn't practice Judaism, but one doesn't lose their Jewishness. It's more than religion. 66.75.8.138 09:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But if you are argueing he was Jewish by birth, that's wrong too. He was adopted. And he never strongly accepted Judaism. Before and after his killings, he toyed with christianity. And he was never strongly "Jewish" in a religious sense. HomsarII 00:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ignore above. It turns out his birth mother was Jewish too, and the mother's religion is controlling. HomsarII 00:31, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How do we know his birth mother was Jewish? Any sources other than his own?Endabusenow (talk) 13:16, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The first external link says he killed Donna Lauria on July 29, 1976, not Jody Valentini. Can anybody shed any light on this? Betelgeuse 18:59, 8 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Radio Interview Information

In a radio interview David claims that pornography addiction was a contributing factor to his actions. It's probably not a popular fact, but I think it would be an insightful addition to the article if someone can find some written information about it. — SimonEast 05:40, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)


In a radio interview Berkowitz said that his real parents were of Jewish heritage. Where does this Falco name fit in? FrancisDrake 16:10, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

His birth father Tony falco was an Italian American Catholic. Ony his mother was Jewish and her parents strongly objected to the marriage. Berkowitz was a paranoid shizophrenic which may have compounded his resentment at being adopted. Medication for this disorder was inadequate in the 1970's and his adoptive parents may not have aware of his problem or have sought help for him.Dakota 22:17, September 2, 2005 (UTC)


Are these radio interviews linked in the "External links" sections? They'd be valuable resources. Thanks, -Willmcw 18:13, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

Really?

365 years?

I believe he got 6 consecutive life sentences or something. 365 years is estimating somebody lives until they are 60 with 6 sentences. He probably should be getting about 480 years.

I have no idea how consecutive life sentences are worked out and the article doesn't explain that well although it'll be best to ask there. However your sums seem a bit off. The life expentancy at birth, in the US, for both sexes and all races in 1980 was ~74 years, not 80... Nil Einne

The BBC article says 365 years. Lewiscode 19:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A life sentence is 100 years so he would be in jail for 600years 365 or 480 years and that is stat from crimnal justice class i took in High School because they can give someone 99 years.74.133.247.221 02:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)Savannah[reply]

Citation for Supreme Court Cases?

The article mentions that several Supreme Court cases found laws similiar to New York's Son of Sam laws were unconstitional. I was hoping there would be a cite in the source section for this statement.

Son of sam law unconstitutional???

This is clearly misleading. The "Son of Sam" laws are still in effect in New York though probably not in the form alluded to. Further, a number of states have their own versions. Really, what needs to be done is to explain is what the Son of Sam laws do and what was struck down.

The statement is extremely funny as I am in the process of writing a convict a letter from the office of my firm explaining how this law works. Hence, if I am writing the letter, and the statute is popularly entitled "Son of Sam," and I'm discussing the operation of the valid law, the son of sam statute cannot be unconstitutional.

Falacious reasoning? Everything's metaphysical I suppose. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.179.107.240 (talk • contribs) .

I guess the liberties need to be taken to clarify and the Son of Sam laws should have their own article, no? 69.17.59.230 23:46, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. In any case, I would assume that anon, who sounds like a lawyer can explain the history and background behind these laws well and what did happen in 1991 so hopefuly he or she could help write the article. Nil Einne 18:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Son of Sam law is absolutely unconstitutional. 502 U.S. 105; 112 S. Ct. 501; 116 L. Ed. 2d 476; 1991 U.S. LEXIS 7172; 60 U.S.L.W. 4029; 19 Media L. Rep. 1609. Those are the parallel citations.

Blame / More Detail

"Berkowitz also claims to not be the Son Of Sam shooter, but merely one of the many look out men. In his claims he puts the blame on John "Wheaties" Carr as one of the shooters, as well as Carr's brother, Micheal Carr, whom he claimed to be the shooter in the Queens disco shooting."

I do not believe he is attempting to put the blame elsewhere when he makes these claims. He also never said he was just a look out men, that he never shot anyone, which is what this article is saying. Berkowitz has said that he was the gunmen on several of the murders, he has said specifically which ones, but that for some he was only a look out man. There are many who believe Berkowitz did not act alone, you can give more credit to this theory. I think this section of the article should be cleaned up and more details of Berkowitz's crimes can be given.


I agree. According to Berkowitz's own website, he DOES NOT DENY that he committed the murders. Over and over again, in multiple places, he takes full blame for the lives lost. In fact, on the front page, he even calls himself a serial killer. These portions of the article need to be cleaned up, as Berkowitz currently does NOT put the blame on anyone else for his crimes. --70.125.41.24 22:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In the crimelibrary.com article about Berkowitz it says that he later admitted the murders were basically for his own amusement, he wasn't insane at the time of the murders and there was no Satanic cult involved. [[1]]

Ressler made it clear that he didn't buy the demon dog theory one bit and eventually he was able to get the truth out of Berkowitz. The demon story was to protect him when and if he was caught so that he could try to convince the authorities he was insane. He admitted to Ressler "that his real reason for shooting women was out of resentment toward his own mother, and because of his inability to establish good relationships with women." He would become sexually aroused in the stalking and shooting of women and would masturbate after it was over.

--Auspx 03:20, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistancy

The text says both that he claimed that Carr was a demon, and that his lab was a demon. 198.82.59.174 20:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing

I am not familiar with details of Berkowitz' crimes, nor his arrest, nor trial. This article sheds almost no light on the subjects. No detailed account of his crimes is given at all, it is unclear how he was arrested. Look at articles about other famous serial killers for good examples. This one clearly needs to be expanded. - idiotoff 06:41, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Letter information missing

The first letter is suddenly quoted without any introduction. When was it sent? To whom? etc 163.192.21.44 22:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seinfeld

There is no episode of Seinfeld called "the Van." This is either a bad reference or bad information. Does the poster know where it is from?

Somebody get rid of all the useless links. I got rid of some of them, but I'm too lazy to get rid of the rest

Accuracy Disputed

David Berkowitz was tried and convicted of multiple murders. Full stop. Lopping the "MSNC" report in the beginning of this article suggests that the man was wrongly convicted. This is flat out wrong. Unless New York State officially reopens this case (which I have never ever heard of them even considering) then the facts stand. Conspiracy theories abound everywhere and I do not think they should be given equal time merely because they present an "entertaining" sidebar. Unless someone can produce hard evidence that Berkowitz was wrongly accused or convicted then the MSNC part should be removed from the begnning and placed somewhere else in the article. Remember, Berkowitz was tried and convicted. End of story.

I don't think that section implies that he was wrongly convicted at all. It doesn't read that way to me. Instead, I read it as saying that some law enforcement people feel that Berkowitz may not have been the sole person responsible for the murders. Basically, they don't question whether he was a mass murderer, they have questions about whether another murderer may still be out there. - Flooey 21:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This case has not been re-opened. What these detectives are saying now is pure speculation, not fact. How can it belong in a Wikipedia article?

The article says: "according to John Hockenberry of MSNBC the "Son of Sam" case was reopened in 1976." That "1976" is obvioulsy a mistake or typo, but what year does Hockenberry really claim the case was "reopened"? PatrickWB 22:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm going to attempt to sort these chronologicaly. Only some don't have any date attatched to them, and still others have very few details at all. I am also trying to trim some of the superfluous information about each entry (I.E. things that would fit better in an arcticle about the item in question). Any help would be appreciated.Lewiscode 20:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've cleaned it up and will now try to clean up the rest of the article (A weird way of going about things I know, but I wanted to add a reference and found it in need of cleaning up). Lewiscode 23:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Misinformation About The Letter?

According to Crime Library, the Son of Sam letter was addressed to Captain Joseph Borrelli, not to Chief of Detectives John Keenan. There are also discrepancies in the way some of the words are spelled, etc. I am changing this until the information concerning the previous version can be verified. --MosheA 20:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article is starting too get too many cultural references

Do we really want to list every song that ever mentioned Son of Sam or David Berkowitz? If yes, should we consider breaking the cultural reference section out into it's own article and then just list the most important ones in the Berkowitz article with a see also link to Cultural references to Son of Sam and/or David Berkowitz?? just askin' LiPollis 12:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent point you are making here. I agree that the section is a bit too bloated with entries at present. I would vote for choosing a selection of the most notable ones. Thanks for starting this discussion. Labyrinth13 14:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have split the cultural section off, leaving a brief statement and an advisement to go to the main articvle which is now called Cultural references to Son of Sam and/or David Berkowitz. Please feel free to add to the new article since size is no longer an issue.LiPollis 18:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Killed 15 or 16?? The NY times says he killed 6!

The first paragraph says that Berkowitz confessed to killing "15 or 16 people." But the press reports say that he killed six and wounded seven. The entry even says that he was convicted of six murders. Unless there's a source for the figure of 15 or 16, it should change. For one recent citation with the figured of six killed, seven wounded, see http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/nyregion/07sam.html

Family Religious Background

According to Crime Library both his adoptive and birth parents are of the Jewish faith. Graham Wellington 19:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please discuss before deleting that his adoptive parents are of the Jewish faith. Graham Wellington (talk) 18:04, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Berkowitz's birth and adoptive parents are Jewish. These are facts with a reliable source and will remain in the article.

Quotes from the Crime Library article on Berkowitz:

His real mother, Betty Broder, grew up in the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn. Her family was poor and she had to struggle to survive during the Depression. Her Jewish family opposed her marriage to Tony Falco, who was Italian and a gentile.

Her sadness at giving up her child was mitigated somewhat by the knowledge that a good Jewish couple was ready to adopt her son. With her newborn gone, Betty resumed her affair with Kleinman until he died of cancer in 1965.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/berkowitz/17.html

More solid facts, backed up by reliable sources, that Berkowitz and his family are all Jewish.

Quotes from a 2002 Larry King Live interview:

KING: Why did you leave Judaism?

BERKOWITZ: Well, Larry, I haven't left Judaism at all. I feel that I'm totally Jewish. I was born a Jew, I feel I'm going to leave this world a Jew.

BERKOWITZ: She was also Jewish, just like my natural father.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0210/26/lklw.00.html

The article states he lost interest in Christianity citing the 2002 interview. This is not accurate, I believe. There are journal entries through Oct 2007 that indicate otherwise here: http://www.ariseandshine.org/Journal.html Pokeyrmb 17:11, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Graham Wellington (talk) 03:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Graham Wellington (talk) 18:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Outdated

'as of 2004'?

How about something more recent? 02:34, 5 February 2008 (UTC)24.188.131.228 (talk)

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