Talk:Goethe's Faust

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References in Popular Culture

We have an article on a major and influential piece of german literature and tacked onto the end is a huge list of video game references and mentions in song lyrics? It seems totalyl inappropriate...if anything, the "references" section should be a list of other works of literature that have drawn from or reinterpreted Faust. Can it simply be removed? I don't edit wiki much so I'm reluctant to delete a whole section like that but: does anyone think it should be there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.135.223 (talk) 13:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Faust - a role model for intelligence-driven mankind

i agree that faust I and II should be described in one article. from my perspective as a german from leipzig, goethe reflects about his life starting in "sturm und drang" to a more moderate humanism view in faust II. i believe that there are not that many texts in this world talking about all big topics of life... and pointing on the destiny of every individual. - the relationship with god (even so i am atheist) - the relationship with your community, the development of society - the balance of doing good and bad... and the struggle with it - the nature of science and knowledge

i feel that there should be a part which gives people guidelines how to read it and background information about links between goethe and faust. and there could be a abstract about ethical standards communicated through faust.

thanks to everybody. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.138.47.140 (talk) 14:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

This Article Needs to be Juiced Up

Ok. I've just finished reading the work and attending a couple of lectures. Considering the totality and genius of this work, I think we need a much bigger and better organized article. I can provide some info and stuff from the lectures, but I don't see how this could not be Original Research? :\ Also, any way we can get an Expert Opinion?

Tradegy?

It's listed as a tradegy in wikipedia, the first part of the play is known as "The First Part of the Tragedy" and sometimes this work has been refered to as "The Divine Tragedy"... am I the only guy who realizes this book has a happy ending? Maybe we should point this out.

I agree completly. Definitely a happy ending. I think Goethe referred to the work as a tragedy, as to why, I'm not sure. :\ -DWRZ 19:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A tragedy by definition is a work in which a protagonist suffers a major reversal of fortune, and therefore does not have to have a "sad" ending. Gretchen experiences redemption, but the work is still a tragedy. 75.4.22.121 20:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clean up

Anyone volunteering to clean up the main article?

I put a fair amount of work into this article, mostly translating from the German version. Compare the Sept version when the cleanup tag was first applied. I'm no Goethe-scholar, and there's still room for improvement, but I don't think it's far below the norm for WP. However, I'll leave it to someone else to copyedit and decide whether removing the cleanup tag is warranted (I have re-tagged it as "expert needed" instead of under general cleanup, though). -- The Photon 06:07, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merging

The two articles should be merged at Goethe's Faust. It is artificial to write separate articles about them, and the Part 2 article is little more than a stub. Obviously, once the article evolves, "Part 1" and "Part 2" sub-articles may branch out again, but at present we need an article treating the work as a whole. dab (ᛏ) 13:36, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No complaints. I suggest first renaming this article to Goethe's Faust, then merging in the Part II article. -- The Photon 02:34, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did the merge! I hope you like what I did. Still lotsa work to be done. — goethean ॐ 16:38, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm busy writing a seminar paper on "Faust" right now, but once that is over and done with, I will devote some time to expanding and structuring this article, I promise! -- CP (I should create an account already...) Midnight, Monday, May 8th, 2006 (UTC)

Image

The image is signed "Leipzig, 1932". However, the text on the image reads "Goethe-Kriegsausgabe" (Goethe war edition). AFAIK war editions were printed only in the last years and shortly after the end of WW1 (1914-1918) and WW2 (1939-1945). Insel Verlag was established 1901. Anyone knows how to deal with that? 134.83.1.225 17:44, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, that's a problem. Germany started several wars in 19th century, but it was comparatively peeceful in 1932... I discussed it here http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Faust_I#Foto_des_Buchcovers and perhaps someone there knows an answer. --81.173.237.154 20:29, 16 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The date of 1932 must be an error. No Krieg – No Kriegsausgabe. The typeface is Fraktur so it couldn't have been printed after 1941 when Martin Bormann outlawed this typeface. Therefore the war was either the 1914–1918 war or the second war up until Bormann's decree. Most likely it was WWI. So the correct date was probably around the beginning of the war, say 1915, when Germany could afford luxuries like the printing of Goethe's plays.Lestrade 17:40, 2 September 2006 (UTC)Lestrade[reply]

Intro

Reading the first lines you get the impression that it is the first part of Faust which is several hundred pages long. This should be changed because the "original" Faust is relatively short. Obviously the author counted the two parts together. 84.178.125.209 22:50, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Spoiler warning?

Please set a spoiler warning!

Merging

I've added the merge template to this article.

There was a discussion a while back about merging the three articles, but this seems not to have been done.

It seems very unlikely that anyone would search for articles on the individual parts, the current split just causes unnecessary duplication in regard to part One, and the "Part Two" article, as has already been mentioned, is just a stub. The combined article would still not be as long as a number of articles about other major subjects. --rossb 18:44, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, they are seperate books. One was released in 1808 and the other in 1832. Faust Part Two is certainly a significant enough work to warrant an article. I might lean towards the information on the seperate volumes in this article being moved to their respective articles. — goethean ॐ 18:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. "Faust I" and "Faust II" are quite different -not surprisingly, given that the author matured by over two decades in between. --OliverH 17:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have rearranged the article and put some of the "Part 2" material at the separate article. — goethean ॐ 22:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry people, but NOBODY who ever dealt with these books seriously would merge them into one WP article; I'll remove that merging template. -- Imladros 02:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

English Translation

Does anyone know which translation is the best, or at least a superlative one? 69.217.100.46 01:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Test Questions?

I'm currently a college student that is reading this in our class and our test is coming soon. I'm wondering if I would be allowed to make a section in this article called "Test Questions" so that students such as myself, could come to Wikipedia for help with commonly asked test questions. The main purpose would be to make it easier for students to find information that they may not understand off the bat without the need to scurry the internet for answers only finding one or two answers from a select few web sites

The hopeful end result would be a section that could give all examples that are asked of a test question so the student would only need to pick the few that are needed for the test (reliability is based on the student's own knowledge and he/she would need to determine the legitimacy of the example given). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.44.214.2 (talk) 13:05, 28 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Title Translation

I'm not really sure, do the lines below refer to the titles of the English translation of the book, or are they supposed to be translations of the German title? Literally translating the title, one would have to say The Tragedy's First Part...

"It was published in two parts: Faust: der Tragödie erster Teil (translated as: Faust: The Tragedy Part One) and Faust: der Tragödie zweiter Teil (Faust: The Tragedy Part Two). "

XMCHx 23:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Closet drama?

The text says, that "the play is a closet drama". I doubt this, since the very first chapter of the play includes a "theater director" talking about it to the audience, before it actually starts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.227.39.191 (talk) 21:19, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He's not talking to the audience, it's a dialogue with an actor and playwright. The play is, nonetheless, a closet drama; he wrote it not intending to stage it. DionysosProteus 22:20, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Faust wins the bet??

Faust doesn't (as stated) win the bet, he simply is saved by god, despite loosing (if one reads the introduction carefully one can find, that god never agrees to the bet... He simply doesn't say very much to his own position). Faust is in fact saying the words 'verweile doch du bist so schön' in the end of Faust II, and thereby loosing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.240.176.203 (talk) 16:12, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust._Der_Trag%C3%B6die_zweiter_Teil#Grablegung Seine Seele wird, trotz Teufelspakt, von Gottes Engeln – die sein ewig strebendes Bemühen verzeihen lässt- gerettet und in Richtung Himmel geführt. Mephisto trollt sich enttäuscht —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.240.176.220 (talk) 17:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

@Icarus of old: I can agree with that explanation, but I think it leaves a couple of unclear points: - Which bet are we in fact talking about? There are two going on, one between Mephisto and Faust, and one between God and Mephisto (although the second one never is accepted by god). The bet between Mephisto and Faust consists barely of the question, if Mephisto can create a perfect moment for Faust. The second one of the question, if mephisto can get Faust to turn his back on God (in a manner of speaking). In my oppinion, Faust is no part of the second one, and can therby neither loose or win it. He does however loose the first one.

I wont start an editwar over that, so I will not change anything (English isn´t my language, so it might be in the interest of all of us), but I would be glad if you would consider this point, and maybe implement it. greetings Tis---strange

margaret

I made a super minor edit: someone had spelled margaret as margarete. It was spelled margaret earlier in the article, and it was inconsistent, so i fixed it. Derwos (talk) 23:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Eaten with gusto"

"The Hamburg performance: Directed by Peter Gorski, and eaten with gusto by Gustaf Gründgens ..." Seems to be a (rather comical) translation glitch. I haven't found its origin in the German article however.