Talk:History of the Jews in Germany

Germans of Jewish belief or Jewish race/people?

In Germany, we consider it as racism to speak of the "Jewish People" or the "Jewish race"! There have even been court verdicts to this topic. We in Germany consider ALL Germans as "GERMAN" -- no matter if they are Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Islamic, Atheist, Agnostic, Heathens or just perculiar people who worship their television set on a daily basis.

Please do not mistake religion for race, that is what racists do ... In Germany, the "Jews" (Zentralrat der Juden) take every chance to pronounce "we are Germans of Jewish belief"!

By the way: there is a Zionist and a anti-Zionist movement, both causes are legitimate and within democratic rules of free speech. Anti-Zionist does not mean anti-Jew -- this must be understood. Just because one is against the American occupation of Irak does not make one "anti-American", for example ...

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.140.89.73 (talk) 18:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

There is no debate whatsoever that being Jewish is a matter of ethnicity as well as religion, nor do reliable sources say anything otherwise. The only people saying it's not an ethnicity are the ones pushing whichever agenda of the day. Mad Jack 18:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, there is a debate -- at least within groups of scholars, also those of Jewish belief:

"(...) A dictionary will tell you that a "race" in this context is a variety of the human species characterized by various physical features such as skin color, hair color and texture, body shape and size, eye color, and so on. Anthropologists have divided human beings into several races, such as the Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, African pygmy, and American Indian. Race is a genetic classification; one is born into a race and is of a certain race or mixed race because of one's ancestors. One can covert into a religion, but one cannot change one's race.

Jews are therefore not a race. Jews are members of a religion, Judaism. There was at one time a Hebrew nation that was an ethnic group, but since ancient times the scattering of Jews throughout the world and intermarriage and conversions have made the Hebrew origin less a genetic and more a spiritual tie. There is also a culture tied to the religion and its laws regarding diet, the Sabbath, and various rituals, along with cultural practices picked up in various locations that are "Jewish" by coincidence. But there is no "Jewish race."

For centuries in Europe, Jews were persecuted on religious pretexts, often because they refused to convert to Christianity. The modern concept of Jews as a race came from the propaganda of the National Socialists of Germany, the Nazis. Their racist ideology classified not just the races but also ethnic groups and nationalities into levels of inferiority. The Nazis treated Jews as a race, basing their persecution not on religion but on origin. A Christian with a Jewish parent was considered a Jew, to be sent to the concentration camps. (...)"[1]

"Dear Ben, Thanks for writing.

It's relatively simple. Judaism is the faith or religion that Jews observe. Its ethnic character is multi-faceted, for Jews come from a variety of ethnic histories but the same religious heritage of beliefs, values, laws, customs, literature and history.

Hebrew is a language, and only in pre-Second Temple times, and perhaps only in pre-First Temple times did the term "Hebrew" refer to those who believed in a monotheistic God as do we today. Obviously Judaism has evolved considerably in the 3000 years since then, and ethnically reflects the cultures into which they were forced to migrate by multiple conquests of their own nation, referred to by Roman as Judea.

I hope that this helps. Check out the Encyclopedia Judaica in your library for further entries and facts, and if you have additional specific questions, don't hesitate to write.

Rabbi Dov" (Rabbi Barry Dov Lerner)[2] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.140.82.198 (talk) 19:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Again, there is no debate per se. The Wiki article on Jew treats it as an ethnic group, and it is. See this article on Jewish DNA and the like. Aside from that, it's inherently hypocritical to begin an article on German Jews as "Germans of Jewish belief", especially since Germany killing most of its Jews specifically because of their ethnicity is such a large part of German Jewish history. Furthermore, you have no reliable sources that define "German Jews" as "Germans of Jewish belief". In fact, the phrase "Germans of Jewish belief" has exactly 3 Google matches,[3] one of which does not work, the other of which is a blog, and the third is one that specifies "Germans of Jewish belief or heritage". Thus you cannot define the term "German Jews" with that definition on Wikipedia. Mad Jack 20:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The answer is that Jews are a religion and a civilization, but not a race or singular ethnic group (the latter two definitions marginalize proselytes). As Rabbi Rami Shapiro said: "There is only one response to Who is a Jew? that works: A Jew is one who takes Judaism seriously. One who takes Judaism seriously studies it, argues with it, and lives it."

The fact is that what you say is simply not factually accurate and indeed, all Wikipedia articles reflect that, from Jew to Jewish ethnic divisions. 04:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Concentration Camps

The sentence "some of which were sent to the newly formed concentration camps" about the first deportations of Jews implies to me that KZs were firstly formed from around 1939 for Jewish people - in fact, other groups that were persecuted by the Nazis, most importantly socialists and other political opponents, were imprisioned in concentration camps from as early as 1933; conditions were rapidly changing after 1939, but the above phrasing sounds inappropriate to me. Alternative suggestions, please? --131.111.8.97 10:49, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Who is Jewish?, post-1945

I could find no firm evidence that Bundesbank chairman Helmut Schlesinger is Jewish, even though his surname is often associated with Jews. Some websites claim that Hugo Egon Balder is Jewish, but they strike me as dubious. Balder is not known to be involved in the Jewish community (the way Rosenthal was, for example), and I found no incontrovertible evidence of Balder's Jewishness. Inge Meysel had a Jewish father but a Christian mother, which does not make her Jewish by the Jewish definition. Poldy Bloom 19:03, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Hugo Egon Balder has repeatedly confirmed on German television that his mother, Gerda Leyserson, was Jewish (she survived the Theresienstadt concentration camp). This has also been confirmed in dozens of German newspaper articles and reports. http://www.welt.de/print-welt/article329893/Mutters_Geheimnis.html Nellov5 04:53, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Stories of German Shielding 1942-45

Would be good to have an entry (or link) to a collection of stories on how some "Jews were shielded from the Nazis by the courageous acts of other Germans". This may be a start: http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/visasforlife/. http://hnn.us/comments/19503.html. Then again, perhaps this entry is not so much the place for such info. The entry on the Holocaust has a section about recuers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Rescuers

Copyvio?

Parts of this smack of plagiarism e.g.

"They enjoyed full civic liberty, being restricted only in regard to the dissemination of their faith, the keeping of Christian slaves, and the holding of office under the government. But they were otherwise free to follow any occupation open to their fellow citizens. They were engaged in agriculture, trade, and industry, and only gradually took up money-lending. These conditions at first continued in the subsequently established Germanic kingdoms under the Burgundians and Franks, for ecclesiasticism took root here but slowly, and the Jews lived as peaceably with their new German lords as they had done formerly with the Roman provincials. The Merovingian rulers, also, who succeeded to the Burgundian empire, were devoid of fanaticism, and gave scant support to the efforts of the Church to restrict the civic and social status of the Jews." SlimVirgin ^(talk) 08:48, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Not a copyvio, instead much of the early history is verbatim from the public domain Jewish Encyclopedia which, being written in 1906, is a bit fussy on the language side. It serves as a good base, but needs more copyediting. --Goodoldpolonius2 14:06, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

The Jewish Virtual Library and the articles 'number of jews by country' both go by the 105.000 jews in Germany today. Why would you use the 'probably' figure? It also looks like it's not the third biggest community in Europe, but the fifth biggest in case you consider Russia as European. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html#top European ranking would be: Russia - France - United Kingdom - Ukraine - Germany.

Number of jews in Germany

The Jewish Virtual Library and the articles 'number of jews by country' both go by the 105.000 jews in Germany today. Why would you use the 'probably' figure? It also looks like it's not the third biggest community in Europe, but the fifth biggest in case you consider Russia as European. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html#top European ranking would be: Russia - France - United Kingdom - Ukraine - Germany.

I added a source for the real number of Jews that live in Germany, and I reverted the text. | November 2, 2006

Someone wrote that there were more than 200,000 Jews officially registered in today's Germany. I don't know where he/she got that figure. The official figure is closer to 110,000. There may be more Jews in Germany, but they are not registered with the Jewish communities and do not count in the "official" totals. I made the correction in the article. Poldy Bloom 19:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

"German Jews" article

German Jews are one of the largest Jews communities and its worth establishing an article NEXT TO the history article!

Now that there is this article on contemporary Jews Culture, I wonder if the History article's shouldnt close with a common statement on culture or history but a population number.

The "History of Jews" articles discuss ancient and modern history, including present day. I've argued they should be renamed to "Jews in Germany" etc., but that's another issue. Jayjg ^(talk) 08:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

An article called "history" is in-adequate to describe a present day situation. The argument for articles to fall in line with the arrangement of articles isnt convincing either cause there are already a number of articles as "xy Jews" or "Jews in xy".

I'd support moving this to Jews in Germany, and the same with the other History of the Jews in xxx. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 08:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Well re-naming all the other: thats a big thing - cant tell. For contemporary Germany: German Jews is logical to me as it is the same for American Jews, African Jews etc. but before this whole issue gets forgotten I d rather agree with Jews in Germany.

Actually I d support that too: history is quite restrictive as it referes to everything from a sort of historical perspective. - as opposed to Jews in xy which is a lot more inclusive and open to life in general. Still I m not sure about identities.

Considering the very word, "Ashkenaz", which defines all German and Eastern European Jews, is the Hebrew term for "Germany" makes "German Jews" unique in this series. Surely the "Zentralrat for Juden in Deutschland" is calling it "Jews in Germany" but that was in 1950. Also a google search comes up with twice as many results for "German Jews" as for "Jews in Germany". The same is true if you search for sites updated (or created) in the past year. And, this number is the second highest number worldwide (only "American Jews" comes up with more results!).

One should also consider that almost all Jews newly immigrating to Germany, do so as recognized "German citizens" and not just any group of "foreigners". And: most of them are said intend to become part of a wider "German society" with a substantial Jewish history. How do "German Jews" / "Jews in Germany" feel about this? I d really like to see an article established like this - please comment.

Did some research and get clearer for the title "German Jews": key is the identification and heritage within a set environment. The very fact that (for centuries until 1933) "German Jews" were an INTEGRAL part of Germany, made them accelerate in so many areas. This has been unique in Jews history and after 1933 only "American Jews" took over this prominent heritage (directly inherited from emigrated "German Jews") German Jews in New York. I think a) Modern Germany wants to see Jewish life in Germany flourish. b) Building on their own (once wasted) potential and the "American example", a more integrated German Jewish community is more natural to an enlightened German society. d) The new Jewish community in Germany takes large benefit in re-establishing the German-Jewish identity. March 2006

Spelling mistake

On the see also section, shouldnt it say Jews and their lives rather than Jews and their lies? Dracion 17:55, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

scrubbing streets picture

Jews under the nazis: The picture shows only the half truth. It suggests that jewish people had to scub several streets for nothing and thats not right. Before "The Anschluss" austrain federal chancellor Kurt Schuschnigg ordered to paint the streets with paroles like 'Austria will never give up' and 'Sovereignty'. After the germans arrived, they took rich jewish inhabitants from the streets and forced them to remove this, as degradation. This was one of the reasons why the Wien residents has not organized resistance. However, they appreciated this. History should be hold clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.83.109.202 (talk • contribs)

Anon, unless you are trying to justify the policy of forcing "rich jewish inhabitants" to scrub the streets, I don't see your point. Exatly which streets and what from those streets they were forced to scrub, seems irrelevant to me. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 21:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, i dont need to justify anyone. It is even a historical fact. Of course there where humans exploited to divide an overthrown city by a successor. Its also not needed to say which street they used, but why that worked should made clear. Otherwise it is likewise propaganda. --217.83.109.202 21:42, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

You don't get it. They did not choose some random citizens for this degradation. What is important is they singled out the Jews. Exactly what those Jews were cleaning (the streets could be sterile clean) doesn't matter. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 21:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Noop, not every jew on street where singled out, just as I wrote. On this days Wieners where not ethnical divided but rather by function. They took other representatives of state as well. Its a modern tale that jews where the unique victims.--217.83.109.202 22:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

"not every jew" - what's your point? Is that supposed to somehow justify the Nazi perpetrators? How did those Jews deserve it?

If "representatives of state" really were there scrubbing the street next to the Jews (proof please), maybe they represented their past powers and their past decisions. Please explain what was the "function" of the Jews to deserve such treatment. Also, I don't understand how are those representatives related to the subject. Nazis also persecuted gays, mental patients, dissidents, etc. Should we mention all of this in the caption of a photo showing Viennese Jews scrubbing the street? ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 23:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, parts of Schuschniggs cabinet where forced to do this as well. The fact that no one protested was fear on one hand (armed force in the city). Otherwise it shows how far away from normal people some parts of community lived. The chancellor, his cabinet and the jews of the financial district where not really beloved ones this time. -- Why should we complicate the stuff? Can you agree zu underline the photo with "Nazis in Vienna, Austria 1938 mock mostly Jewish men forced to scrub away watchwords of resistance from overthrowed Schuschnig-Administration from streets ? I think that would made it clear enough.--141.76.45.35 07:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Unless you imply that Jews deserved such himiliation, all that is irrelevant. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 08:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The way you disrespect and blame me with your quotung marks, word orders etc. just unmask yourself

Jewish population in Germany

According to a several news reports and other sources, such as Wikipedia itself, the Jewish population presently is over 200.000. After 1990 about 170.000 Jews emigrated to Germany from Eastern Europe and 30-40.000 already lived in Germany. Sundar1 21:16, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

The U.S. Department of State had the following to say in its International Religious Freedom Report 2005: "Under a liberal immigration policy, more than 199,000 Jews and their dependents from the former Soviet Union (FSU) have come to the country since 1990, with smaller numbers arriving from other countries as well. Not all new arrivals join congregations, resulting in the discrepancy between population and congregation membership". Nellov5 21:57, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland does provide some population figures on its website, and it doesn't get much more official than that. The Zentralrat states, "Seit 1989 sind 190 000 Menschen als so genannte jüdische Kontingentflüchtlinge nach Deutschland gekommen. 80 000 von ihnen konnten in die jüdischen Gemeinden Deutschlands integriert werden." So, fewer than half of the new arrivals are part of the Jewish community, and many of the "so genannte jüdische Kontingentflüchtlinge" were not actually Jewish. So, we need to be wary of using the figure 190,000 plus 40,000 as the basis of tallying the population. According to the Zentralrat, "Die Jüdischen Gemeinden in Deutschland haben heute 104.000 Mitglieder." I have edited the article to distinguish between total Jewish population and affiliated population. Poldy Bloom 05:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

At the present time, the article reads, "Today over 200,000 [1] Jews live in Germany..." Footnote 1 references the Federal Statistical Office Germany <http://www.destatis.de/basis/e/bevoe/bevoetab5.htm>. But that website does *not* indicate a population over 200,000. That website reports only 108,000. So, the source does not confirm the information provided, and I will move the reference to a place where it seems more appropriate. Poldy Bloom 05:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, you didn't provide proof for your claim that "many of the so genannte jüdische Kontingentflüchtlinge were not actually Jewish" either. The Federal Statistical Office clearly states in their chart that the figures are for religious affiliation only. The article by the "Zentralrat der Juden" is indeed important, but it is in German and needs to be translated into English before a link should be posted. The discrepancy between total Jewish population and congregation membership is certainly worth mentioning, but not repeatedly within the same article. I have therefore reverted the changes at the beginning of the article. Nellov5 16:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added the link to the English-language version of the ZDJID article that was previously in German. Nellov5 18:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

I would be happy to explain why I wrote that many of the socalled contingency Jewish refugees were not actually Jewish. In the former Soviet Union, "Judaism" was considered a nationality and not a religion. As a result, it could be passed down patrilineally. Jews consider "Jewishness" to be passed down exclusively matrilineally. Therefore, many of the people considered Jewish by the communist Soviet authorities are/were not considered Jews by the Jewish community itself. A report from the European Jewish Press service states, "Jewish law . . . prescribes that a Jew is a person born of a Jewish mother. German immigration policy, however, has also let the offspring of Jewish fathers into Germany as contingency-refugees." That is why I wrote what I did. I realize that many individuals and groups have regarded "Jewishness" as handed down from either side of the family, but that is not how traditionally observant Jews historically have defined it. (In recent years some Reform Jewish groups have adopted the partilineal rule, as well, but that remains a minority view within the Jewish world.) Incidentally, Israel's Law of Return also allows for right of residence and citizenship for the "non-Jewish" spouses and children of halahkic Jews. This allows them to enter Israel under the same circumstances as Jews, but it does not count them as "Jewish." Poldy Bloom 21:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking more about the issue of repeating the discrepancy between the number of individuals who may be Jewish and the official number of Jews who are registered with the community (which is no indication of actual religiosity in Germany). I think that having the information as it is now is a good idea. In the introduction, it makes a general statement ("slightly more than half"). Many people will not read much of this rather long article, so it is good to mention the discrepancy up front. On the other hand, in the detailed sub-section on post-1990 German Jewry, it is interesting and worthwhile to have more precise figures, as well as the source. Poldy Bloom 20:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I find the repeated information about the discrepancy redundant and don't even think it's relevant enough, particularly in the introduction to this article. I can't find anyone making a distinction between the affiliated and non-affiliated Jewish population on any other Wikipedia page dealing with the Jewish history of their country. The following is from the introduction of "The History of Jews in France" (the article on British Jews has a similar statement in its introduction): "French Jews are mostly Sephardic and span a range of religious affiliations, from the ultra-Orthodox Haredi communities to the large segment of Jews who are entirely secular." We are not told how many of these belong to a synagogue and how many are secular. There are other pages on Wikipedia that define what Judaism and who a Jew is - this is not the right place to do that. The immigration policy adopted by the German government was in accordance with the principles of American Reform Judaism which accepts a child of one Jewish parent (mother or father) as a Jew (see the ZDJID's homepage for more information about the immigration rules for immigrants from the former USSR). And since you only seem to consider those belonging to an orthodox or conservative community as officially "affiliated", you completely ignore the 3000 members of liberal or reformed communities (represented by the Union of Progressive Jews in Germany) that bring the total of "affiliated" Jews up to 107,000 - which is much closer to the official figure of 108,000 provided by the Federal Bureau of Statistics. I have therefore removed the redundant information from the introduction, as well as updated the figure of registered members, plus added one more link to the "post-reunification" section. Nellov5 00:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

If you add 3000 to 4000 progressive Jews to the 104,000 who belong to traditional Jewish communities, you still don’t get over 200,000. In a spirit of compromise, I would suggest that we use the English translation of the German phrase “jüdischer Herkunft”. Perhaps that most accurately describes the situation of the contingency refugees. Poldy Bloom 17:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The corrected figure of 108,000 reflects only the number of those with a religious affiliation, and of course NOT the total Jewish population. The figure of 190,000 Jewish quota refugees emigrating to Germany has been confirmed in dozens of articles/reports by important organizations, from the Central Council of Jews in Germany to the Deutsche Welle http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1438392,00.html to the embassy websites of the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs http://www.germany.info/relaunch/info/publications/infocus/JewishLife/generalfigures.htm (giving a figure of 170,000 in 2003) to the U.S. Department of State (see quote above from their report). Add to that the 30,000 Jews already living in Germany at the time of German reunification and you get at least 200,000. How much more confirmation do you need? However, I agree with your suggestion of using the expression "Jews or persons of Jewish descent". So let's leave it at that. I corrected the sentence about Germany having Europe's third-largest Jewish population to "Western Europe's third-largest J. population" - which is what has been stated in the country article about Germany as well. Nellov5 02:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Jews in WWI

It should be mentioned that many Jews fought for Germany in World War I. This actually improved their reputation among the people. Even the Nazis - initially - made exceptions for Jewish front fighters, which certainly says nothing about the regime itself, but shows that the latter feared to raise indignation.

"improved their reputation among the people"--what's that supposed to mean? (I assume you mean "Gentiles", not "people.") Besides, it's not true: the Reichsverband juedischer Frontsoldaten (RJF), a Jewish veterans' organization, was founded precisely to combat the anti-semitic treason libels that circulated after Germany lost the war. These libels were collectively known as the "Dolchstoss-Legende"--the stab-in-the-back legend.

As for the Nazis' fear of raising indignation, that's a truly complex topic. RogerLustig (talk) 04:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Disapointing article

The prosecution of jews are certainly a big bart of German history. However, this segment appear to be only about that, and very litle if anything about the dynamics of the jewish people, how they evolved during the centuries and their integrated part in the greater society. Nothing about the rich jewish culture and traditions. No doubt the history of jews in Germany are linked to holocaust and other progroms, but it appears to me holocaust overshadows other parts in the historical context. Basically, this article give no information about the peculiarities that kinda defines jews origin from that region and what the difference are from say jews who lived France. Thx, i hope i didnt offend anyone, but its hard for me to believe that an article about a 1000 year old culture, should be 90 % about the prosecutions. Maybe 90 % for the last century is ok, but not for its whole history. My guess is that in the early middle ages, black death, war, hunger and diseases were just as big part of the negatives in german jewish history as progroms was.

history buff

Same city

In the following sentence, "Mayence" is used without indication that this is the same city as previously mentioned, namely "Mainz." It is simply the French name rather than the German one. This should be made clear. "At that time R. Gershom ben Judah was teaching at Metz and Mayence, gathering about him pupils from far and near."

Apace361 02:51, 11 July 2007 (UTC)Apace361

1950's German Law Regarding Citizenship for Jews Fleeing Nazism

Someone posted a link to an article about a German law dating from the 1950`s allowing the children and grandchildren of German Jews fleeing Nazism to apply for German citizenship. But the conclusion that the wave of Jewish immigrants coming to Germany in the last 2 decades is due to that law is erroneous. As has already been stated in the “Jewish population” section, over 190,000 Jewish immigrants have come to Germany from countries of the former Soviet Union. But these were allowed into the country under a refugee law, which has nothing to do with the 1950’s legislation (check the detailed information on the Central Council of Jews’ homepage, see above links). Moreover, the German government is in no position to grant German citizenship to those who are only interested in gaining access to the labor markets of other European countries, as is obviously the case with the applicant interviewed in the posted article. This type of “economic immigration” is regulated by EU law, not by German law. Further, someone with a German passport but not living in Germany can hardly be called an immigrant to Germany,let alone a member of Germany’s Jewish community.

Nellov5 20:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Possible Copyright Infringement?

This has been discussed before, see the paragraph on "Copyvio" above. Most of the early history of this article (up until the 19th century) has been taken from the PUBLIC DOMAIN "Jewish Encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Encyclopedia. It has been stated in the "Reference" section of this article that "this article incorporates text from the 1901–1906 Jewish Encyclopedia, a publication now in the public domain." A quick comparison to the online-version of the "Jewish Encyclopedia" will confirm this. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=160&letter=G&search=germany

The German website - that was used to put the "Copyright infringement" tag on this article - CLEARLY states at the end of the article that their text is an "excerpt taken and edited from the "Jewish Encyclopedia" as well!!! http://www.talmud.de/cms/History_of_judaism_in_ger.241.0.html

Most of the other "History of the Jews in a European Country" articles on Wikipedia also use the "Jewish Encyclopedia" as a source. If anything, the above German website used the text that has been edited here first, and not the other way around!

Nellov5 (talk) 02:26, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Removed tag. Public domain means it's okay for Wikipedia to use. Read the copyrighted works policy again, please. Mike H. Fierce! 04:42, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Jewish descent

There are actually millions of Germans who are of Jewish descent. The Swiss "Genetic" company iGenea says, that tests show, that 10% of all Germans got Jewish roots:

http://www.igenea.com/docs/bams.htm