Talk:Tanoli

random

I ran across this page using the "random page" link. I agree that the text is copyright infringement. The contextual stub that I added does not infringe, however, and would make a fine stub for this article.

- Nate

Article re write

I have re written the article from it's previous form but have included the theory of where they theorise they are possibly from. I have evidence from many sources to suggest that they are descendants of the Janjua. 'Tehreek e Janjua' (sahiwal Press) by Raja Mohd. Anwar Khan and 'Chronicles of Earley Janjuas' Dr Hussain Khan are both sources for the given info.

I have for obvious reasons removed the 'aboriginal' tribe references, sounded too much like a colonial write up.--Raja 19:29, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Tidy up

Have wikified and done a tidy up as best as I can after consulting some references (and lots of research) also added and further elaborated the entire article. Please feel free to add further info.

Vandalism 202.83.173.117

You are vandalising a page you know next to nothing about. I have provided fully referenced sources and yet you have provided not one. If you continue to vandalise this page I will recommend your banning from wiki. You arent even prepared to talk about this and your uncivil behaviouir towards other pages is also clear. Cease immediately. I am reverting this page back to it's original fully sourced version.--Raja 17:05, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Historical evidence for Pakhtun origin of Tanawalis now also know as Tanolis

I have given many sources for the Pakhtun origin theory. Also I have written a critical analysis of the various issues concerning the language, culture, history and relationships with fellow Pakhtun tribes of Tanawalis e.g. Jaduns, Dilazaks, Swatis etc. who all live adjacent to the Tanoli areas and have intermarried and share valleys, lands and language. Tanawal, Pakhli and Mansehra, as well as Abbottabad's Orush valley, are all territories that are similar in many ways and are central to the Hazara identity and culture. The references given by the Janjua 'theorist' are definately fradaulent as this writer has consulted the original material and not found any references to Janjuas or raja Tanoli anywhere. The books by the two Janjua writers, who do not belong to the great tanawali race but are northern Punjabis whose sources are dubious to say the least and who are trying to concoct a 'history' that has no historical foundation. Furthermore, the history of a people is determinded by it's own oral and written accounts. The ruling family of Tanawal do not list Raja Tanoli in their geneological table nor does he figure in their family accounts - are they wrong, deluded or should we accept their version of their own history which is consistent with those written by non-Tanawalis? Abbasid accounts , for a very small minority of Tanolis, is more plausible than a Janjua 'history' for all Tanawalis. 17:06, 25 October 2006 (Pakhtun Tanoli)

Reply to Pakhtun Tanoli

Hello and thank you for your input here. I would stress that;

a) The sources that I quoted, I actually have copies of them to back up proof,so I am surprised that you question them IF indeed you have their copies as you state. I can even post a picture here of the texts in question for the ones you have questioned if you would like? I dont believe you anticipated this offer, but I more so dont believe you have consulted the texts yourself as YOU suggest.

b) The Janjua have no need to use another's history seeing as their own history is fully referenced and sourced as was this article until you starting inputting nonsensical 'point of view info' without any referenced citations. But regarding your delusion of Tanolis baring no attachment at all to Janjuas, it is claimed elsewhere (not by me or any other Janjua solely) of this connection and it's synonimous relevance to each other yet again [1] were this not the case then why are people mentioning it?! I dont agree all Tanolis are Janjua, but there are true Raja Tanoli descendants (real Tanoli Janjuas) who have genelogical tables showing this and have been mentioned by even Mughal Jehangir, so where you claim that it doesn't show on the Nawab's genelogical table I cannot understand BECAUSE had he actually had a genelogical table in the first place, then surely the Barlas Mughal or Abbasi theories would be put to rest would it not!

c) You have been 'revert warring' an article without any discussion at all. I have incorporated your Pashtun origin theory into the article and you completely deleted the Janjua theory? Thats rather uncivil and immature considering there isn't any mention of a 'Tanoli nation' in Hazara pre colonial era texts.

d) Before accusing me of any nonsense please see this link [2] which is undoubtedly a mention of a Tanoli Punjabi Musalmaan, so before badmouthing Punjabis, read your OWN history properly. And in case you call that a one off, here is Subedar Kalandhar Khan of the 91st in his full Tanoli glory [3]

If you want a proper discussion, with respect, according to wiki ethics I will engage with you (though I am very busy, I will Inshallah accomodate you) but if you want to be abusive (which till date I have NOT been towards you) then I will disengage and report you.

The text Chronicles of Early Janjuas by Dr Hussain Khan is written BY A TANOLI, so how can you ignore it? He was a professor of history at Peshawar University no less, so chances of a deluded Punjabi cannot be accepted (I can print his background from his book on here with an actual picture too if you want proof?). Keep things in perspective. I dont believe every person who calls themself a Tanoli is a genuine Tanoli by descent, they are all geographically named instead of by blood I believe, especially given the Swati example you give which is interesting. But to totally deny EVERY contrary evidence without debate indicates a Point of View, which isn't encyclopedic. (This is an encyclopedia, hence neutrality must be maintained. This is NOT a eulogy page).

Secondly, I have not come across a SINGLE source by any historian which records Tanolis as Pashtun, absolutely none. I would appreciate a Yousafzai text which would accept them as their brethren (Again THERE IS NONE) I would gladly accept a local account for this by neighbouring Yousafzais etc but again I am dissappointed here too. 'Al Afghaniya Tanoli' is a strange case. Pashtuns are not the be all and end all of all things Afghan. Syed's are absolutely not Pashtun, yet they are Afghans by localised centuries of inhabitance and cultural practice. So Tanolis culturally Afghan background is not disputed. But to change them ethnically, give them another faith i.e. Pakhtunwali, is a bit far fetched and extreme to say the least.

Now be civil and engage properly.--Raja 10:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Tanoli Sub Tribes

aoa to all

i am a tanoli and very interested in the history of my tribe. i tried to mail to the person who offers to give the scanned pages of "tareekh-e-tanolian" but my mail bounced back due to invalid email address or some reason i dont know. I request to tanolis or whoever has got any literature about our tribe, please send me the data or identify me the book shops from where i can buy these books. my email address is "farhanullahk@gmail.com"

your cooperation in this regard would be highly appreciated. regards farhan

1- Sadial Tanoli,

Sadial Tanoli tribe is living in the areas of 1-Bammochi Khurd and Bammochi Kalan. The most famous names are as under

---

Shamraiz Khan Tanoli DAE in electrical Engineering from Pakistan, BE In Electrical Engineering from Washington international university USA, MBA From college of commerce USA, and Presently working in KSA from 25 December 1995.Now in a Telecom company (BATCO Telecom Professional company)as Project Manager i:e International well recognize company in Telecommunication field, Web site is WWW. Batcogroup.com. He serve also in Pakistan as Electrical Instructor in Technical training centre Mansehara, Haripur(Khalabut Town Ship) Bajour Agency Mangora (Swat).Under directorate of Manpower and Training NWFP Pakistan, 5 years.(from 1990 to 1995).

Mohammad Rafiq Tanoli:- Insta Phone Manager Graduated from Karachi university and diploma in computer Engineering from Karachi. MBA from college of commerce USA. and working since 1995 in Insta telecom Mobile company as Manager. He serve his services in Islamabad, Abbottabad, Topi Swabi and Peshawar area for the development of Mobile services, and always achieve his Goal.

Mazhar Iqbal Tanoli CA: Executive Manager Working in life insurance company in karachi. he develop a lot of programs for his organization,

Sohail Ajab Tanoli:- Lecturer in Karachi University. Presently Studying for PHD Mathematics in Germany.

Zubair Ahmed Khan Tanoli:- Mechanical Engineer In Pakistan Petroleum company in Pakistan. During his study he did a lot of project and wrote a book in a Group of 4 Engineers. which is included in the course of Engineering university Karachi.

Naheem A Kareem Tanoli:- CA 2nd officer in Muslim commercial Bank Karachi. He achieve his goal in a very short period and working in karachi Pakistan from 2004. to up date.

Amjad Pervez Tanoli:- Associate Engineer in Electrical technology. working in a telecom company in Islamabad.

Thora, Sherwan, Pahteel ,Shaheed Abad, Chummatti, Kangran.Lassan Nawab saheb,Beer Pohar,Bandi Mutrach, Khalora Takia Hall, Bachha, Pind, Gandian, Kangran, Kangrora. Rutta barilla, Kothiala Sandu Galli, and other area of the tanowal. 2- Karlal, 3- Jadhal, 4- Kargowal, 5- Sunhall.

212.116.220.23 10:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)Engineer Shamraiz Khan Tanoli

MBA in Telecom From USA.

Presently working in Saudi Arabia in Telecom company as a Project Manager.

E-mail:- shamraiz@batcogroup.com

January cleanup

This article is in a complete mess at the moment and needs to be wikified asap. The current debate of origin is taking place away from this page and should be discussed here.

Although citations have been requested for info (personal opinions and points of view are not allowed on wikipedia, all assertions MUST be cited and sourced).

The citations have been requested since autumn '06 and still none have been provided. I can only conclude that none are available, hence not applicable for this article.

Unless citations are provided, the article will be dealt with as per wiki policy and previous 'cited version will be used. Please feel free to debate and contribute anything here so that the matter can be discussed and article progressed.--Raja 14:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

This article does not need any alterations. This Supersingha needs to get back to his own pages to do with his own race and ethic group.

Strange, because here is a Punjabi Tanoli Punjabi Tanoli Army Subedar so your implied racism must now take this into account. Infact in Sir Ian Scott's book, "A British Tale of Indian and Foreign Service: The Memoirs of Sir Ian Scott", that, "Amb is mainly occupied by Tanaolis, who, like the somewhat mixed population of Phulera, are not Pathans, and do not speak Pushtu. The small trans Indus state of Amb state is, however, entirely Pathan." (Radcliffe, 1999, p66, p67). So which ethnic are we talking about here?!

It is apparent that he is interfering with issues he knows next to nothing aboput. If Wikipedia does not bar him from meddling then there are other ways to deal with this problem.

Such as?

There is enough evidence to justify the assertions put fprward in the references section.

Great! Please provide them instead of "alleging to bring it forward". Thats IF you have it.....

I have gone around researching on the Wiki site on various issuesthis so-called Raja has put his nose into and it seems he is not satisfied with anything that contradicts his obsession with trying to prove something that is not historically true. He is not even willing to accept Tanawalis own historians nor the Tanawal ruling family who reject they are janjuas and also that they ever had an ancestor from that line as so adequately written by Pashtun Tanoli.

Funny because the same royal family dont know their origins. Infact they dont know if they are Aryan, Indic, Mongolian or Pashtun at all. They have never confirmed it because they simply dont know. But your use of language is very poor.

Mr Supersingha says they are wrong and is using the tricks of the trade of Wikipedia editing to put conditions on this article that is wholly correct. Well Mr Supersingha I will provide thse citiations and if I do that then will you put up and shut once and for all? You will need to aoplogise to the whole Tanoli nation and Pashtun Tanoli to. Tahirkheli 16:38 7 January 2007

Again, poor language. But either way, instead of posting up threats to provide the info, why dont you save yourself the time and effort and actually do it instead of threatening to do it. But before you go, here is another connection with Janjuas ;-) [4]--Raja 15:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I am a tanoli and proud to be one. I know that my ancesters were tanolis and that is enough for me to know and make me proud of my race.Tanolis are a brave and distinct people of the tanawal mountains and they spread from Mardan to Baluchistan.There is a pashtun tribe in and around Queeta, who proudly say they are Tanolis and so do my brothers in Mardan, who are in a majority there, in around four villages. Tanolis are a race with a proud and prosperous history; so it is common for people to relate themselves to us, we should not see this as a negative aspect but we should not start believing these allegations.And secondly mr.janjua, what do you mean by stating that the royal family doesnt know of its origins, i thought you were a sensible person before you typed that, they are also tanolis and all the tanolis are from the same bloodline,if you have any doubts clear them because im from that family and i confirm it,A TANOLI WAS A TANOLI, IS A TANOLI AND WILL REMAIN AS A TANOLI !!!

Firstly, you misread what I wrote. When I wrote the main Nawab family doesn't know it's origins, I meant in terms of whether they were Barlas Mughal or Pathan Yousafzai. That was actually documented in a national article. They ofcourse know they are Tanoli. I have absolute respect for the brave Tanolis, but the derogatory remarks made by the members above really do put a shame to the name Im saddened to say. The info presented in the article referred to a mentioned link to Janjuas, but also highlighted other links too. This is an encyclopedic site and therefore all sides of the story must be presented in an open and fair way.--Raja 23:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Barlas

We are Mughals full stop. Why are you mr Paktoon trying to make us Pashtuns? We are pure Mughals and have always stated this. Our 1st family confirms this, the British openly record other Pathans who hate us that we are not one of them, then why do you lie and try to make us part of people that we are not? They dont even considr us Pashtun? You must stop your illegal and dumb lies otherwise our people will one day rise again and deal with you too. We are not punjabis, afghans or Pashtuns, we are Barlas Mughals of Turkic origin SO STOP LYING PAKHTUN TANOLI. If you dare, bring your lies back to Amb and we will deal with you PROPLY!!!

-Jahangir Khan Tanoli

Don't be stupid. This is a public forum where people are allowed to express their oipinion and if evidenced then can cite their finding. Your threatening behaviour is counterproductive. I have not read anywhere that Tanawalis are actually Barlas Mughals - Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qaidiani also claimed to be Barlas , are you proud to be that. Secondly, Pakhtun Tanali is not the only one maintaining the PAkhtun origin for Tanolis - there are countless Tanolis, other Afghans, including Jadun historians also are keeping this theory in the forefront of their debates in oral and written histories. I am willing to meet you anywhere to debate this even if PAkhtun Tanoli isn't. It is well documented that the lower classes of people in the Tanawal areas, who are obviously not Pashtuns, claim to be Janjuas, Awans, Barlas to hide their lowly status.

If you wish to engage in a proper debate then do so otherwise prepare for your bluff to be called.

No, YOU STOP BEING STUPID. Stop trying to lie and changing history.The proof is everywhere, even in the bloody gazetter you love quoting.We are blatantly mugals.There aint 1 book that says we are anything else. Ihave the gazetter, so you better watch out with your lies and fantasies. You Paktoons or cartoons whatever you are,are blatantly not pure blooded Tanwalis, unless you're an aulad of a haram pathan union, thats why you keep barking on about it. Were Mugals, hardcore world conquering warriors, not chars making pathans you dimwit. Our Nawabs told the british that they were from Mughal Amir Khan Barlas from the 15th century in the NWFP Gaz. so what you lying for? Insecure are you? I dont care who Qadiani was, that harami even claimed to be a Saiyad (In auzobillah) from his mums side, does that make them bad too? Dont be stupid cartoon partoons.

Good! You pataan wannabees are pitiful. Shame on you for lying and trying to be something else, you know that we aren't paktun, so you come on here and lie and try to say we are? Shame on you paktuns! We are Mughal Khans, not pataans, patoons or whatevr you want to call yourselfs. Your bluffs are wet talk, bring it on, we Mugal Barlaszai Tanwalis are ready for you. Before calling us lowly born, remember, we are the same Hindwals that uprooted you weak Palowals and inferior khels. Nawabzada is also a Mugal according to his own admissions and his ancestors admissions (proof? read the gaztr you thicko) next time you wanna make up lies, remember, we will defend our blood against your lies. Jahangir is right, we have risen up against you, so just curl up and die you satanic morons.

I think it is unwise to use this kind of language. If you are a Tanoli then you should respect other Tanolis version of their identity. I see you do not identify yourself which may mean that you may be a trouble maker who is deliberately trying to foment conflict here. I would advise you to go to Pashtun Talk discussion where this issue has been discussed in detail. You could also consult the various references provided in the Tanoli article at the bottom of the page. There are plenty of texts written by Tanolis themselves to lend weight to the Pashtun heritage side of the debate. Just to make a point that the Turks who were in control of the AGror Valley and also Pakhli Sarkar were ousted by Swati Pashtuns and have disappeared from the history of Hazara. So please refrain from making comments that deter a debate. The argument has settled and Tanolis are considered part of the Pashtun nation. If you can bring forth credible evidence then do so otherwise either shut up or put up. Taj Mohammed Tanoli- 17:15 14 June 2007

Who settled this argument? You change the page to your bullshit made up lies? Name me one english book, just one you cartoon partoon that says we are Pashtuns. I challenge you before the entire world. All gazetters and books say we are Mughals or mixed. None at all say we are genuine pashtuns you liar. There isnt any book written by Tanolis that prove it. If they did, it's a small handwritten book by a trouble maker. I reading this page and you are a disgrace to our people. How dare you tell me to shut up, you shut up you haram pashtun ka bacha! YOu diss my family name, I will keep dissing you. Go away to your lies world!

You are using other names I see! Keep hiding harami partoon! besharam haram zada! No matter what names you make partoon, you will be caught!

Mumtaz

Im not going to get drawn in to the above arguments (goodluck!). But I did have a couple of questions for you, which I hope, in the vein of respect for the truth, we can atleast make a gesture to talk in a professional manner about info we do know?

Right, before I begin, I fully understand Tanwal has many tribes etc but my interest is also in tribes in general.

I wanted to ask, if you can help;

• 1. I have heard there are some Tanoli branches in Balochistan, do you have any info as to their connection with the main two septs, Hindwal and Palowal.

• 2. I've read somewhere that there are some Tanoli settlers in Kashmir, do you have any knowledge of them?

• 3. The Nalwa campaign against the Tareen chiefs confederacy, was quite a big chapter in the life of Hazara, and I was thinking of writing a neutral article as I find much info from the Sikh historians to be quite biased against the Tareen confederacy. Do you have much info on this? If not, do you have any sources in Pakistan NWFp that can help with this?

• 4. Can you dig up any info on the Tanoli tribes alliance witht the Abdali campaign of India? This is an abundantly large portion of history which isn't well covered or info collated on. It would help to have this covered. You can take this up, or if you, I can help you write this article, following wiki rules, literary language, formatting etc.

Despite our debates and rants, I reckon the article here has massively suffered. Much of the tribes accomplishments (whatever their origin, ethnic makeup, I can't care anymore) are being ignored and relegated to 2nd place.

It's up to you if you wanna help, I am offering you a chance to improve this article as well as helping me with it. Likewise, any info I can provide you (I have a large enough library on Northern Indo and certain aspects of Afghan history) I'll be happy to help out.

Let's start again. Rozeh are around the corner and I don't want this going on through Ramadan too....--Raja 11:08, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

aoa to all

i am a tanoli and very interested in the history of my tribe. i tried to mail to the person who offers to give the scanned pages of "tareekh-e-tanolian" but my mail bounced back due to invalid email address or some reason i dont know. I request to tanolis or whoever has got any literature about our tribe, please send me the data or identify me the book shops from where i can buy these books. my email address is "farhanullahk@gmail.com"

your cooperation in this regard would be highly appreciated. regards farhan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.81.208.171 (talk) 21:34, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Read the book "TAREEKH-E-TANOLIAN". its been written in 1939. I will scan all the pages of that book. If anyone interested, Please email me, I will also send you those pages. [sales@ugowireless.biz] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.29.53.158 (talk) 12:51, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Brothar we are mughals and we are warriors. Do not believe these confised people who say we are pashtoon. We are not. --Dil tarasha (talk) 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

New liar

Brothers and meani aulad. Why you make us pashtun when we are proud mughals? we have the books and proof to state this, so why lie? are you an insecure pashtun cartoon wannabe? Daffa ho!

I dont know about the dirtiest style of language. sir when you are talking about castes, do you think that what everybody said about his cast or nation inluding you is quranic words. The authenticity of Hadith can be challenged, do you understand what I mean? why should I tell a lie? what can I get? furthermore, what I stated, I did nothing on my own.In reserch you must be open hearted,you would have heard sometimes a fool can teach wisdom to wise.I told that I read a statement in the book of the Atchison college about most respectable student of that time Sultan Muhammad Khan of BERE that we TANOLIES are descendent of PATRIARCH YOUSAFpbuh sir you can get this book from my friend BASHARAT KHAN presently working in STATE LIFE OFFICE FAROOQA BAD PLAZA MANSEHRA ROAD ABBOTTABAD SIR THIS BOOK IS ALMOST 126 YEARS OLD I have produced all this just to prove that I m not LIAR . Akhtar Saeed akhtarsaeed60@hotmail.com

Tanoli page being deleted

Hey come on guys, stop fighting over this mughal/pashtun thing, if you guys are tanolis,you should be proud of your great history and should be proud to be tanolis rather than associating yourselves with other tribes. Our history is great, thats why many tribes have associated themselves with us. But this fight here will get you no where, by the way the Tanoli page here on wikipedia is being considered for deletion, if you guys dont stop vandalising this page it will be deleted soon. So please only add notable and relevant material to the page and try to make this page presentable. Cheers!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikitanoli (talk • contribs) 02:52, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Captain James Abbott This book also mentions the fact that the original language of the Tanolis was Pashto but some have forgotten it and now speak Hindko in areas where the majority speaks this language. spoke Pashto. Pashto also known as Pakhto, Pushto, Pukhto Pashtoe, Pashtu, Pushtu or Pushtoo) is an Iranian language spoken by Pashtuns living in Afghanistan and western Pakistan. ... It has been suggested that Hindku be merged into this article or section. ...

I dont know about the dirtiest style of language. sir when you are talking about castes, do you think that what everybody said about his cast or nation inluding you is quranic words. The authenticity of Hadith can be challenged, do you understand what I mean?

Akhtar Saeed akhtarsaeed60@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.155.36 (talk) 14:24, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

semi-protect the page already

Today 27 March the page has been vandalized and reverted 9 times, 4 times by 80.37.184.60 [5] [6] [7] [8], once by 99.233.155.36 [9] and then 4 times by 80.37.184.60 [10] [11] [12] [13] until he was blocked for a week. It appears to be the very same idiot vandal that vandalized the page so many times that caused it to be nominated for deletion. I didn't follow the history, but his accounts were blocked and now he's resorting to using IPs --Enric Naval (talk) 21:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

P.D.:In 25 March it was vandalized 3 times by apparently the same person, also from an IP [14] [15] [16]. That same IP vandalized the deletion nomination of tanoli. It's obvious it's the same vandal again and again, maybe two different vandals at most --Enric Naval (talk) 21:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

After i reported it at WP:RPP, The page was protected for a period of one week by User:Gb. The main vandal has also been blocked for one week by User:Hersfold. Maybe we can have a week now to focus on other parts of wikipedia! TheProf - T / C 23:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

NO doubt there are quite a few vandals out there who are trying to mess around with this page and most add unnecessary material for example a few weeks ago a person had added the name of some shop keeper to the list titled famous Tanolis of today, which is in no way notable enough to be put on Wikipedia. I do consider myself an expert on this page as I have ample knowledge of the history and present status of the Tanoli tribe. I am keeping watch on this page and will certainly edit any irrelevant material and also correct the grammar where a user has added relevant material in an unimpressive manner.Wikitanoli (talk) 21:22, 28 March 2008 (UTC)