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User:Moonriddengirl/cclean

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Moonriddengirl (talk | contribs) at 15:34, 4 June 2008 (→‎Notes: I mean notes. :)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Can I tease out consensus here? I'm not sure. It's very tangled. Let's give it a look.

Delete

  • Not notable for standalone; perhaps worthy mention in Satmar or Neturei Karta. Avi
  • Comment merely, but implying delete: nothing currently worth keeping. DGG (timestamp: 01:41, 29 May 2008)
  • Comment merely, but tending delete: originally for keep, as notable. Struck out and later suggested may be failing WP:V. Phlegm Rooster
  • Delete. Hits are to term in general, not this group. No prejudice against recreate with notable sources. gren
  • Delete. Only notable for having a website. Shuki
  • Delete and then recreate Jews Against Zionism (disambiguation) page that was deleted in this AfD to clear up the continuous confusion over the three different groups Malik mentioned that get lumped under this title. This one of the three so titled groups is non-n. MPerel
  • Delete, nn. Culturalrevival
  • Delete, recreation. Y

6 clear for delete with two suggesting deletion for (a) inadequate content and (b) WP:V. Deletion arguments assert non-notability, with repeated reference to the confusion caused by multiple groups with the same name. A suggestion is made that Jews Against Zionism (disambiguation) should be recreated to help avoid this kind of confusion in the future. G4 argument has some merit, but article as currently stands seems sufficiently to differ from earlier incarnation that alterations might conceivably be considered to address concerns.

Keep

  • Lots of g-news hits. 3rd party sourcing suggests notable. JeremyMcCracken
  • Originally for deletion as non-notable, unconstructive promotion of fringe group, BUT changed mind as research suggests building notoriety. Located sourcing. Clean up required. Shoesss
  • Comment that notability complicated by different gruops using the name. [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]]

Keep: Merge and/or Redirect


6 clear for uncomplicated keep, with one comment that suggests keep may be appropriate, as probably notable. One keep suggests move. Among the keeps, JeremyMcCracken does not address multiplicity of names. One keep, which proposes move, does not meet WP:V. Two keeps fail to address notability concerns; one of these opposes redirect. One keep based on OR. 4 additional keeps suggest merge or redirect, with some disagreement as to the appropriate destination, variously Anti-Zionism, Neturei Karta and Satmar (Hasidic dynasty). (My note: persuasive point re: Satmar (Hasidic dynasty). Alternatively, a hatnote could be placed at Satmar (Hasidic dynasty). Anti-Zionism#Jewish_anti-Zionism also seems an appropriate target.

Notes

  • Consider all old AfDs. They are legion.
Article deleted following AfD as "True Torah Jews" Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/True Torah Jews in May 2006. Little actual dispute. NN, insufficient independent sourcing.
Article deleted following AfD at same title, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jews Against Zionism, in Feb 2007. Undisputed non-n.
Article deleted at variant caps following AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jews against zionism (2nd nomination). Some dispute, but deleted.
In October 2007, article attempting to distinguish between these groups deleted following Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jews Against Zionism (disambiguation). Disputed, but consensus to delete. Deleted because disambig page did not point to existing articles.

merge and redirect. This is a complicated and obviously controversial question. Consensus has been established several times to delete this article under variant titles, and while consensus can change, the majority of editors responding to this AfD do not seem to feel that it has, in that this specific group does not seem to have enough reliable independent sourcing to verify notability for a separate article. Many of the uncomplicated arguments here for keep (i.e. not for merge or redirect) seem either to be arguing for the existence rather than notability of the group or are not offering verifiable sourcing to establish that the group is notable. Others do not address the complicating factor that the name/term has wider usage, a complication referenced repeatedly by those responders arguing to delete and underscored by the fact that those responders arguing for merge do not concord on the appropriate destination article.

While many of the keep arguments do not address the concerns raised by those arguing for delete, there is suggestion even among several of those arguing to delete that this subject may be usefully addressed somewhere on Wikipedia or, at least, that the confusion occasioned by the term should be addressed. Rather than recreate Jews Against Zionism (disambiguation), a page itself deleted following AfD, it should be equally useful to point this title to a subsection of an existing article. Reasonable objections have been raised to the redirection of the article to Neturei Karta and Satmar (Hasidic dynasty), even though I personally find Elan26's point persuasive. Anti-Zionism, and specifically the subsection on Jewish anti-Zionism, seems to be the least controversial home suggested for this information. It seems to best accord with the consensus in this AfD that the group does not demonstrate stand-alone notability but that the group and/or term may be notable in connection to a larger topic to merge a small amount (given weight concerns) of the material into that space.

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