Talk:Orange County, California

Business information

I think it would be helpful to add business section to this with notable businesses in the area. I'm not an expert since I'm not from the area, so if someone else knows more about it and is willing to take charge, let me know. Thanks. --Kaitlin510 (talk) 15:54, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Added Tallest Buildings in Orange County Section

I added a tallest buildings in Orange County section, I am not sure why it was deleted...but I re-added it.

Orange County Skinheads - Neo Nazi Movement

Should Orange County's problem with Neo Nazi gangs be mentioned in this article? Notably the PEN1 gang. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soladee (talk • contribs) 13:16, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Music Error

Black Flag is from Hermosa Beach and Sublime is from Long Beach. MB Style 02:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Politics

"In U.S. Politics, Orange County has long been typified as a bastion of conservative Republicanism. In fact, though, large numbers of Hispanics have made the county home."

What does the second sentence have to do with the first? Whatever it is, it should be made clearer than it is. - user:Montrealais

Historically, the hispanic population in this part of the country has been overwhelmingly pro-Democrat. This is changing somewhat however in recent years, the Republican party is gaining some ground. --Brion

Hispanics aren't the only ethnic group arrived in large numbers, but are one-third (or 35%) of the population. In the 1970's and 1980's, hundreds and thousands of Asians (Vietnamese, Korean, Chinese, Filipino and Thai) moved into Garden Grove, Westminster and western parts of Santa Ana, also a majority are Mexican and Central American.

It was true Orange county was once a place held as hostile to African Americans (the county was 80-90% white in 1970), but this attitude has changed since then and you may find black sections of Santa Ana, Buena Park, Cypress, Costa Mesa and La Habra that wasn't 20-25 years ago.

The racial diversity might shifted the county towards the Democrat side, but some are actually upper-middle class and hold conservative views on social and political issues. Many Vietnam war refugees, Central Americans and the Iranian community choose to vote Republican since the party was hard on communism and terrorism.

However, older generations of Mexican Americans, Asian Americans and the liberal elite voting bloc on the coastal cities vote for Democrats. It looks like Orange county is 50/50 and represents the "culture war" in state and national politics is fought harder: Richard Nixon was born/raised here, but is near Los Angeles. +207.200.116.138 04:42, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

To claim that Latino and Middle Eastern immigrants living in Santa Ana are war refugees is categorically absurd.--Truthiness 03:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Orange County attracted those with conservative patriotic beliefs, such as those whom fled the Iranian Islamic revolt, the socialist and later military regimes in South America and communist rule in east Asia. The local Vietnamese had strongly supported Ronald Reagan who was anti-communist in the 1980s but to experienced the GOP's neglect of Asian-American issues they moved to the Democrats in the 1990s by Bill Clinton.

Of course, the majority of Mexican-American voters in Orange County since the 1950's shown loyality to Democrats except the number of Republicans in the local Hispanic community (Central Americans, South Americans and Cuban Americans) risen faster than expected. Orange County used to be harsh to Hispanics, some real estate tracts and business strips didn't allow "Mexicans" to live or shop there, and the 1945 Menendez vs. school board of Westminster case challenged racial segregation of Mexican-Americans in public schools.

The formerly white Anglo majority in O.C. are actually not hard-core racist today than what people thought about O.C. like 40 years ago, when a small porportion of newcomers had openly said they fled Los Angeles in fear of "blacks" whom rioted in Watts back in 1965. In the 1980's the county was experiencing a social demographic shift as the population today was larger, more affluent, increasingly liberal, and the area's racial makeup changed to included more blacks, even more Asians and a Latino "majority". + 71.102.53.48 (talk) 18:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

"The county was given the name of Orange for its extensive orange groves." -- This seems unlikely considering that the City of Orange already existed when the county was created. It seems more likely that the county was named after the city, as a compromise for the fact that Orange did not become county seat. See [1]. --Chl 22:10, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"By 1880, there were Orange counties in six other states, as well as numerous towns and post offices so named. The California County, carved from Los Angeles County on March 11, 1889, to be sure, was named because the orange industry flourished there. 'This county was given its name by the Legislature because of the orange groves for which it is justly famous' (California Blue Book 1907, p. 278)." http://www.oc.ca.gov/ochistory/ochistoryname.asp . Futhermore the main County government history page states explicitly "And with orange groves beginning to proliferate throughout the area (150,000 orange trees), the new county was named for the fruit: 'Orange County.'" The Kenny Kao history is vaguer—it mentions only that Glassell and Chapman named the City of Orange after Orange County, Virginia—but it does not contradict these accounts. Based on this, I have restored text supporting the previously cited etymology.choster 02:03, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This dispute has come up again. I found a reference for the naming of the City of Orange after the VA county, but nothing about the county itself.[2] Given these references I'm going to once more restore the text. -Willmcw 00:07, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

Politics

The line "In the 2004 election, Orange County became the county with the largest percentage of Republican voters (Cook County, Illinois was the county with the largest percentage of Democratic voters)" is not supported by any references that I can track down. The county did not have the largest percentage of votes for Bush, nor does it have an overwhelming percentage of registered Republicans. Unless someone has a reference, I'm inclined to delete it. Willmcw 00:37, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I deleted that, and subsequently someone added this:

In the 2004 presidential elections, Orange County delivered Republican George W. Bush the largest margin of victory of any county in the nation. [3] [4]

I believe that formulation is more correct. It was not the percentage that was highest, it was the number of votes for Bush over his opponent. I see that now another editor has removed this latest version, perhaps because it's wording is still ambiguous. -Willmcw 21:29, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

I deleted it (the reformulated wording) because I read it as a percentage. I'm not sure what the significance is of a raw vote count -- the point of the paragraph is to show that O.C. is a Republican stronghold, but that's better represented by a percentage. --MrWhipple 22:26, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The article reads: "In 2004 U.S. President George W. Bush captured 60% of the county's vote, up from 56% in 2000 (despite a higher Democratic popular vote in the county)" What does that last parenthetical statement mean? Did the writer mean 'country'? And if so, why is that appropriate for this article? 68.63.58.122 04:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Eh. OC is a relic left over from when California was a GOP bastion. They're more partisan than they're conservative and care much more for their reputation as a GOP stronghold than conservative initiatives.

Graphics

The swapped graphics look good. -Willmcw 02:36, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Cities and Towns

There has been some back-and-forth lately over the list of cities in O.C. There are three types of communities being added to the list:

• Incorporated cities (e.g., Anaheim)
• Unincorporated communities under county supervision (e.g., Ladera Ranch)
• Area or place names within incorporated cities (e.g., Corona del Mar)

It seems to me there should be some sort of policy regarding which ones make it on the list, and which ones don't. Personally I think we should add the first two, but not the last. Thoughts? --MrWhipple 17:55, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think MrWhipple is right. Area or Place Names can include names of neighborhoods, regions, etc -- which could be too broad to be effective (like naming ALL individuals living in the county or listing ALL the streets in the county would be technically correct for the area encompassed by the county border, but so unselective as to render the article unusable). I suggest leaving those names out of the County Page, and including them in an article about the city they are within, or having a separate article about them which mentions that they are located within the county.

--Silvery

I agree too. Cheers, -Willmcw 01:30, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

"Music" section is a bit cluttered

The "Music" section seems to be little more than a magnet for everyone to add their favorite band. Perhaps the bulk of that section should be split off into List of musical artists from Orange County, California and the remainder should be rewritten to be a prose synopsis of the O.C. music scene(s) and history. Mike Dillon 17:55, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Sports

As much as I think the change is stupid, I'm changing the name of the Anaheim Angels to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Being that it is now their proper name, this should be reflected.:--ShawnLee

That's fine. Just make sure you don't change the mention of the "Anaheim Angels" in connection with the 2002 World Series, as that was the team's name when they won the Series. Mike Dillon 14:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Map

It would help a lot to have a map of the interior geography. -- Beland 15:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

What is this new map about? I can't figure out what the borders/colors represent. These are definitely nothing remotely close to the city boundaries. Can someone explain? --SameerKhan 04:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed the map. Looks like some sort of rainfall map but without a description and legend is pretty useless. --MarsRover 06:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Someone has reinserted the map due to its "relevance", but I'm not sure how it is relevant at all. The colors and demarcations definitely do not correspond to actual city boundaries, zip code boundaries, locally-recognized regions, or anything else that would be relevant for readers. If MarsRover is right and it is a rainfall map, it is definitely not appropriate for the first detailed map of Orange County given in this article. Does anyone know of a better map we can replace this with? --SameerKhan 06:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Yay, thanks for the new map, MarsRover! --SameerKhan 06:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Photo Request

The aerial shot of Newport suburbia was removed for copyright reasons. It was a great visual representation of the typical residential development in the OC, and I'd like to see a similar image replace it. Added to photo request category. - PatrickFisher 18:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Master Planned Communities

Someone should consider bringing a more balanced view concerning master planned communities. Perhaps cite the repetitiveness of the housing tracts and strip malls and the perceived sterile "plesantville" image...along with a lack of a nightlife, especially in the more southern cities of the county. AManSac 10:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Highways

Some of the highways currently listed never enter Orange County. (I-15, I-215, SR 60, SR 79) At the same time, some that do enter OC are ignored (A small section of I-605), and a few aren't freeways even though the text above would suggest they are (SR 74. I'm not sure about SR 1, there might be a freeway segment in South County if I remember right) 69.255.208.30 00:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The article claims that Interstate 5 was "completed" in 1954. The interstate highway system didn't exist in 1954. I think the article means the Santa Ana Freeway, which was later incorporated into the interstate system.Carduelis (talk) 18:03, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

1994 municipal bond default

This is quite a famous case, quoted by many finance textbooks. I only have secondary sources so I can't help that much, but this is quite worthy of a section if anyone has any sources. _└ ^VodkaJazz / _talk ^┐ 17:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

In many cases, secondary sources are preferred, since we can cite analysis from them. We do not solely operate from primary sources. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 17:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

If not a section it at least deserves a few sentences. Aside from being famous it had a major effect on OC government and services. It's noteworthy. -Will Beback · † · 19:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I came to this page because I was curious about the default and bankruptcy, and wanted to read more. The only reference in this article (Ref#3) is to a 1 paragraph article in Time magazine, Dec 1994. If anyone has more sources it would certainly help...--67.68.39.247 (talk) 23:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Ronald Reagan Federal Building

Uh, can somebody check the accuracy of the statement that this is the "largest building" in the county? It's not nearly as tall as the two tallest buildings, the Center tower and the Plaza tower which are located near South Coast Plaza. It doesn't seem particularly large floorspace-wise either.

http://www.ocalmanac.com/Structures/st01.htm

It may not be the tallest, but it is the largest.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 055203 (talk • contribs)

Any chance you could provide a reference instead of a bare assertion? Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

"Popular culture" subsections

How is it that "Religion" is lumped under popular culture with Television, Music, and Literature? Generally Pop Culture refers to fictional entities or other creative arts forms. I don't believe religion, albeit cultural, is appropriate under "Pop culture." Even the Wiki definition pigeon-holes the thought of popular culture to one society and religion doesn't fit that criteria. IrishLass (talk) 16:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that is a good point. If you look at the guidelines for a city at WP:USCITY (I know it's a county, but the structure can be the same), it shows a section for Arts and Culture. The popular culture section can either be a subsection of Arts and Culture or as part of media. But religion does not really belong under popular culture. Alanraywiki (talk) 16:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

So who's going to be bold and fix the page? IrishLass (talk) 16:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Before I start moving things around, how does the following structure look? I've tried to include all the existing sections.

1 History

2 Geography

2.1 Incorporated cities

2.2 Noteworthy communities

2.3 Unincorporated communities

2.4 Master planned communities

2.5 Adjacent counties

3 Demographics

3.1 Average household income by community

4 Economy

4.1 Shopping malls

4.2 Tallest buildings in Orange County

5 Arts and culture

5.1 Points of interest

5.2 Music

5.3 Literature

5.4 Religion

5.5 Orange County in popular culture

6 Sports

6.1 Sports teams

6.2 Former and defunct Orange County sports teams

7 Government

7.1 Politics

8 Education

9 Infrastructure

9.1 Major highways

9.2 Public transit

10 Notable natives and residents

11 Zip codes

12 See also

13 References

14 External links

Alanraywiki (talk) 17:20, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

This is just my personal opinion. It looks good, for the most part I agree with the changes, but I would put section 5 in the following order

5 Arts and culture

5.1 Points of interest

5.2 Religion

5.3 Music

5.4 Literature

5.5 Orange County in popular culture

or

5 Arts and culture

5.1 Points of interest

5.1.1 Music

5.1.2 Literature

5.3 Religion

5.4 Orange County in popular culture

Personally, from my experience, there are more churches and more religion in OC than music and literature. I have major (unexpressed) issues about the musical artists list of songs about OC. Are there really that many that are about Orange County, CALIFORNIA? or is there an assumption that OC, CA is the only Orange County in the country. I really want to tag that section for references. I know the music list is long, and unreferenced, but I think in terms of notability religion has more. People all over know the Crystal Cathedral and even people out here know who Chuck Smith is, but that might be for others to weigh in, if we can find people. IrishLass (talk) 17:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm fine with reordering section 5. Also, I have the same concerns as you regarding that music list. I am going to wait a day or two to hear from any others about the structure (and for when I have more time to make the changes). After restructuring we can revise the section content as needed. Thanks, Alanraywiki (talk) 17:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

From a brief glance, the list looks like just a list of bands that are from Orange County with nothing necessarily there to back up the claim that they wrote songs about Orange County. If the list stays, references which would include the song title written about the county, should be included. I've learned, you can never "over reference" an article. IrishLass (talk) 17:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Restructuring done. Alanraywiki (talk) 01:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

John Wayne Airport is located in Santa Ana not unincorporated Orange County

According to the John Wayne Airport website located at:

http://www.ocair.com/

John Wayne airport is located at:

Thomas F. Riley Terminal Address 18601 Airport Way Santa Ana, CA 92707

Thus this should be changed to Santa Ana, California. The nomenclature used for this Airport is SNA meaning Santa Ana. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.175.124.34 (talk) 05:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Music Section

Wouldn't it make more sense to just mention what bands are from Orange County? Some of these bands don't have songs about Orange County other than just referencing it or are from Orange County. --Lyght (talk) 00:35, 20 June 2008 (UTC)