User talk:J Bar

Welcome to the talk page of J Bar. Talk to me.

WikiProject Sydney

Join us at WikiProject Sydney, a collaborative effort to enhance wikipedia coverage of the Sydney area. Regards, ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 01:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Commons

Hi Jim - thanks again for all the photos. I have a suggestion that you might like to take up. With the large amount of photos you are uploading, you might at this stage want to sign up to Wikimedia Commons and upload your photos there. This enables your photos to be used in any Wikimedia project and not just Wikipedia - so people from other language projects, Wikitravel, etc. can all use the photos. You need to go here and sign up (as "J Bar") and then you click on "Upload file" on the left and upload your files as per normal. You can use categories like [[Category:Sydney]] for Sydney-related photos and [[Category:Train stations in Sydney]] for railway station pics. This will save those users who want to use them on other projects a lot of time having to download your photos and then reupload them in other projects. I have done all your photos on railway stations up until today, so you won't need to put them up. (JROBBO 06:23, 5 September 2006 (UTC))

Thank you

Thank you for your recent report at the administrators' noticeboard about a vandal user. You did an excellent job reverting the vandalism and restoring the integrity of the articles. If you encounter a similar situation again, you should do a couple of things differently.

Instead of warning a user "by hand", as you did, you should provide a formal [[WP:WARN|user warning template such as {{subst:uw-vandalism1}}, which gives you the following message:

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although we invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia, at least one of your recent edit, such as the one you made to Punchbowl, New South Wales, was not constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.

If the user does not stop, you can escalate to {{subst:uw-vandalism2}}, 3, and 4, and after that you should file a report at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism to block the user. Sometimes you can start the warnings at a number higher than 1 if the vandalism is already severe for multiple edits. In rare cases it is appropriate to block vandals without any warning at all. The general advice is to use your judgment, don't bite the newcomers, and ask the administrators if you need any help (just like you did this time, though I'm actually not an administrator). Let me know if you have any questions. Shalom ^Hello 06:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Federation

If you're interested in more Fed. material, I've just started a Fed gallery at commons. I realized I had shots of all 12 styles, so I might as well go for it.Federation Do you remember the sydney architecture.com site I told you about? They've used all my shots of the Abbey and witches houses, without giving me a credit. Might have some of yours too. I emailed them, asking for a credit, but no response yet.Sardaka (talk) 09:38, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Harassment

I blocked the IP you listed at WP:AIV but I doubt this will have any effect as it was listed to the University of NSW. If this becomes a persistent problem, either list your page for protection at WP:RFPP or drop a note on my talk page. CIreland (talk) 02:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Per your request at WP:RFPP, your user page is semi-protected indefinitely. Your User talk page is semi-protected for one week (as we don't like to restrict user communication for long periods). CIreland (talk) 03:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Article Hits

I found there's a site that keeps a record of the number of hits each article has had. The suburbs articles have had hundreds of hits per month. Nice to know. I was starting to wonder if anyone read them. The site is at [1] if you want to check it out. Sardaka (talk) 12:20, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Wiki question

Hi J Bar. I have seen that you have taken a lot of pics and are an expert at this, just want to ask you what picture on wikipedia do you think is the most popular as in the number of talk pages it is placed on. take a look at this for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:010105_fireworks2.jpg I was just interested thats all. Thanks Roadrunnerz45 (talk) 11:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Found out something you might be interested in, from the user who created the wiki hits page the most popular user pages on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Henrik#Most_visited_User_page

I had a feeling the clown might be on there and cluebot would but according to Henrik the number 1 is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Wapcaplet Dont ask me why because i dont see anything special about that page and its not as if he has made a ton of edits. Thanks Roadrunnerz45 (talk) 11:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Mosman

in-line citations...

You need to put page numbers into your inline cites. Here for example. This is particularly the case with the federation book you used which does not contain the info you said it did. thanks --Merbabu (talk) 13:13, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. I've been trying to do that whenever I can. I am currently editing from a number of locations and do not have the reference material with me at every location. As I revert vandalism and do rewrites, I'm also trying to move my references to the particular information to avoid any information being deleted. Along with a few other people in the Sydney suburbs project, we are attemptiing to add those page numbers from the reference material used. It won't happen overnight butr it will happen. Cheers. J Bar (talk) 13:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

No, they need to go in at the time. I trust I don't need to point out that you can't add info without a reference, and can you use a reference if you don't have it in front of you? The page numbers need to go in. I hope the rest of your referencing is not like it has been at Mosman. regards --Merbabu (talk) 13:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Nice regards --Merbabu (talk) 22:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Mosman

If worse comes to worse, you can always take them to Mediation. But they may have a point to an extent. I was once criticised for putting too many shots in the Sydney article, which is why I ended up doing those galleries on commons. I guess it can be overdone. Some of the articles have too many shots of shopping strips with nothing much significant in them. Guess it's largely a matter of degree.[User:Sardaka|Sardaka]] (talk) 08:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Gawd, those people can be a bit aggro. They might have a point about some of the shots, but they're so aggressive about it. Good to see Merbabu being a bit more conciliatory. Don't think I'll be going near the Mosman article for a while.Sardaka (talk) 08:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I've just done an article about Heritage homes of sydney, in case there's anything you might be able to use in it. In spite of what I said about the Mosman article, I'll add something soon on The Manor, which is mentioned in the above article. Fabulous house. Sardaka (talk) 08:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Mosman

I've responded on my talk page, where I'll continue the discussion unless you ask me otherwise. I should warn you, I've been pretty frank with this message. Please don't take it the wrong way, as it is intended to be constructive criticism. -- Mark Chovain 03:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Hang on. My response will be up shortly... -- Mark Chovain 03:59, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok - my response is back in at User talk:Chovain#Mosman. -- Mark Chovain 04:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Fediterranean travesty...

[2] - iewuh! "Contemporary interpretation" - nicely put. You seem to share my concerns. Ie, slap on a faux stone render over the beautiful federation brick work, paint it salmon pink, and install an Italianate trimmed garden - voila! >Federation + Med villa style = "Fediterranean"<. I was taking shots of such buildings the other day and want to put it into the MOsman article, but now I can't find the references I had - mostly printed. --Merbabu (talk) 23:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

PS, sorry - on closer inspection, that's a new building, right? I hate it when people try to imitate the past. I like buildings for the time. --Merbabu (talk) 23:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Statistical evidence for Central Northern Sydney

Hello,

I hope this suffices to prove the existance of the Central North Region of Sydney.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/lookup/2223E45AA4489301CA256F19001460B0?opendocument

I have simply merged the lower and central northern Sydney region into one as there is no real finite boundary (like the boundary for the North shore being the Lane Cove river).

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tourombah (talk • contribs) 11:43, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Here is one more source:

http://www.metrostrategy.nsw.gov.au/dev/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=81&languageId=1&contentId=556

I strongly feel that a name change to "Northern Sydney region" or the "Northern Suburbs (based on the train line)" is better.

Suburbs like Westleigh, Thornleigh etc are not Upper north shore. Ryde, Macquarie park etc are not Lower North shore- as you have also stated.

Thank you for your understanding and I hope we can get to a suitable outcome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tourombah (talk • contribs) 12:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi J Bar, you said on Tourombah's talk that you would like to get this right and get more input from WP Sydney. I wouldn't mind having two cents worth in a wider forum. I support your reversions of Tourombah's AGF edits until some consistency and notability have been established. I might also draw your attention to Tourombah's edits of Lower North Shore (Sydney). In general there might be two needs to be met. One is a popular, colloquial, ill-defined notion of regions (eg Lower North Shore) and the other being regions defined on ABS statistical regions of Sydney which could form the basis of many good (perhaps even featured) articles of the demographics of Sydney based on easily verifiable data from the ABS, not a mish-mash. Again we should get this right, because it has been mucked up so far. Many thanks. Bleakcomb (talk) 22:41, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Ferry wharves

In your travels, did you get a photo of the Alexandra St wharf in Hunters Hill, or the Elliott St wharf in Balmain (Balmain West wharf), or the Greenwich Point wharf (not the Bay St wharf - there are two in Greenwich)? They are most of the few ferry wharves we don't have photos for. Reply here. JRG (talk) 03:37, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. By the way, we have a picture of the Greenwich Point wharf (the Sydney Ferries one); it's the Bay St wharf served by Matilda Cruises that we don't have a picture of. There's also some old ones if you come across them - Beulah St in Kirribilli (still used by Matilda Cruises), Yeend St in Birchgrove (now partially closed I believe), Cockatoo Island dockyard wharf, old Ermington Wharf (remains at end of Spurway St, Ermington), old Pennant Hills wharf (rebuilt wharf at end of Wharf Rd, West Ryde/Melrose Park), old Redbank/Parramatta Wharf (corner of Duck River and Parramatta River, was a loading wharf for the oil refinery and is now not used - not sure if you can get in there), Dawes Point/Ives Steps (just next to Wharf 1 under the Harbour Bridge). JRG (talk) 06:57, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Spam in The Strand Arcade

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on The Strand Arcade, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because The Strand Arcade is blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person that would require a substantial rewrite in order to become an encyclopedia article.

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting The Strand Arcade, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 13:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Campbelltown / Eschol Park

Please refrain from making poorly thought out accusations of edit warring.
Another user continually vandalises the Campbelltown, Eschol Park and other Sydney suburb pages with information that does not belong in the suburb articles. My reversion of such vandalism does not constitute edit warring. Good day. OzWoden (talk) 00:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

The comment was made in regard to the number of reverts from the same editors, on a number of suburb articles regarding History, in particular Aboriginal history. If you have a problem with the facts in the articles, then I suggest you make your point on the discussion pages, rather than just delete them. If others editors agree that the information does not belong in that particular article, then the information can be removed. If you have a problem with references not being provided on a particular paragraph, then I suggest that you tag it, so that references can be provided. Cheers. J Bar (talk) 01:46, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I have a problem with sentences that are NOT facts, but since factuality is an irrelevant concept in Wikipedia my point of issue is firstly with the lack of references. As Jimmy Wales suggests, I am being bold by not simply tagging every bloody thing, but instead by weeding out the rubbish. Secondly I have a problem with references which do not support the statements for which the references refer to. And lastly I have a problem with information (referenced correctly or otherwise) which does not relate to the article at hand. If I were writing an article about you (which I wouldn't since you are living and biographical content of living persons is discouraged) I wouldn't include a paragraph or two about the culture of the people who used to live at the house where you grew up. Why? - because it is not relevant.

Also I have tagged many a sentence that required referencing - it gets a tad boring when they are not tended to properly. And if you bothered to look at a number of the discussion pages (eg. Macquarie Fields) you would notice that I did attempt to explain the irrelevance of the information a certain editor was providing. It was fruitless since their response was to visit almost every suburb article for the Western Sydney area and begin defacing those articles as well. OzWoden (talk) 12:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Correction, I delete information that is irrelevant to articles. The articles are on SUBURBS not just on "places".
The suburb did not exist before 17XX, 18XX or 19XX so therefore information that predates the suburb's existence by more than a few years is entirely irelevant. Your example about Italy is not valid since you are refering simply to a change in the name of the place - Rome existed, Naples existed, etc etc before the name change.
However, Macquarie Fields, Raby, Campbelltown, etc did not exist in any way shape or form by any name whatsoever before their respective dates of settlement. I do not wish to "deny" any particular view of history - I wish to categorise information correctly. Perhaps you ought to begin an article on the pre-settlement history of the Sydney region or similar. By the way, by definition, history begins with written records - I will let you dwell on that one. Cheers :) OzWoden (talk) 14:26, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

That might be your definition of history but it is not the only one. According to the Macquarie dictionary, History is the branch of knowledge dealing with past events. Yes, there are other definitions also given that mention written records but History is not limited to those. You say that you don't want to "deny" any particular view of history but your actions in regards to these articles, say otherwise. Anyway, why is it is so important to you, to remove any information in these articles about pre-European settlement? Cheers. J Bar (talk) 22:48, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

And according to anyone with a few active neurons, history cannot be recognised as such without (proper) evidence - generally primary or secondary sources. Not emotion-fuelled chinese-whisper style conjecture that is not written down for decades or even centuries. If it is not properly referenced then it is little more than superstitious nonsense - whether popularly believed or not. But that is all beside the point...

To answer your question, as I have mentioned in probably all of my messages on this matter, the information in question should not be in the suburb articles because pre-European settlement is irrelevent to an article about something which did not exist until post-European settlement. If pre-European settlement is so important to the article for you, why do you not include a yarn about the formation of the mountains and a little bit about plate tectonic theory and perhaps the different flora and fauna and how they evolved? (this question is rhetorical - the obvious answer is again because it is irrelevant to the suburb articles) OzWoden (talk) 09:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

On the contrary, it is not irrelevant at all. As part of the wikiproject on Sydney Suburbs, we have guidelines and headings that help people provide information on these subjects. They follow a standard wikipedia format and we try to follow those as closely as possible. These are: History, Politics, Demographics etc... History is divided into a number of sub-headings Aboriginal Culture and European Settlement being the two most important. All editors are asked to follow the guides but they are not completely strict, so alternative headings can also be included. And as matter of fact, Geography is another heading that can be used and the information you suggest can be included in that section if it significant. The wikiproject is a serious collaboration; it's not just me making this up. Cheers. J Bar (talk) 10:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC).

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:OzWoden"

As always you are ignoring the important points.

Firstly, you did not reference your supposed "standard wikipedia format" (perhaps a simple url would help to verify that that too isnt rubbish).

Secondly, whilst those headings and subheadings may be the "standard" ones, I am sure not all will be necessary for certain articles (if any) and I am sure the list is not static and can evolve as wikipedia users' concepts of relevance evolve (not looking at anyone). In any event they ought to be interpretted as guidelines and used where appropriate. This you have already identified yourself when you said one "can" (i.e. one does not have to, but one may) use a "geography" sub-heading.

Thirdly for a suburb article, only a very brief mention of previous inhabitants of the area is sufficient, since the article is surely about the suburb and not the area (the two things are distinct). An article about the suburb of Campbelltown would for example state in its history section just one sentence that prior to the establishment of the suburb, the XYZ tribes inhabited the landscape. On the other hand the history section of an article about the region which contains campbelltown (Bunburry I think, or whatever the regional name is) would contain a paragraph (or even more) about Aboriginal habitation, then the same for post-settlement habitation. The reason for this is that the history of the suburb begins at a particular date (year) whereas the history of the area extends back further than that (assuming records existed for which we can define as history). OzWoden (talk) 06:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with OzWoden on one point. It would be good to have an URL that lists recommended standard headings. I can't find anything obvious on the Wikiproject Sydney page which would be the sensible place. I've just been using other articles as the basis for what I do but even the Featured and Good articles have a wide variety of formats. Crico (talk) 21:05, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Rozelle

It looks to me like we have a problem with the Rozelle article. It says that Callan Park is in Rozelle, but according to Gregory's, it is actually in Lilyfield, (being immediately on the Lilyfield side of the boundary). Seems to me this should be changed; it's the kind of factual thing that we don't want to get wrong. Let me know what you think.

Sardaka (talk) 10:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Wentworth Park

Hi mate, checking references is what I did before I made the change. According to both my street directory and the NSW government's mapping server, the gazetted boundary of Glebe and Ultimo runs along Wattle St, including the whole of Wentworth Park in Glebe. I admit the first picture is better looking, but Wentworth Park is unfortunately not technically in Ultimo. Maybe a more accurate caption will suit until someone obtains a more recent shot of Ultimo itself. - Aucitypops (talk) 05:04, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Just to confirm, the listed website for the WP greyhounds has their address as "Wentworth Park Road, Glebe". - Aucitypops (talk) 05:11, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi again. I noticed that someone deleted my entry on the railway viaduct in Wentworth Park. Do you know who it was? I know we have to accept that people will make changes we don't agree with, but in this case there was no rational reason for dumping the material completely.

Anyway, that's life. Did you see that Adam's back? Seems he got off lightly.

Sardaka (talk) 12:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. The weather's been holding me up too, but occasionally I go out and get something; some things aren't affected by the weather as much as others. Sardaka (talk) 14:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Why delete Manahan from Condell Park article?

Manahan is a region near Bankstown Hospital and shares the same postcode as Condell Park, it's only fitting that it be added considering Bankstown Airport is mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annhoang (talk • contribs) 14:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Judy Moran

An article that you have been involved in editing, Judy Moran, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Judy Moran. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Longhair\^talk 03:58, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Camden

G'day, I just noticed that the population figure in the infobox for Camden got changed at some time from that for the suburb (about 3000) to that for the council area (about 45,000). I was going to change it back but noticed you'd changed the infobox from a suburb to a town. If you think Camden is a town rather than a suburb, do you think the population should be the larger figure as you would with a country town with suburbs like Wagga or the smaller GNB definition of Camden the suburb? Personally, I think Camden is part of Sydney's suburban sprawl and should be considered a suburb but I accept it has a long history as a separate town so I'm open to other people's opinions on the matter. Crico (talk) 01:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I saw this message, and thought I might give my two cents. We tend to use "official" designations whenever we can. Sometimes this involves information from the GNB (in determining if things are suburbs or not), other times from the ABS (in determining if something is "part of Sydney"). In this case, Camden is described by GNB as being a County of Shoalhaven, a parish of the Camden LGA, and a suburb of the Camden LGA. We cover the Camden LGA in Camden Council, so I think regardless of whether or not Camden is part of Sydney, this article should be considered a suburb (of either Sydney or Camden LGA - not sure which) -- Mark Chovain 01:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

For the record, GNB consideres Camden (suburb) to be a suburb of Camden (town).[3] It doesn't define "Camden (town)", but the only thing I can find called "Camden" that contains "suburbs" is Camden LGA.[4]. I suspect we should be treating Camden LGA as the town. Perhaps we need three articles here: Camden, New South Wales for the suburb, Camden Council for the local council organisation, and Camden Local Government Area (or something else?) for the area covered by the town.-- Mark Chovain 01:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

With the urban sprawl of our cities extending to these towns on the outskirts, it's difficult sometimes to determine whether a place is still considred a town in its own right or whether it has become an outlying suburb of the city. I'm hesitant to agree with the idea of having three articles for Camden. As you guys suggest, I always follow what appears GNB too because that's the official designation. From what I see there, it looks like we should be treating Camden, New South Wales as a suburb in the local government of Camden Council. I don't think it's a good idea to have a separate town article as well. It will just complicate things and cause more confusion. Chances are that Camden Council will eventually be declared a city, like many councils in Sydney and that might then be less confusing. Cheers. J Bar (talk) 05:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Sydney airport

I rather like you pic of Sydney airport but some wnk editor thinks that a gallery of four photos in the article is to much. I have restored this for you. Napperville206.197.59.9 (talk) 03:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

maroubra beach

ok i understand the need for factual material, but what I edited was part of: "Maroubra Beach sits on Maroubra Bay. Mahon Pool is located north of the beach, near Mistral Point. There are two surf clubs at Maroubra: Maroubra Surf Life Saving Club and South Maroubra Surf Life Saving Club. Arthur Byrne Reserve sits behind both these clubs." For this and the whole rest of the article there are no references. How about simply "Maroubra beach is approximately" 1 km long". I think it's very relevant that it is a long beach... do I need to reference to a street directory? but as I said more than half the article (after refernce 5) is not referenced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alpalfour (talk • contribs) 12:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Rouse Hill

I notice that you have cleaned up some of my entry on the Rouse Hill page. Thanks for this. But I do notice that the wording related to Christ Church and the Ministry and Education Centre no longer conveys the correct meaning. The Ministry and Education Centre is a new (separate) building to Christ Church and the Old Hall, but all three buildings are on the same 3/4 acre site. You have talked about these three buildings being "the centre" and opening on 27 Apr 08 which is not correct. The Ministry and Education Centre (i.e. the new building) was opened on 27 Apr 08. Christ Church was opened in 1863. The hall was opened in 1908. (KH2155 2 July 2008) —Preceding comment was added at 02:17, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Indigenous Australian, Campbelltown, New South Wales etc.

Your constant deletions and reverts of information regarding anything to do with Indigenous Australians in so many articles including Sydney suburbs of south-western Sydney are desruptive. Your snide remarks at other editors in the Edit Summary are not helpful either. Please stop your disruptive editing. If your vandalism continues, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. J Bar (talk) 03:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

First point; I do not engage in vandalism.

Second point; Which edits are you (wrongly) suggesting are vandalism and why?

Third point; Why are my edits "desruptive"?

Fourth point; My so called "snide" remarks were merely there to enlighten other editors.

P.S. You may concentrate any response on the first and second points.

OzWoden (talk) 12:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I first note that in your abrubt response on my Talk Page that you did not address any of my points or questions that I posed above.

Also, in response to "If you wish to delete information, you should discuss it on the talk page first." - I did.

You first "warned" me on 03:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC) and then posted another "last warning" on 09:09, 5 July 2008 (UTC).

Both warnings were in regard to the Indigenous Australians article.

I will draw your attention to the fact that my last edit to the said article was on 11:44, 27 June 2008. Your first warning was subsequent to this edit and your "last warning" was subsequent to your first warning without any edits to the article by myself in between.

Please explain your actions!

Further, on what authority do you warn me? OzWoden (talk) 00:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Your Oppinion on the South Durras Article

Hi!,

Sorry I haven't talked to you in a long time. I am messaging to ask what you think of the article since another user thinks it's not worthy of being kept.

I appriciate your feedback.

--Loy Wong (talk) 00:30, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Regarding your reply, you mentioned that there was a separate article for Durras. I tried to find it but couldn't. If you can find it, can you please send me a link. Also, I have more photos from Sth. Durras that I have to load, but after I tried to include one, it was deleted due to it not being registered correctly. Can you please explain to me how to do it correctly.

Cheers for now!

Mrs. Lei Loy Wong

--Loy Wong (talk) 09:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)