Talk:Overseas Filipinos

Article name and content

This discussion started on Wikipedia:Tambayan_Philippines, but I've moved it here. Gronky 01:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I beleive that the two-word title is needlessly inaccurate. It includes many categories, one of which is Filipinos who are on holiday outside of the Philippines.

There is very little in common between overseas settled Filipinos and overseas holidaying Filipinos. The holiday habbits of Filipinos has more in common with Culture of the Philippines, so that's where that info should be. Then, if that category of overseas Filipinos is not described in this article, the title is misleading (just as the Overseas Chinese title is misleading). It's not terrible, but it could be better.

What adjective can be added to make the title describe the category of filpinos that the article is about. I agree now that my original suggestion of "overseas filipino communities" is too narrow (since not everyone participates in the community). How about "Filipinos residing overseas"? or "Filipinos living abroad"? or "Overseas settled Filipinos"? or "Emigrant Filipinos"? Gronky 01:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Overseas Filipinos always implies working abroad or studying abroad, both emigrants and non-emigrants. Filipinos on holiday are called tourists :) --Noypi380 06:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Should we not combine this page with the overseas Philipino Worker page they appear to duplicate each other substantially. It might be best if both search terms are directed to a single page (im not sure hoow to do this) Nickhk 01:31, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Nickhk

I think this should be expanded and it should be consistent and linked to the 'Filipino People' page

I do believe that if a merging should be done, it should be renamed to just the "Filipino Diaspora" since it is about Filipinos that are in parts of the world, other than the Philippines. Since Filipinos around the world are not necessarily workers, I suggest that this should be just the title for it. We also have to realize that with this article, we're not just talking about Filipino workers, but the Filipino dispersion around the world in general.

Merger

A request to merge Overseas Filipino Worker to Overseas Filipino has been made for the reasons stated above. Pls vote, and explain your reasons. Thanks.

• Merge. For the reasons stated above. It also would be hard to fill both articles. Better to merge, and have one, good, long article, than to to have two short ones. Overseas Filipinos imply all OF workers, OF students, and "TNTs". --Noypi380 12:24, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

• Merge. For the reasons stated above. Nickhk

Ok, then, I'll merge it. Pls edit accordingly. :) --Noypi380 07:58, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Question on Filipino official's number of remittances

2004 SURVEY ON OVERSEAS FILIPINOS, Philippine National Statistics Office, on OFWs:

• 1.06 million Overseas Filipinos Workers
• 33.4% are unskilled workers, 15.4% are Trades and related workers, 15.1% are plant and machine operators and assemblers.
• 49.3% are males, 50.7% are females.
• Remittances are 64.7 billion Philippine pesos (equals 1.2 billion USD then)

Even other Filipino official's number is about 10 billion.

Or it is my mistake?AirBa 03:02, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Changing "countries" to "cities"

In my experience, Filipino emigrant communities are concentrated in certain cities, not spread across countries. I've been in a state of the USA where I saw no Filipinos, and I've been in two places in Spain where one was full of Filipinos and the second had none. This section is needlessly and misleadingly imprecise. Any objections to noting the cities? Or, any better ideas for how to improve this? Gronky 09:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

No objections, in fact, good idea. :) --Noypi380 03:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

data

Philippines	1990	1991	1992	1993	1994	1995	1996	1997	1998	1999	2000	2001	2002							
Workers' remittances, receipts (BoP, current US$)  (mill)	262	329	315	311	443	432	569	1,057	204	102	125	124	192

--World Development Indicators 2004

Data sources do not correspond

Is it possible that the source claiming there are 1.06 Overseas Filipino Workers and 7 million permanent residents/contractual workers abroad are both correct? This doesn't make sense to me.

Also, the 2004 Overseas Filipino Workers Survey says they remitted 1.15 billion USD, but BSP, the central bank of the philippines, says it was 8.55 billion USD. The BSP report is linked from the POEA: [1]. Direct link is here: [2] Canadianpotatoes 19:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Filipinos in Italy

According to the this article, Filipinos number between 500 000 and 600 000 in Italy. In the Filipino people article, however, the figure given is 76 000. I’m hoping someone could fix that.

I checked the sources listed on this article, and it seems like the figure of 76,000 on the Filipino people article coincides with the sources presented. I've added a request for sources on the 600,000 figure that was given. --Edward Sandstig 16:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

another Merger and tiptoeing on the Terminology

i have recently merged the List of Filipinos abroad with this article, also, i have explicitly declared the implied usage of the terminology in this article i hope this helps to clarify things

the 1st paragraph now reads:

An Overseas Filipino is a person of Philippine origin who lives outside of the Philippines. This term applies both to people of Filipino ancestry who now live and reside as citizens of a different country, and those who continue to be Filipino citizens and those supporting their families back in the Philippines. It may also extend to Filipinos having extended holidays abroad, however, common usage does not usually include this group.

any further insight is welcome

.: Seth Nimbosa :. 00:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

___________________________________

Fil-foreign

I see that Fil-foreign redirects to this page. I have only seen the term "Fil-foreign" used in relation to Fil-foreign players in the Philippine Basketball Association (PBA). As I understand it, the PBA treats Fil-foreign players as not-quite Filipino. I may have that wrong, but whatever the meaning of "Fil-foreign" is, it seems to me that this page ought to explain the meaning if "Fil-foreign" is to redirect to this page. --- Boracay Bill 03:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Statistics on Overseas Filipinos by Occupation

To add more value to this article, I believe we should put statistics on the numbers of Filipinos overseas by occupation.

For example: Domestic Helpers: 65% Nursing: 25% IT Workers: 5% Hospitality: X% Practising Doctors: Y% Accountants: N% etc.. We could also break it down by country. Eg: Filipinos in Australia: 90% Skilled Professional, etc Filipinos in Hong Kong: 90% Domestic Helpers, etc

FRM SYD 06:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Please do not overlook the need to cite sources for the stats. -- Boracay Bill 01:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Actually, that is my main problem, I don't have access to these stats or Government Stats but really want to find out. Does anyone have access to any information around this? Thanks.

FRM SYD 01:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

And please remember that some sources of stats only count registered/declared/legal workers. Gronky 03:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

==Issues== section

This section reeks of POV and original research. It also contains various unsupported and possibly incorrect assertions. I propose deletion of this section. Objections? Comments? -- Boracay Bill 01:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to it being deleted. It says too much without citing sources. Gronky 10:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed the section. -- Boracay Bill 04:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

==Challenges== section

I tried to verify the cites in this section. Rather than sprinkle {{failed_verification}} links throughout this section, I will remark on the results of my verification efforts here:

• wage cuts

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about wage cuts. How are wage cuts a challenge for Filipino OFWs to face abroad, anyway? Is it actually the case that employers will cut the wages of an OFW once the OFW is overseas and on the job, not paying the promised wage but actually paying something less? If so, a cite recounting cases where this happened would be useful.

• contract violations

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about contract violations

• welfare neglect

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about welfare neglect
• note-BBC seems to say little or nothing about neglect of OFW welfare

• unfair labor practices

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about unfair labor practices.

• illegal recruitment (how is "illegal recruitment" a challenge which is faced abroad?)

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about illegal recruitment.

• physical/verbal/sexual abuses

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about physical/verbal/sexual abuses.
• note-Flor seems to say nothing about physical/verbal/sexual abuses. (Yes, I do know about the case of Flor Contemplacion)
• note-Riyadh seems to recount an incident of nontargeted criminal violence, not physical/verbal/sexual abuse.

• mysterious deaths

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about mysterious deaths.
• note-Riyadh seems to recount an incident of nontargeted criminal violence, not an incident of a mysterious death.
• note-Lebanon speaks of a case where the family which had lost support by an OFW said to have suicided by jumping from an 8th floor window disbelieved the report, saying that they suspected foul play not involving a fall from 8 floors up. Interesting allegation, but nothing more than an allegation.

• implementation of repressive migrant policies

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about implementation of repressive migrant policies.
• note-BBC seems to say little or nothing about implementation of repressive migrant policies, unless deportation of illegals is considered repressive.

• crackdowns (how are "crackdowns" a "Challenge"? Crackdowns on what?)

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about crackdowns.
• note-BBC reports a Malaysian crackdown on illegal immigrants. How is this a "Challenge"?

• raids and zoning (how are "raids and zoning" a "Challenge"?)

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about raids and zoning.
• note-Flor seems to say little or nothing about raids and zoning.

• racial profiling and discrimination

• note-Flor seems to say little or nothing about racial profiling and discrimination.
• note-BBC reports a Malaysian crackdown on illegal immigrants. Is enforcement of laws equivalent to discrimination against lawbreakers? If it is equivalent, is that a bad thing?
• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about racial profiling and discrimination.

• kidnappings

• note-Gabnet quotes a Gabnet rant which says more about a POV point than it says about how kidnappings are, in general, a Challenge for OFWs

• withholding pay and/or confiscating/hiding documents in some countries

• note-Flor seems to say nothing about withholding pay or confiscating/hiding documents.
• note-Gabnet does this requoted Gabnet rant point up withholding of pay or confiscating/hiding of documents?
• note-Riyadh seems to say nothing about withholding pay and/or confiscating/hiding documents
• note-Lebanon seems to say nothing about withholding pay and/or confiscating/hiding documents

• abuse, assault, sexual harassment or murder of OFWs (mainly DHs)

• note-Migrante seems to say nothing about this.
• note-Flor seems not to speak to that point. (Yes, I do know about the case of Flor Contemplacion - a cite which did speak to that point in relation to her case would be better.)

• NGOs "keen on taking action"

• note-Migrante IMO an external link would be better here than a ref citation
• note-Gabnet the gabnet rant requoted here doesn't seem to point up Gabriela's keenness on taking action.

• RP govt urging OFWs to report any misconduct or abuse by employers to local Philippine consulates

• note-DFA (cited twice in one sentence here) doesn't seem to urge this. I have seen other items (items not cited here) which did speak of this.

• risk of involvement in a conflict

• note-Lebanon doesn't seem to point up risk of involvement in a conflict.

Regarding note-Migrante, see WP:EL#Links_normally_to_be_avoided #3,4. -- Boracay Bill 02:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Added {{citecheck|section|date=March 2007}} to this section. -- Boracay Bill 06:05, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I added the {{failed verification}} tags which I mentioned above. -- Boracay Bill 23:22, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The humongous amount of failed verification tags is making it really difficult to read. --Destron Commander 10:00, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Overseas population figures

I added a bunch of s in the infobox and wrapped some external links in ref tags. Also, in the Nations with large Filipino constituencies section:

• addded s
• Italy - flagged a dead link
• Ireland this section says 3,000, the cited source says 3,999, the infobos says 85,000
• Hong Kong - used the cite which the infobox used

more changes planned. -- Boracay Bill 04:33, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

• Removed {{unreferenced}} tag because of display formatting conflict with the infobox.
• Changed Taiwan to Republic of China
• In Republic of China, replaced {{ref}/{{note} to {{ref_label}}/{{note_label}}.
• Add {{ref_label}}/note_lable}}hooking infobox to the ROC note.
• Changed handling of cite from HK Central Statistics office to handle similarly to ROC stats cite.
• Changed handling of cite from Ireland Central Statistics office to handle similarly to HK and ROC stats cites. -- Boracay Bill 05:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Population figures

I'm thinking of redoing the population figures in this article, using figures from STATISTICAL DATA ON OVERSEAS FILIPINO WORKERS (OFWs). This MS Excel spreadsheet is one of the items currently listed in the article's General statistics from Philippine government subsection under External links. In some (most?) cases, these figures differ substantially from figures currently in the article, which are either from other sources or from unknown/uncited sources. Comments? -- Boracay Bill 08:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I think there should be more figures or a more summarized data inside. It would be better to make them more tabular and would be useful for study guides and research. By the way, how do people who edit this support your self at tambayan pinoy? any money given to update this site? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nap-de-coco (talk • contribs) 20:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Total population

from the info box:

"10 million[1]
11% of the Philippine population"

How can it be 11% of the Philippine populaton when their not even in the Philippines? I mean it's Overseas Filipinos. So does that mean Filipino Americans count as part of the philippine population?
Coojah 11:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmmmm... I think that the implication intended by the statement in the infobox was that the total number of Overseas Filipinos (as Overseas Filipino is defined in the article) verses Filipinos (here, I think the term Filipino was intended to refer to citizens of the RP) is about 11% of the total number RP citizens who are living inside the RP. However, after taking a look at the cited supporting source, I don't think that the cited source says that. Accordingly, I have placed a {{failed verification}} tag. -- Boracay Bill 13:46, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Number of filipinos in the US

I have just reverted an edit by User:Coojah. The edit changed the figure for Filipinos in the U.S. in the infobox from 4,000,000 to 2,807,731. The edit summary said: "look at the source, its not close to 4 mil.".

Besides the infobox, the article contains a section titled, "Nations with large Filipino constituencies". The "United States" portion of that section contains the statement: "The Filipino population in the U.S. is estimated to be 2,807,731. As of 2007, this number grew to an estimated 4 million.", citing the same supporting source cited in the infobox.

The supporting source turns out to be two separate sources:

1. A U.S. Census Bureau 2005 American Community Survey counted 2,807,731 persons identified as "Filipino alone or in any combination". I guess these would be persons who identified themselves to the surveyor as "Filipino", possibly in combination with one or more other ethnicities.
2. A U.S. State Department Background Note on the Philippines dated May, 2007. This says: "There are an estimated four million Americans of Philippine ancestry in the United States, and more than 250,000 American citizens in the Philippines."

Actually, in terms of the article, I think neither number is correct. The article's intro says: "An Overseas Filipino is a person of Philippine origin who lives outside of the Philippines." Many of the persons counted by both of the cited sources would not be persons of Philippine origin -- they would be persons born outside of the Philippines who considered themselves to have ethnic or ancestral ties to the Philippines. That suggests that both numbers are probably too high by some unknown amount. -- Boracay Bill 06:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

--Gaui (talk) 21:27, 5 December 2007 (UTC)== There are Filipinos in Iceland too == Number of Filipinos living in Iceland is around 1000, about half is already Icelandic citizens. The whole population of Iceland is 306 000. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gatlason (talk • contribs) 21:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

New Zealand section

Why is this protected? I can't remove possibly offensive/unproven material. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.7.241.89 (talk) 17:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Fixed a few problems with this article

I've reverified the items citing POEA2004 as a supporting source, and made the following changes:

1. Changed the infobox figure for Singapore from 136,189 to 136,489 to make it agree with the info in POEA2004
2. Removed the infobox POEA2004 cite from Finland, as POEA2004 doesn't mention Finland
3. Changed the infobox figure for Belgium from 12,810 to 12,600 to make it agree with the info in POEA2004
4. Changed the infobox figure for Switzerland from 11,996 to 14,647 to make it agree with the info in POEA2004
5. Relabeled the links and backlinks sequentially a thru i (two links were labeled k, and some backlinks were missing or nonfunctional.

Incidentally, {{Infobox Ethnic group}} only supports 31 listed countries and this article currently attempts to use it to list 36 entries POEA2004 links now labeled f, g, and h are numbers 33, 34, and 36 and those backlinks are nonfunctional because the entries don't appear in the infobox. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 05:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Meaning of Balikbayan

The word Balikbayan redirects to this page. Would like to know if a person who returns to the Philippines is called a "Balikbayan". Could an expert please add a clarification to this article? Note that there is already an article on "Balikbayan Box". My specific question has to do with whether the word can also apply to a person. Salamat. WWriter (talk) 01:17, 2 August 2008 (UTC)