Talk:Indian subcontinent

Where did the term "subcontinent" originate? The term predates the acceptance of plate tectonics - it was common in Kipling in the 19th century, back when plate tectonics wasn't even a crank theory, let alone accepted science. - David Gerard 17:18, Feb 29, 2004 (UTC)

S3000 & Vandalism

This guy has been repeatedly undoing edits that I make because they are not "pro-Indian". I make my edits based on a neutral point of view, to conform with Wikipedia Standards, yet S3000 repeatedly undoes the spelling corrections and citation tags that I insert. He continuously accuses me of blanking pages, vandalizing, and threatening me. Overall he is preventing the development of this article.--76.106.41.173 (talk) 00:31, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by Pro-Indian? Is inserting information on the actual size of a country make me Pro-Indian? The first line of the Wikipedia:NPOV article writes that The neutral point of view is a means of dealing with conflicting verifiable perspectives on a topic as evidenced by reliable sources. You need reliable sources? You can tabulate them from this list (area) and this list (population). All information in those lists are from the UN. And why am I preventing the development of this article? I have, for long been inviting you to discuss this with me but you have been ignoring them. You have been also blanking your own userpage as done here and here amongst some. If you are really interested in the development of this article, why not you discuss this issue with me to the end before making more edits. You recent edit required citation, and to that I've provided. Now what more is needed? S3000 ☎ 11:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You repeatedly inserted information without inserting citations for them. After I brought this up, you choose to insert the citations. Before that you would repeatedly undo all my edits, thus hindering the development of this article. You also undid the spelling and grammar mistakes, I corrected. As to my user page; If it is "my" user page, than isn't it up to me to decide whatever to do with it? And yes, you are being "Pro-Indian", from your history of contributions to Wikipedia, you repeatedly edit changes in favor to India and sometimes without a NPOV. --76.106.41.173 (talk) 21:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In fact I have been mentioning to you various times to check out the pages on the List of countries and outlying territories by total area and List of countries by population to ascertain the facts for yourself. I even mentioned more than once in your talk page but you didn't seem to care and kept on deleting them. I repeatedly undid your edits as you chose not to pursue this matter on this talk page or on my talk page earlier, although I've invited you to do so. Regarding your talk page, you are free to delete what you like, but why I wanted it there was because you were not acting accordingly. I repeatedly asked you to discuss this matter with me but you didn't, and you were continuing removing phrases. I initiated discussions on your talk page but you chose not to reply. Only now you are involving yourself in some constructive discussions, so further matters can be posted here. I'm also curious to know what are the 'spelling and grammer' corrections you made that I undid. Moving on, if you feel any of my edits aren't in accordance with NPOV, please bring it up in the talk pages of those articles (or on my talk page), and I'll hear you out. It isn't a problem with me. I'm always open to people's opinion as long as they are relevant. S3000 ☎ 13:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV

Can't we tone down the statement that:

It is also known as the "Subcontinent" and, though "Indian subcontinent" is the standard name used in international circles, "Indo-Pak subcontinent", which has cache primarily in the nation of Pakistan.

a little? Maybe something like:

It is also known just as the "Subcontinent", the "Indian subcontinent", and the "Indo-Pak subcontinent", with the last phrase preferred in Pakistan.

--iFaqeer 21:06, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

No.--D-Boy 04:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, how about renaming the article to Indo-Pak-Bangla-Lanka-Nepali Subcontinent? Oh forgot to add Bhutanese. LOL! --Incman|वार्ता 05:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is an old topic from the dates, but just in case it every comes back, as a Bangladeshi, I do not like the use of Indian Subcontinent to describe the countries in South Asia, since there is the terminology "South Asia" itself. However, as far as I know, from the geological perspective, "Indian Subcontinent" is a technical term and it should be left as it is, unless one can cite technical papers (produced inside and outside South Asia) that use a different terminology.

urnonav 06:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Come on people, this is insane. Just because Pakistan was craved out of India just over half a century ago doesn't mean we have to change the name to Indo-Pak subcontinent. This name has been long standing because the subcontinent is located on the Indian Plate and because a large part of it is surrounded by the Indian Ocean. Then Iran may also want their name there because they form on the Indian plate too! and right from Indonesia and Australia, to South Africa would wanna be part of the Indian Ocean name! Is that logical? Although Sri Lanka and Nepal were not part of British India, they too come under the Indian Subcontinent. So why can't Pakistan be of the same league? To make it simple, India occupies, by far the largest part of the subcontinent, making its name mark the place. S3000 ☎ 14:48, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That last line is not accurate logic. It is the other way round. The Subcontinent wasn't named after India. The Republic of India was named after the Subcontinent. Historically, the region of India has been there for a few millenia now. The RoI, however, is recent creation dating back only to late 40s. That is also when citizens of the other countries in the geographic Indian region started complaining about the terminology "Indian Subcontinent" since Indian now gets used mainly as a demonym for RoI, not as a geographic description - not since 1947. Why can we not refer to it as just the "Subcontinent"? AFAIK, no other "subcontinents" exist. Also, what is the map of Indian vegetation doing in this article? Shouldn't it be in the article India? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.206.45.201 (talk) 17:14, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The fact is, we can't change a hallmark name just to suite the preferences of some groups. Pakistan, Bangladesh and other countries that form the subcontinent only came into existance (as a sovereign country) recently, while the name India has been used to mark the entire place for centuries (greater India). I meant by my last line (in my earlier post) that India is the most significant country in the subcontinent (in terms of size and population), and that's why the name hasn't changed. In my opinion, the name 'subcontinent' is too ambiguous. Indian subcontinent marks that it's on the Indian ocean, Indian plate, and the most significant landmark on it is India. S3000 ☎ 10:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"we can't change a hallmark name just to suite the preferences of some groups". Of course we can. That's exactly how all names are arrived at anyway - by satisfying someone's whims. Btw, India has officially existed for one less day than Pakistan. So, by your last argument, we should call it the "Pakistani Subcontinent". Right?

I agree that the "region of India" has existed as long as Asia has existed, but the naming has become too ambiguous after creation of the Republic of India: "Indian" can be a demonym of Republic of India or of the region. The centuries you are referring to, are centuries when Republic of India did not exist. Nor did any country called India. It was strictly a regional definition. Today "Indian" always refers to Republic of India except in few cases like the subcontinent and ocean. For example, "Indian population" or "Indian states" never refers to Nepal or Bangladesh or Bhutan. So, for anything that refers to the region and not the state, logic dictates we move towards "South Asia". It's a question of keeping up with time as things change. Do we still call Americas "New World" or Germany "Prussia"? No, because there is no point of living in the past. Btw, how is "subcontinent" too ambiguous? What else can it refer to?

Style

"Tone down"? There's no attack or fire in this statement, which has nothing to do with NPOV but the current state of affairs. Indian subcontinent is a term overwhelmingly used to identify the area and shortening to 'subcontinent' by non-Pakistanis always implies "Indian subcontinent". The current suggestion also sounds clumsy. We should also give preference to the standard (and most-used) name (Indian subcontinent). How about this?

The Indian subcontinent is also referred to, more simply, as just the "Subcontinent". It is also known, primarily in Pakistan, as the "Indo-Pak subcontinent".

By prevaricating we're not going to do anything but shroud the truth of the subject. We should just tell it like it is.--LordSuryaofShropshire 21:30, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Usage Note

What do folks think of my latest changes?--iFaqeer 22:53, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

History is history

A historical reality cannot be wiped out by current political expediencies. History and politics should not be merged - here we are writing an encyclopaedia, and not discussing political dynamics and terminology. As such, I shall be restoring the page with suitable contents at the earliest as a redirection to South Asia is not appropriate. --Bhadani 16:21, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone did the job. I shall try to contribute more, as and when possible. --Bhadani 16:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. The reinstatement is appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.197.240 (talk • contribs) of 20.05.06

You may register if you wish. --Bhadani 16:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

South Asia

Can someone explain why the "see also" is constantly reverted? Unless it is explained here, I will revert to a version with it. Hornplease 05:52, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Balochistan

As far as I know, most of the Balochistan region lies within the Iranian Plateau which geographically is not a part of the Indian subcontinent. Since Balochistan covers a major part of Pakistan, the article should mention that geographically not entire Pakistan lies within the Indian subcontinent. Remember, Indian subcontinent is a geographic term, not a political one. --Incman|वार्ता 20:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingly, User:Bharatveer first blanked the references (with the reference section too!) twice [1],[2], and then even more interestingly, changed the text to claim that Balochistan is a part of the region!! I'd request User:Bharatveer to read the reference before making such reverts and changes. Specifically, when the text (and the reference) said that Pakistan (excluding Balochistan) is part of Indian subcontinent, I don't understand the logic behind changing the text to include Balochistan as a separate country under Indian subcontinent! --Ragib 08:27, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The cite regarding Balochistan refers to the Iranian province of Sistan-e-Baluchistan, not the Pakistani province of Balochistan. A better cite is needed. Afghan Historian 17:55, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Though the article is about Sistan-e-Baluchistan, it clearly says that Balochistan (and not just Iranian Balouchistan) lies in the Middle East. The article makes the point very clear. --Incman|वार्ता 18:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, scroll down and read the sections on History and Environmental issues. The article talks about Balouchistan as a whole. --Incman|वार्ता 18:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I never denied that Balochistan does not lie on the Iranian plateau. I was just asking for a more specific article, so other readers would not be confused. Their are better sources out there for this fact. Afghan Historian 15:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The subcontinent is not the same thing as the Indian plate; it is the geographical union of all the countries that (substantially) lie on the India Plate, and it therefore includes all of Pakistan. Western Baluchistan does not lie on the Indian plate, but it does lie on the subcontinent, similarly, the Mustang region of Nepal lies on the Tibetan plateau, and therefore not on the India plate, but it does lie on the subcontinent. The definition of "subcontinent," according to the Oxford English Dictionary (1989 edition), "A land mass of great extent, but smaller than those generally called continents; a large section of a continent having a certain geographical or political independence; spec. applied formerly to South Africa, and more recently to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka." Note geographical or political. As citations of usage, the OED gives: "1971 R. RUSSELL in Aziz Ahmad's Shore & Wave 'The novel in Urdu, as in all the modern languages of the South Asian sub-continent, is of very recent growth.' 1972 Times of India 'Nov. 11/4 Mr. Azad outlined his Government's views on the political problems of the sub-continent' 1978 L. HEREN Growing up on The Times v. 175 'Many Indians refused to accept the partition of the sub-continent.'" In other words, the term "South Asian subcontinent" or "Indian subcontinent" is primarily a geographical, but not entirely a geographical term, and it is not identical to the Indian (techtonic) plate. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 16:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is it any different from South Asia? How? Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 18:17, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wildlife of the Indian Subcontinent

Kindly contribute to this article when you get time, and request others too.

Thanks

Atulsnischal 01:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nepal

I was looking at some plate studies of Nepal and from what I can see, a good portion of it does not lie on the Indian subcontinent proper, but on the edge of the Tibetan plateau, within the Himalayan range. Afghan Historian 15:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge discussion

It is a geographical reality. --Bhadani (talk) 17:20, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can we please go ahead and remove Indian subcontinent from this awful merge proposal? Both Indian subcontinent, the geographical/geological article, and Indianized kingdom, the historical article, ought to be removed from considered merger with the other articles about contemporary culture. Apparently the main discussion of the merger is going on at Talk:Indies. --arkuat (talk) 06:20, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is this any different from the Indian Plate? If so, how? Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 03:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]