Talk:George Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence

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George, Duke of Clarence

Listed as "George Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence". Plantagenet is the retronym of a royal house, not a surname, and was not used as a surname. Should be simply, "George, Duke of Clarence".

See also here: [1] ScottyFLL 18:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't terribly mind a move, but it should be noted that in his case, "Plantagenet" was not a retronym. His father Richard, Duke of York, called himself "Richard Plantagenet," perhaps to emphasize his superior claim to the throne over the reigning king Henry VI. (The nickname had existed before that, but nobody had used it as a surname.) But I don't know if his children used it. john k 19:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find my source, but I believe the term Plantagenet was not used to describe the royal house until Shakespeare's time. It is a retronym because it is used to describe people who pre-existed its use as a royal-house name. It is not my opinion that royals should be identified by using what we call a surname anyway, because they themselves do not use one (though modern-day record keepers might).

Examples of royals listed in Wikipedia whose HEADINGS do not include surnames are Prince William of Wales, Prince Philip, and Queen Elizbeth II. I think we should follow suit with the Duke of Clarence here. ScottyFLL 06:19, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Plantaganet is correct for either Richard, Duke of York or George, Duke of Clarence. From what I can remember, neither of the standard biographies (Johnson for York, Hicks for Clarence) refer to them in this way. Nor do the biographers of Henry VI (Wolffe, Griffiths) or Edward IV (Ross) - but I don't have the books to hand at present to confirm this. However, it seems to be quite common in Wikipedia to refer to the English aristocracy of the middle ages as though they had a surname in the modern sense.

Thewiltog 12:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an explanation of the use of the name Plantagenet: [2]

--ScottyFLL 23:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Verification of Gloucester Spouse Needed

I think the following statement is incorrect: Richard Plantagenet, 1st Duke of Gloucester, who had married the widowed Anne Neville. I think Richard was her first marriage. There is a famous story about Clarence's attempted kidnapping of her and Richard's rescue. I will check this in Ross' Edward IV if I get a chance. Sarahbv17 (talk) 01:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]