Talk:Nazi concentration camp badge

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Pink inverted triangle superimposed upon a yellow triangle, making the Star of David - a homosexual Jew.

This is the first time I hear about this "double marking". Any refs where this came from? Just wondering, what if a Jew was a criminal, he would wear a yellow-green star? What if a Jew + criminal + homosexual? And what if it was a anti-social woman? I am not turning this into a joke, just trying to understand the classification. Humus sapiens 03:53, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)

This is drawn from a poster created to assist the camp personnel in identifying prisoners. There is a small graphic of the poster here and an original poster (from one of the camps) is in the Holocaust Museum in DC. --Etoile 17:54, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

In fact, there were many markings, a prisoner would have at least two, and possibly more than six:

**Form and Color of Markings of Camp Inmates in the Concentration Camps**
	Political	Habitual Criminals	Emigrants	Bible Students	Gay males	Vagrants
Basic colors	Red triangle	Green triangle	Blue triangle	Purple triangle
Markings for Repeaters	Red bar above triangle	Green bar above triangle	Blue bar above triangle	Purple bar above triangle	Pink bar above triangle	Black bar above triangle
Inmates of Penal Battalions	Circled black circle under red triangle	Circled black circle under green triangle	Circled black circle under blue triangle	Circled black circle under purple triangle	Circled black circle under pink triangle	Circled black circle under black triangle
Markings for Jews	Red triangle over uninverted yellow triangle	Green triangle over yellow triangle	Blue triangle over yellow triangle	Purple triangle over yellow triangle	Pink triangle over yellow triangle	Black triangle over yellow triangle
Special Markings	Male Race Defiler: Thick outline of black triangle over uinverted yellow triangle	Female Race Defiler: Univerted yellow triangle over black triangle	Escape Suspect: A circled red circle under the appropriate star	Inmate Number: A white rectangle with serial number	Applicable marks were worn in descending order as follows: Inmate Number, Repeater Bar, Triangle or Star, Member of Penal Battalion, Escape Suspect
Special Markings	Pole: "P" on a red triangle	Czech: "T" on a red triangle	Member of the Armed Forces: Univerted red triangle	Special Inmate: Brown arm band

I'd appreciate it if someone familiar with graphics could replace the text of the table with pictures, where appropriate.

Hyacinth

I've just put the table into the article. Excellent work! - David Gerard 12:50, Jan 31, 2004 (UTC)

I second that, the article turns really encyclopedic resource. Since the majority of it isn't about inverted triangles anymore, should it be renamed? Nazi death camp/inmate/prisoner badge? Humus sapiens 20:20, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I propose: Nazi concentration camp inmate markings. Hyacinth

Jewish Jehovah's Witness

A purple triangle over a yellow one means someone is both a Jew and a Jehovah's Witness? Is that actually possible? -- Kimiko 23:21, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Nazis defined "Jewishness" on the basis of ancestry. If you had a Jewish grandparent, you were a Jew. Didn't matter to them if you were also a Christian. - Nunh-huh 23:26, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Maybe that should be noted somewhere on the page then, that "Jew" means "of Jewish descent" and not necessarily "practicing Judaism". -- Kimiko 23:59, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Or there should be a page on "Nazi definition of a Jew", it gets complicated and they actually had terms like "Mischling" based on the # of grandparents who were Jews, and if those Jews were practicing or part of the "Jewish Community", etc. The definition was coded under law in 1940. Or if one were married to a Jew. Probably too complicated to put on this page. -- Nunh-huh 00:18, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Who is a Jew? explains it pretty well. Joffeloff 20:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Der "Lila Winkel" als Kennzeichnung in den Konzentrationslagern, galt für alle religiösen inhaftierten Gefangenen. Diese wurden unter der Bezeichnung "Bibelforscher" geführt. Darunter befanden sich nicht nur die "Zeugen Jehovas", sondern auch die "Freien Bibelforscher", die "Quäker" und viele der "Siebenten-Tags-Adventisten". Diese Tatsache sollte seitens der Zeugen nicht übersehen werden. Hier gibt es einfach keinen Absolutheitsanspruch. --Bibelforscher 16:58, 14.Oct 2005 (CEST)

One source of mine ("Le dossier juif", don't remember the exact book number) implied that yellow and purple was used for rabbis (sorry for the French) : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers/insignes.jpg Anyone knows what's up with that? Slereah 17:25, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Concentration Camp Markings

I must commend the graphics and the discussion. In 1994, I visited both Auschwitz and neighboring Auschwitz II (Birkenau), and I found the explanation of the marking system there to be cursory.

Orlando Gotay, San Juan, Puerto Rico

Special inmates

What qualified a concentration camp inmate for "special" status? [[User:DO'Neil|DO'Иeil]] 11:00, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

Special Markings

Under special markings .. I'm not clear what "race defiler" actually means ... --Azkar 15:22, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This generally referred to Aryan women who knowingly had children by a non-Aryan man. - Etoile 17:45, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Could a note be added about the definaition of a race defiler like the Jehovah's Witness/Jew triangle?--Thecosmos 02:29, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I was confused by the phrase "Race Defiler" as well. The article seemed to suggest that it refered to someone who had mated with a "lesser race". A description that is more clear would be nice. --207.81.225.190 07:47, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Minor edit: removed obsolete link

Removed the internal link to "Jasenovac concentration camp marks," which seems to have been removed from the Jasenovac article.

Thecosmos, I'll also include the definition of "race defiler" in the appropriate section.

--Justin.eiler 20:54, 15 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Justin!--Thecosmos 03:55, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

Repeater Bar

Somebody should explain what a repeat bar is as it is incomprehensible in the article!

Assuming that the repeater bar is for those people that repeated the designated offense, how could somebody be a repeating Jehovah's Witness? (I am not trying to be difficult, I just fail to understand that.)--Thecosmos 22:07, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

I believe the repeater bars are actually only applicable for repeatable offenses: they are, in the graphic, used with all the major badges by way of example, rather than an actual category. However, I may be wrong on that.... --Justin.eiler 04:36, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The repeaters for all categories show up in the original German poster as well, so either people at the concentration camp were as confused as we about "repeating Jehovah's Witnesses" &c, or they actually do mean something. Mang 03:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Emigrants"?

The blue triangle "emigrants" category isn't discussed, but is in the table. What does it mean? A2Kafir 01:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Brown Triangle

I am surprised that the Brown Triangle isn't listed. This was the common (as well as Black) Triangle worn by the Roma. There are various links through Google where one could read about this and even find orginal Nazi chart listings showing the brown triangle. Could someone please fix this? I think it is only fair to include this as it is historic fact. In later years, the Roma were made to stop wearing the Black Traigle and were forced to Start wearing the Brown. I would remedy this, but I do not have the capability - Paint Shop is not my friend.

Here are some links/sources confirming this fact:

Thank you. I hope someone can clarify this. ExRat 05:54, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pink Triangle

The Pink Triangle was not only used for homosexuals. It was applied to any who broke paragraphs 174, 175 and 176 of the penal code. 175 applied to homosexuals, and 175b sex with animals. 174 applied to incest and other sexual offences with dependents, while 176 covered pedophilia. Ref: http://www.pink-triangle.org

So a Pink triangle was essentially for sexual offences in general rather than just homosexuals.

In line with this, Bibel-forscher is most certainly not the same as "Jehovah's witness". Also, political enemies could be more accurately put as political prisoners. Ilija Pavlic 15:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Armed Forces

Looking for a fuller explanation of the upright red triangle. Is 'Armed Forces' the same as POW? Or some offence (or imagined offence) by someone withing the German Armed Forces? T L Miles 17:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

http://ddickerson.igc.org/dachau-badges.html gives this as "Wermacht Prisoners". If someone can confirm this, perhaps it should be clarified on the main page. Also there seems to be discussion of differences between camps. That this was a local, not a universal system, might be noted (if confirmed). T L Miles 17:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Republican Spaniards?

Just out of curiousity, how did Republican Spaniards end up in Nazi concentration camps? Even though Germany was involved in a minor role during the Spanish Civil War, it would be odd that they would capture Spanish citizens. Was it Spanish volunteers in the French Resistance?

I know Nationalist Spaniards fought on the side of the Axis in the Azul Division. They wouldn't be Republicans though.

I know Franco jailed many Republicans after the civil war.

Anyway, just curious. Thanks.

Tens of thousands of republicans fled over the French border when Barcelona was captured by the Fascists, essentially ending the Civil War. Those trapped in the Spanish State often ended up in Franco's 'work' camps and prisons, so many remained in France (along with anti-fascist refugees from across Europe) when the Germans invaded in 1940. Many ended up in labor and death camps (leftists were rounded up even before ethnic and cultural victims), others went underground and either fled Europe, hid, or joined the resistance, from which they re-appeared in 1944.

See Wikis for Spanish Civil War and French Resistance, T L Miles 15:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Badge Coding System - Black Triangle - birth control

There is a request under the heading "Badge Coding System" for a citation for the "Black Triangle" being worn for the offense of "birth control".

I do not have the editing skills to do the citation myself; however I can give you a citation from the man himself.

Adolf Hitler railed at some length against birth control in "MEIN KAMPF" Vol. I, Chapter IV: MUNICH (James Murphy, 1939 translation).

His argument was essentially that while promoting the birth of as many children as possible would allow 'natural selection' to cull the weak and leave only the strongest to populate Germany; as opposed to the use of birth control resulting in fewer children whose lives were then preserved whether deserving of survival or not.

Hitler did not treat this so much a moral issue as a practical one. He was interested in developing the most viable possible children, who could be molded through minimal education and maximum physical training, into a generation who could retake Germany's territorial losses in World War I and thus avenge his perceived inequities in the Treaty of Versailles (Where Germany lost a large portion of its territory and nearly all its prestige).

Heinrich Himmler found the answer to this in the ‘Lebensborn’ program, to promote the procreation of racially pure Aryan children to populate and continue the Third Reich in the future.

Hitler also comments at length about the need for "pure" Aryans to procreate in order to save "the race" as well as his ideas for limiting the undesirable, to his theories, reproduction of races he considers inferior, the mentally ill, etc. in "MEIN KAMPF" Vol. II, Chapter II: THE STATE (James Murphy, 1939 translation)

If someone could reduce this to the proper form and add it to the page I would greatly appreciate it. -Bonacon Lupinus —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.245.174.178 (talk) 07:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Wikipedia icon contradicts scanned page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kennzeichen_f%C3%BCr_Schutzh%C3%A4ftlinge_in_den_Konzentrationslagern.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Female_race_defiler.svg

Can someone "spin" the 'Female Race Defiler' icon? AKismet 07:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've just uploaded a new image, which is rotated for 180 degrees. --Biblbroks 's talk 17:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup

I'm not sure whether this is an article or a list - it seems like both merged into one. It lacks proper in-text references and the sources and external links make the whole thing difficult.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 14:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Purple triangle were not just for witnesses.

They were used for other groups too. In fact this need to be brought in line with the purple triangle article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.33.103.23 (talk) 02:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dates

It might help the article if it had dates for when the standardization for the classifications were made. --Trakon 22:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Black triangles - lesbians

There hasn't been any evidence for lesbians to be imprisoned in concentration camps due to their sexual orientation. The archive of the memorial site of Ravensbrück has evidence of four women with an additional remark of being lesbians: two of them been persecuted for political reasons, two for being jewish. One of the jewish inmates was given a black triangle due to sexual contacts with non-jewish persons as Claudia Schoppmann published. ref: Claudia Schoppmann: Nationalsozialistische Sexualpolitik und weibliche Homosexualität. (Dissertation, FU Berlin, 1990.) Centaurus, Pfaffenweiler 1991 (revisited 2nd edition 1997). ISBN 3-89085-538-5</ref> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.62.28 (talk) 19:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiction: N - Holland or Norway?

The caption of the picture states N stands for Dutch, while the article says it stands for Norwegian. 87.193.248.234 (talk) 14:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC) According to former Dutch prisoners they had to carry a triangle with the letter H (= Holland), so, probably the N stood for Norway. Robvhoorn (talk) 12:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]