Talk:2008 Nord-Kivu campaign

Name

Battle of Goma is a redlink. Have there been any other Battles of Goma? If not, it should be moved to Battle of Goma; after all, Battle of Gettysburg and Battle of Jutland don't include the year. Nyttend (talk) 12:14, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

of course, no need for disambiguation--TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:55, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

MONUC countries

Which countries have soldiers in the area?--TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:14, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

See here. --lomis (talk) 20:56, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, you can also see on that page the upstanding nature by which the indians/pakis are 'peacekeeping'. Good for nothing curry munchers? No, I didn't say that, your brain just did!58.107.179.146 (talk) 06:19, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Another massacre?

Hopefully that won't be another genocide of Tutsi as was seen in Rwanda (cf. Rwandan Genocide, Roméo Dallaire, etc.) CielProfond (talk) 11:00, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I think you are misunderstanding the conflict. The country was absolutely wrecked by fighting between every imaginable group in the first and second Congo wars and now the Tutsi government of Rwanda feels that the ceasefire did not fully protect the Tutsis in the Congo so they are funding Nkunda who is the protector of the Tutsis. Nkunda has decided that since the government isn't going to help him protect the Tutsis in the still disputed Eastern areas of the Congo that he is going to turn on the government and is threatening to destabilize the fragile stability of the region. If neighboring countries do what they did in the 1998 Congo wars they will decide to take advantage of this turmoil by plundering Congo's vast mineral resources like they did in 1998 leaving 5.4 million dead and only withdrawing under heavy U.N. pressure. The Tutsis are now deciding that they feel like destabilizing the region and taking control themselves is the best course of action, whether this is for security reasons (seems unlikely) or for economic reasons (more likely) nobody is completely sure. However to be clear this about much more than a Tutsi genocide possibility. I suggest for anybody who is going to edit this article to be fully educated on the previous Congo civil wars. PlasticJesus341 (talk) 02:44, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your explanations, PlasticJesus341. Indeed, as I do not know anything about the different tensions that exist in that part of the world, I did not write anything in the main article page, but wrote it here instead. I never implied or wanted to imply that Tutsi people were "angels" or not or deserved to be helped/protected or not; just that there are always two sides to every story, and that I wished to know them both. While I would understand the Tutsi motivation to basically "avenge" what was done to them in Rwanda, I do not agree with any taking over they might try, if it is to be done by force and not peaceful negotiations. Again, thank you PlasticJesus341, and peace to all. CielProfond (talk) 03:40, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Don't take it personally man I wasn't aiming any specific comments at you...relax I didn't mean to imply that you were uninformed, I am sorry if it came off kind of harsh. PlasticJesus341 (talk) 19:51, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to see documented evidence of the Rwandan government providing support to any of the rebel groups currently involved in conflict in Northern and/or Southern Kivu. I'm seeing and hearing a lot of claims and concerns but no real evidence.NeedEvidence (talk) 00:51, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

No offense taken, PlasticJesus341, it didn't sound harsh at all. I know that I am uninformed! ;) CielProfond (talk) 01:01, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Umm you need evidence, I cited a prominent newspaper but obviously that wasn't enough, go check out this interview http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/27/kambale_musavuli_on_the_forgotten_war and find that financial times link which you or someone else wantonly deleted. Everyone agrees that the U.S has some huge leverage in this issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PlasticJesus341 (talk • contribs) 05:54, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Deaths

Has any of this "heavy fighting" resulted in deaths? If so this information should be included to the article Ijanderson (talk) 12:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

It obviously has resulted in deaths, but news reporters are having a hard time talking to U.N troops who are in heavy fighting right now, so probably in the next few days information will be gathered.

Well, 45000 die a month; however, those are civilian casualties. We don't have figures on UN and CNDP deaths yet. Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP! :)} 04:59, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Peacekeepers fleeing?

This Indian media outlet reports that an Uruguayan battalion fled the region and Senegalese troops also refused to deploy. Any confirmations? Joshdboz (talk) 02:41, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

As far as the UN says the Uruguayan Battalion is still deployed the same with the Senegalese troops at least according to what the UN Spokesperson to the Secretary General and Montevideo says. Uruguayan source

But to be honest they're being pushed back and forth by Rwandan artillery fire [rockets] and armored tanks. Both sources say "most of them[Uruguayan]are still deployed north of Goma " ...most :( ...--XChile (talk) 22:38, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

"Freedom Fighter"/"terrorist", etc

See Wikipedia:TERRORIST#Extremist.2C_terrorist_or_freedom_fighter.3F, which reads, in part:

the term "freedom fighters" is typically applied to those whose cause is being supported. These words are inherently non-neutral, and so they should never be used as labels in the unqualified narrative voice of the article.

These terms should not be re-inserted into the article. If they are, they will be removed, and users adding these POV terms face sanction up to, and including, blocks.

Also note: this page is for discussion on the improvement of this article, not for discussion of the topic in general, or the rights and wrongs of the participants. T L Miles (talk) 02:07, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

New name

The new name fits more with the present situation on the ground. Battles occurred more or less across eastern Nord-Kivu, without having affected directly Goma as of yet. Also, it's not a single battle, as we can see from the content of the article. Another good name would be 2008 rebel offensive in DR Congo --TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Um, I think this is a good idea, and I'm not trying to be difficult, but you should really go with the second choice name. It's not "Fall" in Central Africa, or really anywhere outside the temperate latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere. In fact, for the southern temperate zones, it's spring. And "Fall" tends to be an Americanism of the more standard Autumn anyway. 2008 rebel offensive in DR Congo or even more neutral 2008 Nord-Kivu fighting are more descriptive, accurate, and portable. Sorry to be a nag. T L Miles (talk) 17:30, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

T L Miles is right. Nord-Kivu fall fighting of 2008 is not good at all. I think 2008 Nord-Kivu fighting would be the best option. Offliner (talk) 23:26, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

U.S Support??

I find it odd in the beginning of the article its says Rwanda being is supported by the Americans when the article says it supports both governments especially when i go to the source its says nothing about such."The post-ceasefire environment remained tense, as it was worried that other factions, such as Tutsi-led and U.S supported Rwanda," Can someone elaborate or it will be changed --XChile (talk) 15:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Remove footnote 30

HI

The journalists referred to in the allAfrica report [1]were later found hiding out in a MONUC base according to a JED report [2]. I covered the story for the CPJ [3] --Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 19:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

How does that tie to removing the footnote? 205.200.18.71 (talk) 10:16, 20 November 2008 (UTC)