Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rocketry

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Rocketry

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Rocketry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of rocketry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.RocketryWikipedia:WikiProject RocketryTemplate:WikiProject RocketryRocketry articles

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Aviation

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Military history

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Physics

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Archives

Archive 0 (2003-2004)
Archive 1 (2005-2007)

Redo this project?

Is this still an inactive project? I'm wondering if there is enough interest to have this project re-done as a aviation project task force. To take a sampling of articles that link to {{Infobox Missile}}, V-2 rocket and AGM-65 Maverick are currently tagged under the Military history project (just like (B-17 Flying Fortress). Perhaps is should be a shared task force with them, just like the Military aviation task force. Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 19:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that if we have to move this to a task force, it would be better to remain as part of WP:SPACE. Perhaps some form of sharing would be a good idea, though, with WP:SPACE being the main parent. --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 13:43, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that WP:AVIATION would also be a likely parent project... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.55.85.177 (talk) 05:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rocket name cleanup

I have proposed a large number of moves and other changes to clean up the mess that is caused by the lack of any accepted disambiguation standard for rocket articles. The proposal is located at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rocketry/Titles --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 08:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rocket name cleanup poll

User:GW Simulations has implemented a poll at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rocketry/Titles/Poll concerning GW's rename proposal found at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rocketry/Titles 70.55.203.112 (talk) 12:43, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Naming conventions

Does anyone have any objection if I bring the "Naming conventions" section in line with the conclusion of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rocketry/Titles? --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 17:36, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It sure looks like this went forward without complaint. All the moves listed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rocketry/Titles/Poll#Implementation seem to have been un-contested. Hurray! (sdsds - talk) 04:08, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Total impulse

I'm wondering why the articles on rocket stages (and to a lesser extent the articles on entire rocket vehicles) so rarely describe the "total impulse" provided by the stage(s). In model rocketry everyone classifies motors using this specification, i.e. by the Newton-seconds the motor provides (or by the equivalent scale starting with the Estes "A" engines). Isn't total impulse the most fundamental spec allowing comparison of "apples to apples"? (sdsds - talk) 04:13, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yes and no. It really doesn't tell you much in by itself, in isolation, unless you know something about the mass, mass ratio, exhaust velocity, or burning time. For model rocket motors (or probably larger solid motors) it makes some sense in suggesting an appropriate application. Thrust, mass ratio, and exhaust velocity all together would seem to be a 3-parameter set that give a rough indication of applicability, but there must be other 3-parameter sets, and total impulse might be a good parameter in some.

Anybody know any standard sets? Another possibility would be the maximum total energy that a stage or motor could give to a payload (? "Ideal energy"??). If the payload (which could be upper stages) is too heavy, the energy would be zero (little or no movement), and if the payload is too light it would also be zero (all the energy goes into the empty stage structure). So the most useful application would be somewhere near the payload mass that gets the most energy out of the stage, which ought to be a good fraction of the total energy in the propellants, near the optimum load. Wwheaton (talk) 04:40, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ratings

I think a good way to bring some activity back into this project would be to implement a rating system. Does anyone have any comments or objections? --G W… 10:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done - I've added a quality rating system. I have also proposed an importance system. --G W… 20:08, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- I'm going to be bold and start assessing on both scales. I'd usually leave it a bit longer, but since the project is fairly inactive, there have been no objections, and it does not directly affect the content of the articles, I think it would be better to crack on with it. We can always refine it later if needs be. --G W… 21:22, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WPSpace

Since the reorganisation, this project has been, for a significant part, operating outside of the scope of WPSpace. I am therefore proposing that it be reclassified as an independent project rather than a subproject of WPSpace. It would continue to operate as an associated project. --G W… 22:05, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Rocketry is only sometimes related to space, and in those cases we have WikiProject Spaceflight as the WPSpace sub-project. (sdsds - talk) 22:36, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support most rockets are military weapons, most rockets function in the air. Either of which would mean falling under WP:MILHIST or WP:AVIATION more than WP:SPACE. 76.66.193.69 (talk) 01:53, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support and Suggestion - Concur wth 76..69. As a suggestion, you might approach WPAVIATION about joining it as a daughter project. WPAVIATION could be renamed WPAEROSPACE to emphasize a scope broader than just aviation. Many of the comapnies that WPAIRCCRAFT covers have spcecraft/rocket divisions. Just a thought. - BillCJ (talk) 17:02, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- That might be better as a new project, with aviation as a child. --G W… 09:36, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If the project does not fall within a parent project's scope, then I agree that you may need to relook the parentage. However, I feel that a WP:Aerospace would be too broad a scope to be effective. The effort to create a scope and then unify a larger and growing group of projects with their specialized datasets and templates will waste more effort than it deserves and detract from growing the articles that such an endeavor is purported to represent. Until the projects mentioned actually show an increasing amount of collaboration and cooperation that might need managing in those areas where their scope and focus overlap, creating a superproject to coordinate such nonexistent activity would be superfluous. --Born2flie (talk) 13:23, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I think WP:Rocketry would fit well under WP:Aviation/Aerospace if that's what this project wnats that. Since WP:Aviation seems to be mostly an umbrella group now, renaming to WP:Aerospace would be fine with me. -Fnlayson (talk) 17:03, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bottom importance

I think this project should add the {{Bottom-importance}} level to importance assessment. 76.66.193.69 (talk) 01:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done --G W… 18:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Country of origin

The Question: Russia have produced upper stage for GSLV. Should we list Russia alongside with India as a country of origin of GSLV? Russia have produced upper stage for Zenith 3SL. Should we list Russia alongside with Ukraine as a country of origin of Zenith 3SL? Russia will produce first stages of KSLV. Should we list Russia as a KSLV country of origin alongside with S. Korea? And to somewhat bigger scope - Russia have produced first stage main engines for Atlas III and Atlas V. Should we list Russia as a country of origin of Atlas III and Atlas V alongside with US? If the rocket have foreign components inside it - should countries who produced that components be listed as a country of origin of a rocket? Or we should list just a countries who actually in charge of the project? TestPilot^{talk to me!} 00:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think that we should be more general with what we ask. Should the nationalities of manufacturers of individual stages and/or engines be listed as one of that rocket's countries of origin? --G W… 07:33, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I thinks I asked pretty much same question, but gave major examples of specific articles that would be affected by answering it. It give potential commenter context of the question. TestPilot^{talk to me!} 04:18, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Copied from my talk page

For KSLV would be S. Korea. Dosent matter who produce first stage. Same apply for GSLV. In latter case it would be India(there was plans to get upper stage from abroad- but canceled now). TestPilot^{talk to me!} 01:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{fact}} --G W… 01:28, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

With such logic you should start editing country of origin in GSLV article. Third stage for it was actually made in Russia. But that make no sense. Sure, if you would find a way to introduce Russia into country of origin of GSLV(and I will object it), then I guess same edit could be introduced to Zenith article. TestPilot^{talk to me!} 01:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And don't forget to add Russia as country of origins for Atlas III and Atlas V. First stage engine is mach more sophisticated and expansive piece then third stage. TestPilot^{talk to me!} 01:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am not concerned about first stage engines, however if an entire stage is produced in a country, that country should be listed. There is a variant of the GSLV with an Indian upper stage. By your logic, KSLV should be listed as all-Russian. --G W… 07:54, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

India is in charge of GSLV. So GSLV is an Indian rocket. Korea is in charge of KSLV. So KSLV is a Korean rocket. United States is in charge of Atlases. So Atlas III and V are American rockets. Ukraine is in charge of Zenith 2 and 3SL. So they are Ukrainian rockets. All this rockets use foreign components. And again, if you think that one special component make rocket belong to another country... Then in case of upper stage you should add Russia as a country of origin of GSLV article. TestPilot^{talk to me!} 20:54, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. I'm going to move this discussion to WT:ROCKETRY to allow a wider discussion on the subject. --G W… 21:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further discussion

I feel that it would be a good idea to determine how we handle this issue across all articles, so I have moved the discussion here. The original comments (as posted above) can be seen on my talk page. --G W… 21:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]