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An editor has asked for a deletion review of Timothy D. Naegele. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedy-deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. naegele 09:29, 9 February 2009
Timecheck
18:51, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Mediation for Ferrylodge
Hiya KC. Ferrylodge has agreed to mediation with me (you are the other party), and I'd like to restructure the bans in place vis-a-vis the Sarah Palin article. He's agreed to switching the article ban to indef (rather than the arbitrary "week"), and I'd like to rescind the ban on the talk page. At least some of the editors have expressed dissatisfaction and/or confusion about the talk page part of the ban, and I think it would be a case of good wheel greasing to rescind it. Are you comfortable to oblige? --SB_Johnny | talk19:05, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I'm more than willing to rescind my one-week article ban for your indef article ban, if it works for you and it works for Ferrylodge and it (hopefully) will remove concerns about the "wrong admin". I'm unclear on what you think there would be left to "mediate" between us at that point. KillerChihuahua?!?19:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I clearly should have read this more carefully. Your email to me said "Fl has agreed to mediation, and is willing to accept an indef ban on the article. " and did not mention rescinding the talk page ban, I thought you were transferring it to you rather than from me. I missed your addition of rescinding the talk page ban in the post above. I've agreed now, my error in not reading your post more carefully, but do note it was his tendentious arguing to insert an OR synth into the article, which dsitracted from and derailed the discussion regarding the core content dispute. I expect him to drop that utterly; and focus on the core dispute and cease arguing for non-supported trivial edits regarding funding. KillerChihuahua?!?19:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding from this discussion is that SB Johnny will be using full mediating skills to ensure that no further talk page disruption occurs. If Ferrylodge makes any further talk page posts suggesting deviations or disruption of process, I'd archive them promptly and await resolution of the issues under constructive discussion before allowing any discussion. Certainly hope that won't be necessary . . dave souza, talk19:38, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would have more confidence in this if Ferrylodge had made some kind of commitment not to disrupt the mediation in progress by introducing other conflict, but if SBJohnny wants to move straight to rescind I trust he will ensure such problems are no longer an issue. KillerChihuahua?!?19:41, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In an east village bar last night. And a very hot, absurd example of a new russian (famously described by P.J. O'rourke as a breed that "looks like they stripped naked, slathered themselves in Elmers glue, and then ran through a versace store and bought whatever stuck.") walks in with two pooches (a pomeranian and a mixed -- dachsund and something else -- the pooches smelled of the same shampoo as a very rich upper east side girlfriend of mine used). She fusses over the dogs, gets them on a couch, and proceeds to attend to the unloved pool table by herself. Girl could shoot (went through 2 racks with only 4 misses). Dog lover that I am, i amble over to deal with the pooches (one a puppy who was misbehaving). Girl comes over between shots to coo at the lapdogs and jaw at me. I spend 10 minutes -- then give up when she won't let me work with the dogs and help them get over their separation anxiety (as soon as i had them focusing on me she sprinted over). I went back to my friends. A new york hipster (a Tyson Beckford look-a-like, wouldn't be surprise if he was a model himself) who had been watching comes over to our table on the way to the bar. "How long did it take you to figure out she was crazy?" "Oh, no," I said. "I knew she was crazy the moment she walked in. I just really have a thing for dogs." My friends and Tyson erupt in incredulous laughter. But true none-the-less. Consider this the bali ultimate barnstar of good sense.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:45, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh wow. I don't watch TV and had no idea who Tyson Beckford was. Dang... he's easy on the eyes. So much for my good sense; I'm distracted by the pretty man. *grin* Thanks for the story, Bali. Good dogs are always better than crazy bitches, of course. KillerChihuahua?!?22:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. This comment works on many levels. But had no one else to tell this mildly amusing dog tale too. Tyson? I'm not a woman and I'm not gay. But he's disgustingly beautiful. I hate him. (in all honesty, the disruptive puppy was male and not yet snipped.)Bali ultimate (talk) 23:11, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you have time
Hi puppy, I've noticed you've been quite busy but if you have the time to read this article which is short The talk page too might be of interest for an overall idea of things. This article was up for deletion twice. I voted to delete but an editor said he could write a good WP:BLP from sources that are no longer available on the net by using the information from the subject of the article. The editor started to but apparently s/he has left the project before finishing. The subject of the article is doing a heavy push to get editors to improve the article as can be seen at the talk page and his users talk. Sorry, babbling a bit here, but what I would like to ask you to do is read up on this situation and give your opinions if possible. I don't know how to use sources that are not available on the net by using the subjects listing of the information on his facebook page. I was interested in seeing how to do this when User:Sarcasticidealist said he would do it. Others have attempted to improve the article the best they could but now I see no real WP:Notability in this article along with other policy problems. Anyways, if you have the time and/or interest, I would really appreciate any input you would have. Thank you for your time, --CrohnieGalTalk 11:04, 4 April 2009 (UTC) PS: I just noticed that you had already been to this article and talk page, sorry for missing and/or forgetting this. I would still like to hear your input since things have changed since your last involvement, thanks. --CrohnieGalTalk11:04, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Arrgh. Well, I think he's in the Local Character category, which makes him NN so far as I'm concerned but he got enough press to satisfy the notability rules-lawyers. My advice: trim what you can, source what you can from the newspaper articles he has online, and for heaven's sake get rid of the peacock phrasing. Good luck and let me know if there is anything else I can do for you - I honestly think that article is vanity fluff, but its survived a couple of Afds so I'm outnumbered. KillerChihuahua?!?19:36, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your opinions which I happen to agree with. I've tried to be patient to see what User:Sarcasticidealist was going to do with the article since I think that people voted to keep because this excellent editor was going to do a rewrite. Now that he's left the project, at least last I saw, I don't see anyone stepping in to take care of the article anymore. I know that there has been some good faith attempts to work the article but Sarcasticidealist apparently got some of the refs via snail mail or email. I think maybe with a little more time passing another attempt might be appropriate to delete it if no editors can source it for notability. I really don't see the notability in all of this which is what I have been hoping a rewrite would show. I haven't done anything mainly because of the pushing going on at the talk page and attempts by others have not been well received. How long of a time should pass before another attempt to have it deleted should happen? Thanks --CrohnieGalTalk14:37, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Minimum of three months; six is better, twelve better still. Seriously, this may be hard to deal with, but realize that its a low-traffic article, and if its not blatantly bad then Wikipedia is not harmed much by its existence. So set a calendar reminder and go forth and edit other articles for a bit. This will give you distance, perspective, and hopefully prevent ulcers and stress. It will have the added benefit of your time being spent improving other articles rather than imitating Sisyphus, too, which is all to the good. You may wish to keep it on your watchlist on the off chance that someone else will either a) Have the fortitude and skills to try to fix it, or b) re-nominate it for Afd. If you do wish to try to follow in SI's footsteps, I can only suggest you email him and ask about his sources. If he doesn't answer, try emailing the primary. Hope this helps, dear. KillerChihuahua?!?15:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think I'll just keep it watched and continue on with other areas that I do. I'd really love to see how an article is written without access to the refs on the net, oh well maybe another time. :) Thanks for your patience with me, --CrohnieGalTalk16:07, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
BTW...thanks for the parenting at the Talk:Sarah Palin page...sometimes we act like a bunch of rowdy school kids. In fact, a new editor has entered the school yard and insists on having his way. At least 5 reverts about the same topic....Levi Johnson. He also is insisting on arrest records of a Sarah relative. Im sure both sides of the aisle agree on keeping it out.--Buster7 (talk) 22:52, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ye gods, can we be more gossipy and trivial? FYI, my email is enabled. It may be faster to email me, if only to say Sarah Palin, see your talk page. KillerChihuahua?!?19:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Y'all are just trying to suppress objective data and the best strategy you can come up with is go after the term "baby daddy" a recognized term in Wikipedia, redirecting to "father" long before my first use of the colloquial former term. I don't know why you have a beef with me for editing the Sarah Palin entry. Maybe where your real problem lies is with Wikipedia's "father" entry and various redirects to it? Maybe you should edit that page rather than monitor the Sarah Palin page to prevent the addition of legitimate information on Levi Johnston and even closer members of the Palin family. After all, a sitting governor of a US state, Sarah Palin issued a formal press release on Johnston's Tyra Banks interview. Doesn't a sitting governor's press release make this relevant? And is it really 5 reverts, as you claim, when I continually added new sources such as AP and UPI, as well as referenced the governor's own statements on Johnston, to bolster my additions, when, no matter how I posted them, they were deleted anyway? So the real question is, why can national news about Johnston and the governor's sister-in-law, arrested in the commission of burglary with the niece of a sitting governor with her in the commission of the crime, not be relevant when the governor comments on them with releases from her tax payer funded office? I think maybe what we've got is a coordinated effort to suppress information.Ozarkhighlands (talk) 03:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know Puppy doesn't like content disputes on her talk page, but a quick correction to your claim - there were no press releases, official or otherwise, from the governor's office. Meg Stapleton, a spokesperson for SarahPAC, made a brief e-mail statement on behalf of the Palin family, which I interpreted to be from Bristol Palin, not the Governor. Kellyhi!12:32, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that makes perfect sense. It cannot possibly be an honest disagreement about the relevance of this material to an encyclopedic biography. I have no doubt your insistence on the term "baby daddy" would be mirrored if we were working on Encyclopedia Brittanica or another such serious respected reference work. This is clearly an effort to suppress information, coordinated by people who are known to work in lockstep, like User:KillerChihuahua and User:Kelly. Anyone who is incapable of spending 3 seconds Googling "Levi Johnston" or "Palin baby daddy" will be unfairly deprived of their Constitutional right to the personal details of these two private figures. Keep up the good work and thorough research. MastCellTalk05:36, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Following my initial modification to entry and the questions that arose about the term "baby daddy," I immediately revised the information I had added to say "baby's father." That, and each and every other revision was deleted, no matter how many references bolstered the new information, and without any regard for my responsiveness to comments on terminology. This stopped being about "baby daddy" by the second revision, when I made the change to "baby's father." So why was everything deleted since then too? And as a point of order, KillerChihuahua made the first entry on this page about me. I should get a chance to respond.Ozarkhighlands (talk) 20:08, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
edit conflict on my page, here's the list, along with when I reported the violation
Reverse chronological order
(times are listed in whatever format I have set to view them, if yours are set for different times the numbers may be off, but the chronology is the same)
---> Esasus says that he has contacted all voters 18:00, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Esasus (Re: Dan Schlund
---> Contacting of the no voters:
17:48, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:ThuranX (Dan Schlund)
17:47, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Darth Mike (Dan Schlund)
17:44, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Reyk (Dan Schlund)
17:43, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:THF (Dan Schlund)
17:42, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Smooth0707 (→Dan Schlund - Jet Pack)
17:40, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Crusio (Dan Schlund)
-->Arcayne posts to his talk page asking if he contacted the delete voters (instead of just looking himself to see he hadn't - probably an attempt to tip him off to correct his mistake) 16:47, April 5, 2009
--> I point out what he was doing at 16:10, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
---> Initial round of notifications:
09:52, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Ricky81682 (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:50, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Arcayne (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:49, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Lawrencekhoo (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:48, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Shunpiker (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:48, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Artw (→Dan Schlund: new section)]
09:47, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Collect (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:47, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Untick (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:46, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Colonel Warden (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:45, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:45, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:MikeWazowski (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:44, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:LinguistAtLarge (→Dan Schlund: new section)
09:43, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Umbralcorax (→Dan Schlund: new section)]
09:42, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Mr Beale (→Dan Schlund: new section)]
09:40, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Dean Wormer (→Dan Schlund: new section)]
09:39, April 5, 2009 (hist) (diff) User talk:Fordan (→Dan Schlund: new section)]
Yes, I just finished myse4lf. You're right that he canvassed; probably right that he should have been blocked, but of course now he has corrected his error. I posted the minute I saw your note on your page; I am sorry I did not see it when you posted it. Other than to note that Esasus is somewhat unethical but can learn the rules, there is little I can do at this time. However, it is at least documented clearly now. We don't block punitively, you know - at least, that's the idea, and I strive always to keep to it (I know your experience has been different, and I am sorry for that). KillerChihuahua?!?19:47, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the thought. I'm getting used to the punitive blocks and the attempts of people to try to get me blocked for purely personal reasons. Once I figured out that getting upset about it was exactly what they wanted I just chalked it up to an unfortunate side effect of editing here. It'd be a shame if they wikilawyer their way into a victory, though, which is why I agreed to a 1RR prohibition... it'll be harder to get caught up in the heat of things if I have to think about every single revert. DreamGuy (talk) 20:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You and Giano should get together for a few drinks sometime and commiserate. :-( Your approach is wise; you could work a bit more on your phrasing at times - your "if an admin had been on top of things" does read like all the admins were lying down on the job; kindof accusatory and I'm sure they just didn't see your notice. KillerChihuahua?!?20:08, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, sure, most admins don't just look at my talk page randomly to see what's what on reports of bad behavior, but the ones who popped by at the exact same time because of the block/unblock notice/arguing about how I deserve my blocks could have taken a look. It's not like the section header was ambiguously worded or too small/far away to see. :shrugs: DreamGuy (talk) 20:39, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It would have been nice I am sure, but I'm going to AGF and presume they simply had their minds focused on whether they felt an unblock was appropriate or not, and simply failed to notice the section. At any rate, it is in the past and cannot be changed now. KillerChihuahua?!?20:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah... and I didn't say otherwise. I'm explaining the "on top of things" comment, not asking for a magic wand nor assuming bad faith. DreamGuy (talk) 21:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Why was it deleted? It seemed to contain useful information, and has left some redlinks behind. Oh, I see...[1]. Well, even with Ferrylodge's apparent track record, it was useful!! Shame to see it disappear into the Wiki ether without the info being included in Miscarriage. Fences and windows (talk) 02:18, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Per your instructions of early April at Talk:Sara Palin, I don't want to derail the bridge discussion with editor bickering. BUT, Ferrylodges recent changes to my preferred version of FRcreid's bolded version was VANDALISM. Plain and simple!
Ferrylodge is a knowledgeable editor. He has been at the Sarah Palin article since before she was nominated. He knows what he is doing. Why he would vandalize another editors talk in front of 3 administrators is beyond me. How can we have a working relationship if one editor is going to change the expressed wishes and wikiedits of other involved editors??? And at such an important time.
His re-write of dialogue history is anti-Wikipedia. I think he should be BANNED from further involvement in the bridge discussion. If I didn't have the habit of re-reading previous discussions, his vandalism would have passed un-noticed.
I will not make an issue of this (ANI,etc.). I hope it is not ignored, but I will understand if it is. I'm sure you are aware that there are cabals on either side that want their POV's expressed. IMO, one side uses dirty tricks such as this. The other side (my side) are not angels but we have a sense of honor.--Buster7 (talk) 03:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ferrylodge, an "oops" after the fact is hardly acceptable, especially if the wronged party is unconvinced that the error was, in fact, an error. I can hardly intentionally wrong you, then say "Oops, my bad" and make my transgressions disappear. Further, AGF notwithstanding, you made edits to two different versions, neither yours, on the talk page, which Buster correctly notes made nonsense of the discussion which followed. You were banned for a week from the Sarah Palin article; that this was lifted is not a free pass to break TPG and run roughshod over other editors. I have blocked editors for less; one editor I know was banned by ArbCom and a very strong piece of evidence was that the editor had modified other's posts. This is a serious wrong, you know it, I know you know it; your "Sorry for any misunderstanding" is hardly sufficient. Give your word that you will not modify other's posts in the future; and that you will proceed on the Sarah Palin article and talk page with deliberation, not haste - had you not "assumed" and rushed to edit others posts this would not have happened - and I will consider this incident closed. You are on thin ice, however, making such a serious transgression less than a week after your week long ban was lifted is not reassuring. It seems you are not trying your best to avoid discord and disruption. Buster, I would appreciate it if you also will consider this incident closed if FL complies. I will understand if you do not. KillerChihuahua?!?11:16, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It was not intentional. As you can see from the diff Buster has provided, I was editing identical language of another editor's comment at that other editor's explicit request, I correctly understood the other editor's request, and in the process I simply made an understandable and innocent mistake.
For the second time, I give my word that I will not modify other's talk page posts in the future; and I will proceed on the Sarah Palin article and talk page with deliberation, not haste. I cannot remember any time in my many years on Wikipedia where I have gotten into any trouble for modifyiong another user's talk page comments. It's pretty obvious that I had absolutely nothing to gain by the extremely small edit involved here. A la prochain.Ferrylodge (talk) 14:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I will not pursue any administative action at this time. I accept your apology although I do not beleive you are being forthright. I will not go thru the trouble of investigating 50 long involved pages of archives at Sarah Palin. But, I was there from the beginning of her campaign...if not as an active participant, at least as a very interested observer. I'm sure I can find many dozen's of incidents in the archives where you stepped over the line of propriety either by your own actions or in support of one of your cohorts. I have better things to do! As KC requests above...this incident is closed. <Brove zien,eh>. Except for one final mention below......
As I requested, just for the sake of transparency and dialogue history, as we rebuild the new bridge section lets show editorial concern for properly acknowleging Each change. Even now, as editors support one bolded para over another, they are also offering their slight changes...which is confusing. Are they supporting the para as is or with the changes. If so, they really should recreate the para with their changes. We can title or number them. Currently we have three....FCreid, Buster7 and A'lii's...(sp). If I agree with a suggestion, or my para receives little support, I have the freedom to change it and put it before the group for consideration. The way it is now, changes are made, support is given, new changes are suggested, made, supported but the support is for the para that existed yesterday but was changed last night (twice) and is not the same as it was the day before (2 changes suggested but only one implemented) since then when it was quite different than what I was when I was ready to support but didn't have time until this afternoon. And. in addition to this already confused mix, an editor has gone in and changed what was said and discussed. Confused????? That's my point.--Buster7 (talk) 17:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Buster, if you'd like to discuss anything further with me, or if you would like to make accusations of dishonesty or bad faith or impropriety by me and my "cohorts", please do so at my talk page. If you do that, I will probably continue to try to admit mistakes when they seem like mistakes, and will also try to deny false accusations if it doesn't seem like I made any mistake. I may also reciprocate with some complaints of my own. But maybe we can let this drop now. Thanks.Ferrylodge (talk) 18:55, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ferrylodge, he said he's consider it closed. There was absolutely no reason for you to get on your high horse and try to keep the dispute going. KillerChihuahua?!?21:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Re: the DG/Esasus kerfuffle
Hello, KillerChihuahua. You have new messages at Arcayne's talk page. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Additionally, did you happen to add that 1RR bit to the AE sanctions thing for DG as of yet? I seem to recall you mentioning that you would do so. Even though it is for only three months, it would only assist both DG and other editors should the matter arise. - Arcayne(cast a spell)14:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You are in error. I have had nothing to do with, not even to comment, on DG's AE sanctions and/or 1RR. That was someone else. If you want to remind them, check DG's page, that's the likely place to locate such a statement. KillerChihuahua?!?21:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, it appears I am in error. As I am not usually paying attention to DG's page, I simply noted the Deacon's agreement to unblock him under the condition of 1RR. You might have mentioned it or something, and I rolled the two together. Sorry about that. Btw, you have new comments on my usertalk page. - Arcayne(cast a spell)15:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, KillerChihuahua. You have new messages at Arcayne's talk page. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
I have accused Collect of Bad Faith on the Palin Talk Page
I just did it on the talk page. I do not accuse an editor of bad faith lightly. Please read what I wrote that describes why I did so. If you think I have gone too far or should not have done this, please let me know how it can be or should have been addressed. It bothered me that Collect was once again boldly asserting something he knew to be untrue. I have argued with Collect since September 2008 and he has said the same thing umpteen times (that there are no reliable sources when he knows I've shown him sources that few would doubt are reliable (the AP, the ADN, and the Wasilla Mayor)). I only accused him of bad faith to get him to, once and for all, stop making arguments he knows to be untrue and to prod him to provide his own sources supporting his position if he knows of any that exist other than his OR.GreekParadise (talk) 01:08, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for telling me that you were coming here. So far I found zero sources from 2005 for the claim that Wasilla commuters were a prime beneficiary of the proposed Knik bridge, which appears to be GPs prime focus. As for a source saying that there are no sources <g> I fear that is where his problem lies. Collect (talk) 01:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The reason I came here was to see if KC thought I went too far and to alert KC to something I thought was a strong allegation. Collect, do you ever read any of the sources I cite? Do I have to spell it out yet again? Here it is again: http://community.adn.com/node/131399, quoting the Mayor of Wasilla in an AP/Anchorage Daily News article: "Dianne Keller, who succeeded Palin as mayor in Wasilla, has said the new $600 million crossing could lower traffic congestion in the fast-growing community. A Federal Highway Administration study shows the project would cut down some area commutes, but could add to others as more people move to the suburbs. The average commuter trip to work for Wasilla residents is 34 minutes, compared to an average of 25 minutes for the rest of the United States, according to 2000 Census figures, the most recent available." Your claim, There are no reliable sources for the bridge being proposed for commuters from Wasilla is just false. Why was the Mayor of Wasilla saying it would help Wasilla traffic congestion in an AP/ADN article? Please read the article, and if you disagree with its conclusions, it's irrelevant. If you disagree that the article is a reliable source that says that the bridge helps some Wasilla commuters, please say why. But don't say that the article doesn't exist. I've shown this specific source to you too many times over the past 8 months. Perhaps you are saying that you never read the sources I send you? That would be bad faith as well. Or you forgot to read this one even though I've sent it to you so many times in the past and again in this recent discussion? Did you ever wonder what KC and I were saying when we mentioned the AP and the Anchorage Daily News and the Mayor of Wasilla? Did you ever think to ask us what we mean? Or do you never read what anyone else writes? All I ask is that you never EVER claim again There are no reliable sources for the bridge being proposed for commuters from Wasilla.GreekParadise (talk) 14:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Now could we please move on? Do you have a single reliable source that backs up your OR that disagrees with the AP/ADN/Mayor? If so, please disclose it. If not, just admit it and we'll move on. I have asked you this on the Talk Page and you have not responded. Perhaps you'll answer if I ask again here. I hope so.GreekParadise (talk) 14:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How about a whole slew of them (from T:SP) (out) We already have specific campaign articles. Including all campaign rhetoric of whatver value is simply not needed in a BLP, especially when the claims are contentious (that Palin "continues" to support a project which has been officially halted, that the KAB in 2005 was intended to help Wasilla commuters, even though the proposal dates to the early 50s and before -- when the population of Wasilla was? 97. [17] Yep -- I bet 2000 of those 97 people commuted to Anchorage. 1960? Too small to hit the published census as near as I can tell. By 1980 (long after KAB was proposed) it was up to 1,559 population. As an argument that its commuters would use the KAP, not very strong. Commuters? [18] "The number of commuters using MASCOT's bus service to get to Anchorage jumped to 66 each day in September on average from 35 a year earlier." For the entire Mat-Su valley. And this is in 2008. More on "commuters" from [19] "Neither Eagle River nor the Matanuska-Susitna Valley is developing at a density that would support or foster any mode of transit. Such low densities would make successful transit or commuter rail development difficult." Is the current traffic bad? "Commuters from Wasilla and Eagle River experience nearly free-flow conditions on the freeway segment of the corridor (east of Bragaw Street)." All of which seems to bolster the position that the KAB was never intended for "commuters" at all in any incarnation. So what did the 2005 article say? [20] ""Basically what it would do is access hundreds of square miles of agricultural land for development," Boutin said. " Right again -- not a word about "commuters." Not a word about "Wasilla." [21] "The bridge would span Knik Arm — part of the Cook Inlet — and link Anchorage with Port McKenzie and the remote Mat-Su Borough. The project is estimated at $600 million total." Not a word about "commuters." Not a word about "Wasilla." Heck -- let's even use "Salon" [22] "The other span, nicknamed "Don Young's Way" would cross an inlet, connecting Anchorage to a rural port. " No commuter. No Wasilla. Even in Salon. ADN says [23] " For example, would people move from within Mat-Su, swapping homes in Wasilla for new ones at Point MacKenzie? Or would most new residents come from places like Anchorage attracted by bigger lots and cheaper homes?" Which implies the KAB would be a negative for Wasilla. Collect (talk) 14:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC) (posted here in response to accusation above) Collect (talk) 15:20, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Johnny and KC, I need your help...badly. On my talk page, I have posted something I wish to post on the Sarah Palin talk page. I know it's critical of individual editors, but I've given up any hope of compromise.
My goal is not to rile people up. My goal is to use wikipedia policies to allow some notable, verified material that is admittedly critical of some choices Palin has made as Governor, on the site, along with all the material that praises her choices (even though some of it, like her being on the track team in high school is, I think, far from notable).
And this hold-up is stymying the entire bio. Those who oppose me admit that they don't want things in the bio that are "just political rhetoric" (as Paul put it), even if true, verified, notable, and well-sourced. I was even willing to put the material in a footnote, but I don't think it's fair to hide it from the bio entirely.
So:
1) Is it OK if I post what I wrote on my Talk Page on the Sarah Palin Talk Page?
2) Can I at least add a POV tag to the article until the controversy is resolved? That may encourage compromise where there presently isn't any now. And it's fair, because the current version is not NPOV. (In fact it weirdly mentions both bridges and doesn't say what the second bridge is.) I can't even get into the entire bridge campaign paragraph that Collect deleted months ago without talk page discussion, because, after six weeks, we can't get past the first paragraph of the bridge section! Much less the other stuff in the bio...
3) Is there any process of formal arbiration I can utilize? Or could either of you be more active mediators?
KC, you tried to mediate this, but I haven't seen you in awhile. I've given up any hope of doing this without some formal procedure. What's next?
