Talk:Stephan Rosti

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Biography?

The following was moved from User talk:98.194.124.102 (see diff) to provide context for further discussion here. Suggest starting a new section on this page for moving forward. 98.194.124.102: Just a note... it's not proper etiquette to move the comments of others onto another page without giving a clear indication as to what happened. Looking only at the signatures and timestamps, it looks as if I was in discussion at this page, when I was in fact in discussion on your talk page. Sancho 21:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Sancho: Stephan Rosti is the article that I had spent hours building (from a version that was only the couple of sentences that remain now, and was erased by User: Supreme Deliciousness, sources included. SD questioned the validity of my sources and I question theirs. SD's source that Stephan Rosti was Hungarian is the same that declares Omar Sharif Greek-born. In fact, it is the same sentence in the same source. Ovbiously, both allegations of that sentence are false. Omar Sharif was Egyptian born and Stephan was Egyptian of an Italian Egyptian mother and an Austrian father. Previously, SD had made efforts to change Stephan Rosti's nationality from Egyptian to Italian. Now, SD calls Stephan Hungarian!

I was hoping to get to the other Egyptian articles that SD continues to change after we're done with Omar Sharif. What exactly is SD's agenda against Egypt? You tell me! (98.194.124.102 (talk) 08:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC))[reply]

By the way, the source happens to be an encyclopedia. The article in that encyclopedia is written by an Associate professor of Arabic and Linguistics at Western Michigan University [1], and edited by two respected editors. Also, in communication with the author of that encyclopedia article, he indicated to me that by "Greek-born" he meant having Greek origins, and acknowledged that he was born in Alexandria. Sancho 22:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly "Greek-born" is not the same as "having Greek-origins". What are the author's sources for asserting that Omar Sharif had Greek origins or that Stephan Rosti was Hungarian? I do not see this information properly referenced in that collection of papers loosely named "encyclopedia". Now, he acknowledges that Omar Sharif was born in Alexandria, how is he going to correct his "encyclopedia" to reflect this acknowldgement? What about Stephan Rosti's roots on which he's also wrong? Does that source retain any credibility? I realize that Austria and Hungary were one country at the time of Stephan Rosti's birth, but that is not what that author states. Also, Stephan's father was an official diplomat from that country "Austria, as it was more commonly known" in Egypt, where he met Stephan's mother and fathered the child. Due to his family's objections, he left mother and child behind in Egypt and returned to "Austria". Stephan continued to live in Egypt, travelled to Europe in search for recognition by his father, then returned to Egypt and produced his entire repertoire of work in Egypt, and he died in Egypt. To simply call him "Hungarian" is not what I would call the work of "respected editors". (98.194.124.102 (talk) 23:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC))[reply]

I don't know. Perhaps that's not the work of respected editors, but maybe they made mistakes, maybe they didn't. If there are sufficient alternate sources that establish that this source is incorrect, we can make that agreement, but it can't happen through a series of reversions without discussion. Please use the article's talk page to sort out this content dispute. Given the discussion of encyclopedias (tertiary sources) at Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary.2C_secondary_and_tertiary_sources, if there are reliable secondary sources that contradict the information in that encyclopedia, we should use those reliable secondary sources instead. But, don't just revert.Sancho 23:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We know that Omar Sharif was neither Greek born, nor had Greek origins. So, I dismiss that "encyclopedia". There are plenty of Egyptian sources on Stephan Rosti's life written in Arabic. The Arabic Wikipedia cites the information I told above. What do we do in this case?

(98.194.124.102 (talk) 23:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Sancho: please see the following on Stephan Rosti: http://www.answers.com/topic/stephan-rosti. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 00:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Below is the biography of Stephan Rosti that I could gather, no references since they were in Arabic. Since you have established communication with this author, I would appreciate if you obtained from him the sources of his article in reference to Stephan Rosti. Thanks.

"Stephan's mother was an Italian Egyptian dancer. She was performing in Egypt when she met Stephan's father, the Austrian ambassador to Cairo. The ambassador's family refused to acknowledge the relationship, and the father left mother and child behind in Egypt and returned to Austria. Stephan assumed the family name of his mother, who placed him in "Raas El-Teen" primary school in Alexandria.

"As a young man, Stephan travelled to Austria seeking recognition by his father, but to no avail. As he danced and waited tables at restaurants in Austria, Germany, and France, Stephan met and befriended two visiting Egyptian film-makers, Mohamed Kurayyem and Sirag Mounir, who encouraged him to return to Egypt to work in cinema, given his fluency in Egyptian Arabic and after he expressed his desire to do so. Stephan returned to Egypt and enrolled as a student in the "Acting Institute" of Cairo, and accepted his first role in "Layla" from producer Aziza Amir in 1927.

"Stephan appeared in 24 Egyptian films between 1927 and 1964. He also directed seven Egyptian films between 1931 and 1946. He was renowned for portraying evil characters with a satirical inclination, and he became an icon of the Egyptian film industry."

(98.194.124.102 (talk) 07:56, 20 June 2009 (UTC))[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Reverting without sources

Let's not revert without discussion. Definitely do not remove information that is supported by a reference without discussion and providing an alternate reference. As I've said before, the encyclopedia is considered a reliable source, albeit a tertiary one (see Wikipedia:PSTS). Perhaps, it's not very reliable considering the contradictions that it contains about the birthplace of Omar Sharif, but then simply provide another source rather than removing it without explanation. Arabic references are fine. Sancho 21:14, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sancho: here's a more detailed biography of Stephan Rosti: http://www.startimes2.com/f.aspx?t=16216085 (by the way, you will find Omar Sharif and Stephan Rosti in an Egyptian film in the first photo on that page). Thank you for accepting Arabic sources. If you read Arabic, you will find strong agreement with the bio that I had constructed. --98.194.124.102 (talk) 00:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

يا ترى النجوم اللي أمتعونا نعرف عنهم إيه أكتر من اللي بنشوفوا على الشاشة ؟ هل نعرف ألامهم معناتهم ..عذابتهم .. أحلامهم ..
والسؤال اللي دايما بيؤرقني ومش لاقيه له إجابة ليه دايما نجوم الكوميديا نهايتهم مملوءة بالدموع بعدد الابتسامات اللي رسموها على وجوهنا؟؟؟
إستيفانو دي روستي وكلمة (دي ) عند الأجانب ما بتكونش موجودة إلا للدلالة على علو المكانة المولود في سنة 1891 لأب نمساوي وهو سفير النمسا بالقاهرة وأم إيطالية .. كانت الأم عاشقة لمصر حتى لما جوزها ترك العمل السياسي وقرر الذهاب للنمسا للاستقرار في بلده رفضت وقرت الحياة في مصر وتطلقت منه ..وذهبت بابنها إستيفان إسكندرية واستحبت هناك علشان تبعده عن أبوه ليخطفه .. كانت المنطقة التي اختبئوا بها هي منطقة راس التين واللي دخل إستيفان مدارسها حتى المرحلة الثانوية وهناك بدأت تظهر عليه موهبة التمثيل ... ولكن وآه من لكن تلك. حذر أحد المدرسين إستيفان من الاستمرار في التمثيل في الفرق الصغيرة بالإسكندرية وكان رد استيفان(ماقدرش أمنع نفسي من التمثيل) ..فكان أن تم فصله من المدرسة ... حد يصدق إن استيفان البارون النمساوي ابن السفير كلن بوسجي؟! بعد فصل استيفان من المدرسة قدم ورقه إلى مصلحة البريد واللي عينته بوسطجي وبعد 8 أيام جالهم جواب من نفس المدرس إن استيفان(والعياذ بالله) ممثلا فتم فصله من مصلحة البريد ... (في كل العصور يوجد متخلفون فبلاش نظلم عصرنا) ... نتيجة اللي حصل وإن فلوس التمثيل لا تكفيه هو ووالدته قررا الاثنان الذهاب إلى إيطاليا للعمل ودراسة التمثيل وقد كان له ما أراد ففي إيطاليا عمل مترجما ودرس التمثيل ، وشاهد المسرح الإيطالي ونجومه الكبار ..
عمل هناك مساعدا للإخراج في الأفلام ومستشارا للعادات والتقاليد الشرقية في الأفلام التي تنتج عن الشرق والمغرب العربي ..ثم سافر إلى فرنسا وهناك عمل في الأفلام السينمائية ثم سافر إلى فيينا حيث شارك في إحدى المسرحيات ... قابل روستي محمد كريم واللي كان بيدرس الإخراج في ألمانيا وكان معاه الفنان سراج منير اللي هجر الطب وكان يدرس في نفس المعهد فكان قرار إستيفان أنه يدرس في نفس المعهد التمثيل دراسة أكاديمية ... رجع إستيفان لمصر وقابل عزيز عيد واللي كان إستيفان مبهوراً به في طفولته، و أعجب عزيز عيد بإستيفان وكان منه أن أسند له دور في مسرحية "خاللي بالك من إيميلي" وشيئا فشيئا صار عند عزيز ذو أهمية كبيرة "أو فرخة بكشك" لكنه ترك عزيز عيد وانضم للريحاني وبعدها لفرقة يوسف وهبي .. وقد قدم دور بابا حاج في أوبريت العشرة الطيبة للريحاني وعرب الكثير والكثير من المسرحيات الأجنبية ... يوجد موقف لإستيفان روستي مع الريحاني يحكي كيف أن هذا الفنان فذ موهوب للغاية ..في أحد الأيام وكان يمثل مسرحية مع يوسف وهبي وكان أول مشهد هو مشهده عند فتح الستارة وقد تأخر عن ميعاده المعتاد وكان يوسف وهبي يهدد فميعاد فتح الستارة مقدس ولا يستطيع أن يؤخره وكان دور إستيفان هو دور بارمان فما كان من يوسف وهبي إلا أن يقوم بتأديته بدلا منه إنقاذا للموقف وعند فتح الستار وقبل أن يبدأ يوسف وهبي في التمثيل دخل استيفان إلى المسرح فما كان من يوسف وهبي إلا أن فقد أعصابه على المسرح ووبخه على التأخير فقام استيفان روستي (بلم الدور) وتقمص شخصية البارمان وأعتذر له لأنه تأخر عن الوردية وحكى له الحقيقة وهي أن عمل حادثة بسيارته وأنه تركها واستقل الترام والذي تأخر أيضا ولكن الحمد لله أنه وصل في معاده فوصلت الرسالة ليوسف وهبي وأعتقد الجمهور أن هذا جزء من المسرحية وتمت الليلة بسلام..
كان يوجد امرأة اسمها عزيزة أمير منتجة وممثلة شغوفة جدا بالسينما وكانت لها شركة إنتاج اسمها إيزيس فيلم وقررت وقتها أن تخرج أول فيلم مصري اسمه (يد الله) وتعرفت على مخرج تركي اسمه وداد عرفي عرف نفسه على إنه مخرج وموفد شركة ماركوس الألمانية لاختيار نجوم للأفلام التي تنوي الشركة إنتاجها. فما كان من عزيزة أمير إلا أنها أسندت إليه إخراج فيلمها الأول ولكن بعد اكتمال الفيلم اكتشفت أنه كارثة وأن ودادا عرفي نصاب (حقيقة عرفوها بعدين) ولا يفقه شيئا عن المبادئ الأولية للإخراج فما كان منها إلا أن تسند إخراج الفيلم إلى إستيفان روستي وأعادت كتابة الفيلم بمشاركة أحمد جلال وكان الفيلم هو (ليلى) أول فيلم مصري مئة في المئة وكان من إخراج استيفان روستي ... شارك أيضا في كتابة العديد من سيناريوهات الأفلام منها قاطع الطريق ولن أعترف وابن ذوات سنة 1964 انطلقت إشاعة تقول أنه قد توفي وقامت نقابة الممثلين بعمل حفل تأبين له إلا أنهم فوجئوا بدخوله عليهم فانطلقت الزغاريد من ماري منيب ونجوى سالم وسعاد حسين ابتهاجاً بوجوده على قيد الحياة والطريف أنه توفي في مايو من نفس العام .... تزوج إستيفان روستي من فتاة يتيمة فقيرة اسمها "ماريا" رزق منها بطفلين إلا أنهم توفوا وهم أطفال في حياته مما ترك أكبر أثر في حياته ،وحينما توفي لم يجدوا في منزله إلا مبلغاً تافهاً لا يتعدى عشر جنيهات ..وقد سرق اللصوص سيارته بعد وفاته بأسبوع وقد حزنت زوجته عليه حتى أصابها الجنون .. نشنت يا فالح .. أنا مهندس .. دقيقة واحدة أتحزم وأجي أرقص مع حضرتك .. كلها جمل صنعت من فنه كوميديا الشر ...

The web site http://www.startimes2.com looks like it may accept user-submitted content. I think there needs to be some evidence that this site qualifies as a WP:Reliable source. EdJohnston (talk) 00:28, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The same text is found here: http://www.copts-united.com/08_copts-united_08/cinema.php/2009/02/06/16404.html --98.194.124.102 (talk) 00:39, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That one seems to be an activist web site that promotes the interests of the Copts. Isn't there anything like a newspaper site that would have this information? Or the name of a published book? EdJohnston (talk) 02:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am searching; and you can help search too. However, Stephan Rosti was not a Copt and the site says that it is for all Egyptians. The name of the biographist is written there, Hind Mukhtar, which sounds like a Muslim name. --98.194.124.102 (talk) 02:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]