Talk:Cocteau Twins

Old peer review

I kept most things from the old article intact, only removed the 'year in music' links.. I thought they really cluttered the text up, while every 'year' article has links to 'year in music' in it. - Jashiin

My Bloody Valentine influenced by CT?

Do My Bloody Valentine say they were influenced by the Cocteau Twins or is that just the opinion of the editor? I find it hard to credit because for all that the Cocteau Twins are a great band, MBV so are not influenced by them that it hurts. I'm not even going to start on whether they are "shoegazers".Dr Zen 05:29, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• • I agree that this statement should be removed until a specific quotation by Shields can be found. Still, the Twins can be seen as prototypical of shoegazing, and Guthrie went on to produce two recordings by Lush.

• • • Thanks for your comment. Prototypical? Hmmm. Precursors, maybe. The family connection is there. But I'm not sure about MBV as shoegazers. Lush, only their early stuff. They became much more pop as they chased fame. Dr Zen 06:13, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you're so reluctant to admit CT influence on MBV - because, well, while Loveless certainly doesn't sound anything like CT and relies on different things, MBV's Isn't Anything and their earlier recordings have shoegazing/CT influence everywhere around. CT had a number of 'rough' songs/EPs (the 1985 Aikea-Guinea EP, for instance) that, when compared to MBV's songs like Cupid Come or Sundaysundaesmile, show lots of similarities.. well, only in my eyes maybe? Anyway, while I haven't found any direct evidence in Shields'/MBV interviews, Shields still talks about CT and admits he likes them (lists CT as one of his favorite bands 1 while commenting about song lyrics), and that his approach is the same:

Interviewer: Geez, wouldn't it have been quicker just to hook up a CryBaby? If you're Kevin Shields, probably not. There's more than a touch of the Cocteau Twins' Robin Guthrie in Kevin's studio obsessiveness. "In attitude toward sound, yes," Kev allows. "But not in approach." (...) I think Robin Guthrie is quite good, by the way 2

So.. I think the notice should stay there, given the general similarities of style (which are inpenetrable guitar riffs, use of effects as instruments, experimentation with traditional structure and indecipherable vocals), and that CT were actual precursors to the whole shoegazing movement. -- Jashiin 09:06, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You've just given a quote yourself that says exactly that "in attitude to sound" Shields shared characteristics with Guthrie, but not "in approach"! IOW, they liked to fiddle in the studio but made different music. "I think he's quite good" does not mean "I was influenced by him"!Dr Zen 22:53, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Uh.. "there's more than a touch of Robin Guthrie - in attitude towards sound, yes (there is more than Robin Guthrie here), .. but not in approach (ie here its not more than him, its the same)." At least thats the way I read it. Maybe my English isn't good enough, okay, but what about all the other things I wrote? I still maintain it that if you compare early MBV songs and CT of early 80s, you get lots of similarities. -- Jashiin 08:39, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If you listen to the Cocteau Twins EP Aikea-Guinea, dated from 1985, you will find in "Rocococ," the instrumental track which closes the EP, the entire blueprint for the sound of Loveless, which wouldn't come out until 1991.

Sampled live drums, sequenced parts, the combination of delay and pitch bending, complex vocal melodies and unintelligible lyrics are just some of the similarities between the Cocteau's Treasure and MBV's Loveless. Of course Kevin Shields would never admit to such an influence...

62.77.181.13 (talk) 12:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Victorialand stub

FYI: Created and heavily stubbed the Victorialand page, you may want to check/add. ←^#6  _talk 19:33, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The current photo

I heavily doubt that this promotional picture can be offered under the GFDL. Can someone vouch that the photographer has released it to Wikipedia? Crculver 02:56, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Drum Machines, Tapes and Rhythms

This page desperately needs to mention that the Cocteau twins were pioneering in their usage of drum machines and backing tapes. They actually used a four track system on the road to create 'that' sound. Also Guthrie was one of the first people to use the Ebow and made popular the use of the Fender Jaguar and Fender Jazzmaster guitars. If I can find sources I'll add this info. ----

You might also want go back and listen to some Bill Nelson and Be-Bop Deluxe. "One of the first people" - jeez....you kids....

"The"

The band is "Cocteau Twins," not "The Cocteau Twins" (cf. the official site). However, the members of the band collectively seem to be referred to as "The Coctau Twins." Please keep this in mind when editing. Intelligence3 15:44, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Weren't they "members of Cocteau Twins" instead? --tranquileye (talk) 20:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

ELIZABETH FRASER'S NEW ALBUM SPRING 2007

When I heard that Elizabeth Fraser was FINALLY producing something new, I honestly couldn't contain my exitement. That exitement was short-lived. Disappointing is not a good enough word to describe my feelings for this lame mid-90's-sounding-background-rave-club-can only enjoy if you are tripping on X-waste of time. The new track "Underwater" not only sucks so bad I want to cry, but it droans on tauntingly for over 9 minutes. I never write on these forums but I just couldn't contain myself. Do any other devout Cocteau Twins/Elizabeth Fraser fans feel similar? I just have to know. I just can't believe that I have waited ten years to hear this crap!!! Elizabeth, please, if you can't produce something tolerable, preserve your memory and hang it up (and I was willing to forget about the bizarre, in a bad way, rendition of "Frosty the Snowman").76.18.51.254 12:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC) K —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.18.51.254 (talk) 12:21, 24 February 2007 (UTC).

This is not a fan forum. --tranquileye (talk) 20:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Podcast not from band?

Is there any indication that the podcast mentioned at the end of the article is actually from the band? It seems to be a fan-generated project. --tranquileye (talk) 20:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Dreampop?

I never heard that term before. From 1982 til 1983, the Cocteau Twins played Goth/Post-punk in the veins of Joy Division and Siouxsie & The Banshees. „Garlands“, „Lullabies“ und „Peppermint Pig“ are Goth works par excellence. From 1983 til 1985 the band created a more 'ethereal' sound that was a strong influence on the later Ethereal movement, a part of the Darkwave culture, with bands such as This Ascension, Lycia, Love Spirals Downwards and other groups. In 1986, Victorialand was released. With Victorialand, the band started a new style... pop-oriented and catchy (Dreampop?). They never returned to their dark, goth-like Ethereal style. And all the sinister guitar sounds and The-Cure-like bass guitar lines disappeared. --Ada Kataki (talk) 01:08, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Cocteau Twins were certainly known as a dreampop band in the later eighties, and also as shoegazers. "Dreampop" doesn't mean pop orientated, it means music that is more abstract and dream-like than mainstream pop - I'd cite Tiny Dynamine or Blue Bell Knoll as examples. I disagree that they became more "straight" pop orientated with Victorialand - that happened later from "Heaven or Las Vegas" onwards.Burtonales (talk) 13:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Release Dates

I've added release dates, however I have a couple of conflicts. I haven't amended the details on the main page, but I have "Garlands" listed as released May 1982, not September; "Head over Heels" as September 1983, not October; and "Heaven or Las Vegas" as 17 September 1990, not August 28 (I have that as the release of the single "Iceblink Luck" which I'm sure was a few weeks before. Any verification would be welcome! Burtonales (talk) 13:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)