Talk:Sindhis

Lets Start the Sindhi people community discussion forum :

Hi,I am Umesh Phulwani currently I am working as a Soft.Engg. in Pune . Mah. I know very little about Sindhi culture .Traditionally I feel Sindhi people dont like Sindhism and they are afraid of showing their identity. But I feel we the new generation are capable and dare enough to talk about ourself. Well in Pune I dont know any dedicated Temple for Sindhi's "Tikaannaa" . Anyone in Pimpri,Pune must be knowing it .Please write it down in this discussion forum. ................................................................................................

I'm sorry, but this page can't be used as a discussion forum, it is meant for discussion about the article. utcursch | talk 08:30, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Separate articles?

I've seen the edits to this articles in recent times. There seems to be some confusion regarding Sindhis of India and Sindhis of Pakistan. For example, Jhulelal is venerated among Hindu Sindhis, not Muslim Sindhis of Pakistan. I wonder if there should there be separate artciles: Sindhi people of India and Sindhi people of Pakistan? utcursch | talk 10:49, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Hey Utcursch. Good ideas as always. Although I have to ask what's the point of discussing this one deity regarding even the Sindhis of India? They are, in general Hindu, and I'd hate to see an entire article about them become simply a platform for this particular deity. With that said, I am not necessarily averse to the idea of separate articles for each, but they should adhere to certain standards. For example, this article on the Sindhi people doesn't overally examine specific veneration of sufi saints, but just mentions that some of them are involved in that practice etc. Similarly, that's what should take place for a Sindhi people of India article in my opinion IF you choose to go that route. I'm somewhat neutral on the idea, but I greatly appreciate your attempt at seeing all sides and trying to find a solution. I'm just not sure you need to do that for everyone who is sitting on a soapbox. Perhaps we could keep this article as a general one and then a separate one for the Sindhis of India since they are the much smaller group AND there are over a million Sindhi Hindus in Pakistan as well. Just my take. Thanks and take care. Tombseye 20:59, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

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> You can't say that Jhilelal is just association with Hindus Sindhis of India. As there are Hindu Sindhis both in India and Pakistan. As for Jhulelal, he is celebrated by Sindhi Muslims also, but just by different names....

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> Also, many of todays Sindhi Muslims would have been at some point Sindhi Hindus who changed religion etc... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.107.77 (talk) 15:45, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Jinnah's Picture

-Muhammad Ali Jinnah was of Gujarati origin. Just because he was born in Sindh, it does not change his ethnicity, which goes back to his parents, who were from Gujarat. Someone clarify for me please. It would be better to try to find a picture of some historic Sindhi person like, Shah Abdul Latif, if one exists. -User: Afghan Historian

firstly jinnah is here becuase i couldnt find any other un-copyrighted pictures of famous sindhi people. if you can find one for me. great ill change it. but seriously i do think jinnah should be considered sindhi. he was born in sindh for 1, 2) he is of the of the clan that most muslims in north west india is from. rajput, jat or whatever, unless you can give me concrete proof saying he is a GUJJAR.

His father was a Khoja muslim from the Kathiawar area in Gujarat. Furthermore Jinnah spoke Gujarati, Karachi was and still is one of the most cosmopolitan cities in South Asia, people from many different ethnicities who live there.

this might help you.you can find names and list of sindhi (muslims and hindus)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sindh

Some Sindhi Some Sindhi personalities / dignitaries who born in Sindh / Sindhi families & earned international name / reputation

link (http://www.sindhtoday.net/celebrity.htm)

--Khalidkhoso 12:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Moved from Talk:Main Page

Dear Sir/Madam, It is mentioned on the page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindhi_people

that there are 23 millio Sindhi speakers. Though this figure is much lower than the fatual figure, an other page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindhi_language

states that the number of Sindhi speakers in only 19.7 millions. It is contradictions in what the Wikipedia states for Sindhi lanauge.

There is an other condradictory statement on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindhi_language

that Sindhi is written in Devnagri script. The fact is that the Devnagri script is never recognized officially. Even the govt. of India declares Sindhi as one of its official and national languages in ARABIC SINDHI script. Even if you consider the Devnagri script more acceptable to Sindhi Hindus in India, considering their smaller number (2.8 millions: as stated by one of your pages), the Sindhi article on the page

http://sd.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

must have been place in Sindhi Arabic script. Sindhi practically used as official language in Sindh in Sindhi Arabic Script. The official website of NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR PROMOTION OF SINDHI LANGUAGE (INDIA) provides a Sindhi font for downloading, which is an ARABIC-SINDHI font. This established the fact that even in INDIA, Sindhi is dominantly accepted and written in ARABIC-SINDHI script.

Kindly redress the issue; by placing the articles in ARABIC-SINDHHI script.

Ahsan Ahmad Ursani

The above was originally posted on Talk: Main Page by User:Aursani at 23:30 on 2006 February 14 (UTC). --PFHLai 07:30, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[TEJWANI]: Dear Sir/Madam, I second the opinion of Ursani above regarding ARABIC-SINDHI script. I for one was educated in this script in a primary school in INDIA.

Template Problems

-I removed the Baloch and Pashtuns as Indo-Aryan-relatives of the Sindhis from the template. They are both Iranian peoples, not Indo-Aryan groups. Just because they reside on the subcontinent (or more rather, its northwestern fringes) doesn't mean they are Indo-Aryan. I've replaced them with Rajputs and Jats, who are Indo-Aryan. -[[Afghan Historian 21:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)]]

Indian Sindhis

This article discusses nothing about Indian Sindhis or of influence of Hinduism on Sindhis as a whole. My understanding is that most Hindu Sindhis who migrated to India were of merchant castes while those left behind were of so called "lower" castes. Maybe somebody could contribute to this. File:England flag large.png अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey 16:03, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

NO there is no such things.Those who were left behind were protect by muslims and many of those adopted cast system of those muslim as we have Bugti Hindu Sindhi(they are Hindu Sindhi),Rind Hindu Sindhi and many more but many have not changed there cast as we have advani(L.K advai Head of BJP in india) and Govindani and many other Hindu Sindhi (they are many From Middle or High Class Religious class) as Barhaman Sindhi living in Thar. You are true that Hindu sindhi are marchant,that is true.it is regardless if they are an india,pakistan or any part of world.here in Pakistan sindh Hindu Sindhi are Educated and having good jobs.

Dravidians

The part about Dravidians invading from Iran and being linguistically related to the Elamites is a controversial theory that is not universally accepted, but it is presented as indisputably factual in the article. --Grammatical error 12:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

where to put these cast\tribes names

There are many other groups too ,i am not sure about there roots but for sure they been living here in sindh for centuries. tell me where to put them? List of tribes

• Khaskhli (tribe living in larkana,Shahdad kot,Tando Adam)
• Dahar
• Qasmi
• Qureshi
• Sommro
• Jukhio
• Bundh
• Tuni
• Bohar
• Jhatial
• Thebo
• Abbasi
• Mangi
• Qazi
• Mahar
• Sindhi Memon
• Odho
• Hakro
• Syial
• Jiskani ( tribe living in Moro, khairpur,karachi,ghotki,tando adam ,mithi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.186.66.239 (talk) 05:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

--Khalidkhoso 05:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

these all are sindhi speaking groups and living sindh for generations —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Khalidkhoso (talk • contribs) 05:55, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

I have added these tribes to the article and provided a reference. Those who have more knowledge on the tribes are welcome to elaborate on them. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 06:52, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Anu for All this Help

--Khalidkhoso 11:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 17:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Mass exodus of Hindu Sindhis

This article should not have been 'linked out' to some Partition of India page. It is insulting to the Hindu Sindhi community. The fate of Hindu Sindhis was terrible, as the Hindus forced out of Sindh due to violence (though it is a pity that younger generations are told they 'left' as if by choice). The Partition was the worse thing to happen in Sindh (both for Muslims and Hindus). Millions of Hindus were forced to flee!

Many Hindus wanted to return to Sindh which was their native homeland once the violence died down but were unable to.

I think is an insult to a community that has suffered the most as a result of the Partition, to not even be acknowledged and that the article should be fobbed off somewhere else....

Hindu Sindhis were left with no homeland, unlike Punjab we split between India and Pak and so was Bengal. So each community had a piece of land. Even then slitting of Sindh was not necessary, as Hindu Sindis would have been okay to live under Muslim rule, so long as the community was respected and protected.

Today those Hindu Sindhi that have left, are propering due to hard work and grace of God. The language of Hindu Sindhis is dying in India etc... since most migrated to parts which are not native in language etc...

I am not going to edit back the Mass Exodus of Hindu Sindhis.... since someone will come along and try to re-write history!. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.172.177 (talk) 12:07, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

HEY HOW ABOUT SOME STORY ON SINDHI DIASPORA IN THE WEST. WHERE IS THE MENTION OF THIS STORY? THERE ARE THOUSAND OF US AND WE ARE AS IMPORTANT AS THE REST. PLEASE INFORM ME OF WHEN YOU CONCLUDE TO INCLUDE THIS INFORMATION THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND MAY YOU HAVE A NICE DAY.

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 19:52, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Excessive protectiveness

Users DO NOT own the article. It can and will be edited as other editors see fit.

Wikipedia is not a place for propaganda. You may have an opinion, but unless you can provide reliable sourcecs, it does not belong in the article. Even if you do find sources, you cannot turn the article into a soapbox.

Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 08:35, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

User:Skatergal, your edits and comments suggest that you have assumed ownership of this article. That is not in keeping with Wikipedia guidelines. I would like to repeat my offer for a discussion on the issue. I realise you feel strongly about this topic, but no single user has a right over any article.

Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 20:13, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Rfc regarding back-and-forth edits

Anything in particular? YellowMonkey (click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 03:38, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I was makiing an attempt to clean up this article by - 1)removing strongly NPOV and unsourced controversial statements and 2) removing parts that belonged in a different article. I was constantly blocked by a group of editors, probably belonging to the Hindu Sindhi community, who saw each edit as an attack on the community.

As evidence you can see the edit history, particularly these two [1], and [2] comments, it was a clear case of ownership.

However, ever since I added the Rfc tag, the edit warring has stopped, so there may not be any need for comment.

Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 17:37, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

There is no need for an edit war

A user has requested mediation on this issue. A mediator is here to help resolve your dispute. The case page for this mediation is located here.

Gamesmasterg9, who told you "Jatin Lalwani" and "Ramesh Taurani" are Producers? They are actors. You have made a mess of the whole article. There are no Baloch Sindhis, Balochis are a different cast, thanks for nothing! -Skatergirl —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skatergal (talk • contribs) 22:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Skatergal, a little civility would be nice. And if it makes you feel better, I admit that I was wrong about Messrs Taurani and Lalwani. As you correctly point out, they are actors, not producers. Now can we move on to the important stuff? Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 23:27, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

To the Sindhi editors, and particularly to User:Skatergal - I understand that you feel strongly about this article, and also that you have a great deal more specialised knowledge on the topic than I do (being non-Sindhi), but Wikipedia is not just about that. This is an encyclopaedia and there are very specific guidelines on what makes a good article. You may feel that all the information you put must remain, but remember that the article does not belong to any user or group. In order to make this more readable, I have made attempts to reorganise it, and to remove sections that do not belong in the article for a variety of reasons - some do not conform to WP:NPOV, and others should be in separate articles.

I appreciate your input and do not want to get into a fight, because I realise your knowledge on this topic is deeper than mine. However, it is helpful to have an objective, outside opinion on the issue. Please do not make this a Sindhi/non-Sindhi battle, because that is clearly against the spirit of Wikipedia.

Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 02:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Gamesmasterg9, I really don't understand what is your problem. You are the one being stubborn who reverts my edit every morning I wake up. I don't have a problem with non-Sindhis contributing, but you're not contributing anything, you are just reverting and not making progress. Any edit I make, I provide a link for its validity. You should really explain your actions. In the future, I would like you to discuss the changes you want with me, instead of just reverting the whole thing.

(response by User:Skatergal)

First, your own comments make it very clear that you do in fact have problems with non-Sindhis contributing, but I will let that slide. Regarding my edits - I do consider them to be constructive, and if you will look at the history [3], I have explained each edit I made. Your response to that was to revert everything and threaten me.

Second, you have to stop acting like you are the keeper of this article. I am under no compulsion to get your approval on every change I make. On Wikipedia, we are all editors, and we are all equals. This means that disagreements are sorted out by discussion - not stonewalling.

Now, here is what I am going to do. I am making all the changes I made earlier, and once again, for your benefit, I am going to explain why I am making each change. Any disagreements you have, you can list here, and they can be discussed.

Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 22:54, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Sri Lankan Sindhis

There is also a dispora in Sri Lanka. [4] please add to page. --92.9.53.245 (talk) 21:01, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

The article has currently been locked. Once the issues are resolved we will certainly deal with it. Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 23:29, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

DAB link

{{editprotected}} Hi. There's a link to the DAB page Punjab in the section Ethnicity. Could you change it a piped link to Punjab region, please? Thanks Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 22:57, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

 Done Ruslik (talk) 09:17, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Bhutto picture

If you take a look at the best articles on Ethnic groups [5], you will see that they try and feature members of that group throughout history. In particular look at Tamil people, which is a featured article, and about also about an Indic group. They have included people from various fields, and periods in history. Also look at Greeks and Irish people for examples.

Not only do I think Bhutto's picture should stay, but I think we need more pictures of notable Pakistani Sindhis. Given that two-thirds of Sindhis live in Pakistan, it would be unfair if not even one Pakistani was shown in the notable people section. Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 21:36, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Informal mediation

The editing dispute seems to include:

• A disagreement over the images used in the infobox. Specifically whether there should be 3 images depicting Sindhis from India only, or whether there should be 5, depicting, in addition to Sindhis from India, Sindhis from Pakistan. In the context of Gamesmasterg9's explanation above, it would be helpful if Skatergal could explain why she believes the additional images shouldn't be included.

• • In the meantime, we have some another user getting in on the act. All the pictures of Indian Sindhis were replaced by Pakistanis. I reverted it, but this has the beginnings of a long pissing contest. Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 02:26, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

• There is an edit war over including names in the famous Sindhis in Bollywood section. This includes a revert war over the addition of {{fact}} tags. In some cases, sources appear to be available, for example "Family Reunion". Indian Express. seems to indicate the Ramsay Brothers are Sindhi. In these cases, I suggest adding the biographical articles to Category:Sindhi people, and either include a source in the biographical article, or on its talk page.

PhilKnight (talk) 17:13, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I've protected again. PhilKnight (talk) 22:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Interwiki hr

Could an admin put interwiki: hr:Sindhi Thanx! Vedran12 (talk) 20:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

 Done. PhilKnight (talk) 11:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The section about mass exodus of Hindu Sindhis

I noticed a term, "Sindhi baloch"... what does that mean??? is there something like that??? from what I know, Balochi are people from balochistan province... whereas sindhis are from sindh province.. I can understand Hindu sindhi and muslim sindhi, but what is this balochi sindhi? actually even hindu sindhi sounds funny, becoz sindhis who are non-muslim just call themselves sindhi, they worship jhooley lal, matsya avtaar of vishnu... whereas those who got converted to islam stopped worshipping jhooleylal but continued sticking to sindhi culture/language... but then again, a popular sufi composition by shah baz kalandar set in sindhi culture, damadam mast qalandar, says repeatedly, "jhooley laalan", and then also says, "name-e-ali"...Lilaac (talk) 04:09, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

My doubts

I have some doubts regarding some stuff written in this article without references, but I dont want to change it and cause arguments... 1.Ancient name of Multan was Sarawakistan?? "stan" is a irani root word, sindh province was aryan territory in ancient times, multan would have had some other sanskrit name in vedic times until islamic invasions. <br\>

I found the right ancient name, it was 'Mulastanapura' in Sanskrit, known by that name upto 8th century, prior to arab conquest. This is the reference: http://books.google.com/books?id=9qVkNBge8mIC&pg=PA96&dq=Multan+historical+names&ei=67ggSoLiI5aQyAT9rcXFAg, The Indian diaspora in Central Asia and its trade, 1550-1900,pg.96, By Scott Cameron Levi. -Lilaac (talk) 04:52, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I found further references of its name right from mauryan empire to modern day: http://books.google.com/books?id=7E1XAAAAMAAJ&q=Kasyapapura&dq=Kasyapapura&ei=jlQlSu28IJOUzATm_b33Bg&pgis=1. Pg 41 History of the Punjab: Pre-historic times to age of Asoka, By Fauja Singh. Lilaac (talk) 16:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC) <br\><br\>

And I also realised that the article Multan has its ancient names right, and sarawakistan has no results even in google search! Lilaac (talk) 16:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

2.traditional dress of pakistani sindhis is salwar kameez but Indian sindhis also wear jeans?? I am sure young pakistani sindhis raised in modern cities may be wearing kurtis&jeans, its not an Indian sindhi thing.. <br\>
3.The entertainment section mentions a popular sindhi, Shahana Goswami. From what I know, Goswamis are bengalis!Lilaac (talk) 04:37, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree with most of your doubts. I have tried to make changes before, but there is a small Sindhi group that consistently blocks the changes. Since I don't know much about Sindhi culture, I don't want to make changes unless I am absolutely sure. Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 17:30, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Anti-Muslim slant

I have made a number of changes to the article to remove words that have no place in an encyclopaedia. For example - referring to the Muslim residents of Sindh as "descendants of immigrants" and "conquerors", rather than just calling tham Muslim Sindhis, essentially conflates Sindhi-ness with Hinduism, which is far from true.

I realise that the Partition of India is an event that Hindu Sindhis feel very strongly about, but those emotions should not be reflected in this article. For example, it is known that Hindu Sindhis have achieved success in the fields of business after being forced to leave Pakistan, but that should be written as an objective fact, and not embellished with statements like "On the ruins of Old Sindh has arisen a New Sindh, which truly has a Global presence today."

Gamesmaster G-9 (talk) 01:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Shilpa Saklani is not Sindhi

PLease remove Shilpa Saklanis name from the list of Sindhi people in entertainment. She is Garhwali from Uttranchal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Limpbiz0007 (talk • contribs) 13:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

including, but not limited to

"Including, but not limited to" is lawyer-speak and is unnecessary since "including" implies additional items already. --Unimath (talk) 12:50, 1 September 2009 (UTC)