User talk:Utcursch

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Education in India Five Year Plan Expenditure[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:Education in India Five Year Plan Expenditure has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Frietjes (talk) 18:25, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

pending changes reviewer privileges[edit]

Thanks for granting me pending changes reviewer privileges, Utcursch. I've wondered how that works. I've looked at Wikipedia:Pending changes, and will plan to keep Special:PendingChanges in my purview for editing tasks. = paul2520 (talk) 16:38, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

@Paul2520: No problem. I saw your changes here that were pending review. I don't really think that your edits need to be reviewed, given your experience and trustworthiness -- it's less work for everyone when you are a pending changes reviewer. utcursch | talk 18:03, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Dhan Singh Gurjar[edit]

Dear Mr. Utcursch, hi,

The Gujarat State took it’s name from the Gurjars/Gujjars, who ruled the area during the 700’s and 800’s. Ref: Government of Gujarat official website :::

Criminals were found in all caste of india and world. But that was not mean that whole caste is criminal. We can not blame whole caste for the work done by some criminals. Criminals had no caste and religions.

Being a historian, You have reverted my changes in wiki. I strongly oppose the words writtem for Gurjar caste in Dhan Singh Gurjar wiki page. This is true that Britishers had put Gurjar caste in criminal tribe act. But this action was taken for all those caste who participated in freedom fight of india. If you refer quotes of british author then you should also refer the quotes of indian historians. This was not truth that is the reason that indian government removed Gurjar Caste name from Criminal Tribe act immediately after india freedom in 1947, which was made by British government with conspiracy. Dy. Prime Minister & home minister of India Sardar Vallabbhai Patel got the Act repealed.

The Imperial Gazetteer of India states that throughout the Indian Rebellion of 1857, Gurjars and Ranghars (Muslim rajpoots) proved the "most irreconcilable enemies" of the British in the Bulandshahr area.[99] Ref:

If Gurjar caste was habitual as your british author quoted then why four princely states was in western U.P. namely Landhora, Parikshit Garh, Behsuma and Dadri before east india company arrival in india. But these states openly revolted against the british Army so that they have snatched lands from Gurjar Caste. At that Time western UP was called as small Gurjarat because majority of people belogs to Gurjar Caste.

India vibrant state Gujarat is in the name of great Gurjar caste of India. You can view the official webpage of Government of Gujarat-India. Ref:

If Gurjar caste was criminal caste as defined by Britishers at that time then why British Government had given a Vitoria Cross to a Gurjar Soldier Mr. Kamal Ram Harshana, who fought in World War-II with British Army. Truth is that Gurjars were Marshal race and majority of Gurjars recruited in Indian Army. Ref:

These words may create unrest between ogurjar and other caste of india. No body can agree with you to add disputed words for a great caste in which Great King Mihir Bhoja, Kanishka with their great Kingdoms like Gurjar Pratihar dynasty, great indian leader Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel were born. Ref:

I again request you not to permit disputed history and words for a great Caste of India. This wiki page is for information of Dhan Singh Kotwal (Gurjar) and about his participation in freedom movement of india in 1857. Then Why wikipedians has allowed to write wrong information about Gurjar Caste and their profession with contradictions.

If Dhan singh Gurjar was cheif of Police of Meerut at that time in british rule time then how you can write criminal caste to whole Gurjar caste as thief.

I strogly object on this language and once again request you to remove all these matter from wikipedia. Regards, Gurjeshwar (talk) 05:49, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

@Gurjeshwar: The article doesn't say that the Gurjars are (or were) criminals. It just states the opinions of the British officials (and that's why the words "cattle stealers by profession" are in quotes). The sentence provides context for the the events involving Dhan Singh and other Gurjars, and is supported by the reference (which discusses it in the context of Dhan Singh's actions.)
Your demand is akin to insisting that we must remove any mention of Brahmin casteism against Dalits, because the Dalits would find it offensive.
Also, if you're "a reprensative of Gurjar Organisation" as you claim in an edit summary, please have a look at WP:COI. utcursch | talk 15:26, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

A beer for you![edit]

Export hell seidel steiner.png Hello Utcursch, Thanks for letting me know the authenticity issue. I only wish that most authentic information is available at Wikipedia and is strictly against any kind of endorsement, appeasement or hatred on this fountain of knowledge. As you noted that a blog-spot is not a reliable source, so do I agree in this instance but I am able to find a much reliable source at that substantiate same contents with footnotes and reliable published sources. Help and guidance will be much appreciated in making the article in question more informative and reliable. Thank You. Writereditor009 (talk) 11:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
@Writereditor009: The Indpaedia article is information from the outdated colonial-era book The Tribes And Castes Of The Central Provinces Of India. It's not an optimal source either -- please see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 172#Are British Raj ethnographers unreliable?. utcursch | talk 14:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi man can you help me.[edit]

I've reached to you by seeing your Talk page. You are a wikipedia veteran and i need your help cuz i've joined wikipedia like recently. There's a person in the "Kshatriya" page . Who thinks he owns the page and reverts all the edits that are provided with source.

He thinks Yadavas are not Kshatriya while the word itself was first spoken by lord Krishna Vasudev Yadava in Mahabharat war. I and all other hindus knows that Yaduvanshi's are Kshatriya but that WIkipedian guy in Kshatriya page is against Krishna Yadavji and says Krishna was not Kshatriya

Here are the source for Yadavas are Kshatriya and they should be mentioned on the "Kshatriya" page on Wikipedia

Please help me putting yadavas on that page.

Yours thankful. Yash. (talk) 21:04, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, but the person who is undoing your changes is correct. You need to provide reliable sources for your additions. Caste websites like are not reliable sources by Wikipedia standards. A Wikipedia article should not be used as a reference for another Wikipedia article (see WP:CIRCULAR). utcursch | talk 21:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

I have the reliable source and information published in the book.[edit]

The lineage of Lord Krushna Yadava is not even mentioned in the Kshatriya page is the biggest insult to us Kshatriyas.

You want the book source of Yadavas are kshatriya? here's the link to the book for reference.

And here's the page where Yadavas are mentioned as Kshatriya.

Now add them to the Kshatriya page please... (talk) 07:29, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

@Yash Ahir: / You can add these to the article yourself. Please see Wikipedia:How to cite your sources. utcursch | talk 14:39, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Hey man i don't know how to do references. You know that so why are you not adding them?[edit] (talk) 15:11, 23 November 2017 (UTC) Please man i already have provided you with the proper reference links for Yadavas being kshatriyas. Why are you not adding them man? Don't you want them on that page? Is that the reason? You're a wikipedian and you're not uploading the data that should exist on wikipedia. Look i'm not an internet genius or expert like you that's why i'm asking you for that help. Please can you do it.? Please. (talk) 15:11, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

That article is currently not my area of interest. Please try Wikipedia:Requested edits instead. utcursch | talk 15:16, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

No time to add even a single word on Wikipedia?[edit] (talk) 15:25, 23 November 2017 (UTC) Hey man, with all the evidences i provided you for add some information on the page,and while you're still not helping a non wikipedia editor. I think you should remove the word "Friendly" and "India" from your user page. Cuz, you have no respect for both words or else you could have helped. Thanks for all your time you gave in replying me. I think i should go find some other "Friendly" people on Wikipedia to help me.

Again Thanks. Your fellow India Yash.

@Yash Ahir: / Please do your own homework. I'm not here to help you promote your caste. If you have time to leave so many messages on my talk page, surely, you can find a few minutes to submit an edit request. utcursch | talk 15:31, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

What did ya say? Promote my caste? i dont need no promotions for my caste.[edit] (talk) 19:20, 23 November 2017 (UTC) Haha, we need promotion from you? lol Lord Krushna promoted the Yadavas when he was born in our family. Chandragupt Maurya was born in my caste to promote it, Krushna Devraya, Arjun, Pandavas, Shivaji's Mother Jijabai, Jaisalmer Kingdom, Puru the blocker of your stupid Alexender The great, Lord Vishnu himself was born as Krushna in my caste. I don't need your permission to promote my caste. I gave ya the information and its reference to upload on the site and you puppet you have to do your damn job and upload it right now. Or else, wait for a legal file waiting on your doorsteps soon. You wanna know what happens when you mess with someone you can't handle? Meet you in canada soon. (talk) 19:20, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:No legal threats. utcursch | talk 19:24, 23 November 2017 (UTC)


Thanks for your thanks at Kshatriya about which there is now a discussion at User talk:Arjayay (same user, and same relies as in the post above) - If possible, could please I ask you to keep an eye on this (and any of the other articles we mutually watch} for a week, as I am about to go away - many thanks - Arjayay (talk) 21:18, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Sure, enjoy your break! utcursch | talk 21:20, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

References used on Page Ahluwalia[edit]

Hi Utcursch

Please keep the information on page Ahluwalia legitimate. The Book by Prof. Ganda Singh on Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia is for reference and not for copy paste. All the imaginary information has been removed from this page. For Your Information S. Sadho Singh married into Kalal family, he himself was an Ahluwalia not Kalal and according to the Indian Family system the children take forward the father's family name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RomanEmpireXX (talkcontribs) 05:35, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Replied at Talk:Ahluwalia#RomanEmpireXX's edits -- please keep the discussion there so that others can participate. utcursch | talk 14:39, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi Utcursch.. Sorry to say Sir but, Please stop using bogus references on page Ahluwalia. Clearly only you do is copy-paste, without doing your own research on the ground level. Please visit the city of Kapurthala and the royal house for accurate information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RomanEmpireXX (talkcontribs) 18:13, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

@RomanEmpireXX: I've replied at Talk:Ahluwalia#Utcursch Edit References. If you think any of the references are "bogus", feel free to discuss them at WP:RSN. utcursch | talk 18:19, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 November 2017[edit]

What are you talking about?[edit]

The article was about Yadav caste because the page is about Yadav caste lol are you high on weed or something? IndiaIsTheBest (talk) 17:04, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

@IndiaIsTheBest: Sorry, my edit summary was not clear. Your addition links to "Yadava" -- which is not same as the caste. Also, the source says that the Yadav caste claims Kshatriya descent. utcursch | talk 17:13, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Hey i think you don't get it...[edit]

Please visit this page. And get your facts right. IndiaIsTheBest (talk) 17:16, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

What specifically I "don't get"? utcursch | talk 17:19, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Haha, man you literally have some problems with these Yadavas[edit]

Bruh, after looking at your recent edit, i can clearly say you would differ the words Lord Rama and Lord Ram, Lord Shiva and Lord Shiv, Lord Ganesha and Lord Ganesh. Yadavs claiming Kshatriya clan after 20th century?? Haha, yeah i get it. King puru was not Yadav, Lord Krushna was not Yadav, King Ashoka the great was not Yadav, Pouras was not Yadav,etc etc... You're funny man. xD xD IndiaIsTheBest (talk) 17:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm not saying that. That's what the source added by you states. utcursch | talk 17:36, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Hey i'm gonna need yo' help.[edit]

What type of pages are eligile to be deleted? If you can reply me in simple words cuz i've already seeked the help from Wikipedia but i can't quite get it! Please reply ASAP. IndiaIsTheBest (talk) 15:00, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

@IndiaIsTheBest: See Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#List of criteria and Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion. utcursch | talk 15:06, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
okay look man, i read it already before you sent me links. That's the page i said i can't quite get it. Look, i don't know about that but there's a page which has like, so many contents in it but has only 2 refrences! I've checked the both references, one is outdated/not available. And second is just a name to a media article not even have provided link to that media article. And yes i'm 100% sure either the page should be deleted or Only 2 lines should be there on Wikipedia page which are being referred to the sources. What do you say? IndiaIsTheBest (talk) 15:14, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
@IndiaIsTheBest: If you think an article should be deleted, you can follow the steps at WP:BEFORE to nominate it for deletion. utcursch | talk 15:19, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


Without References, The Fake Mentioned Books by Radical Author against Sultan Alauddin Khilji, On the recent base of Padmavati (A Frictional Based Movie) has risen such Radicalnism among Groups of Rajputs. Amir Khusrau in his edition of Kuwatul Islami'ilm, Has written All of Authentic Narrations From Empire. Hence Let that edition Be Acceptable. Ibn Faqr (talk) 03:24, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

@Ibn Faqr: Assuming you are referring to this edit, historians like Banarsi Prasad Saksena, Mohammad Habib, Khaliq Ahmad Nizami, Kishori Saran Lal, R. C. Majumdar and Richard M. Eaton are not "fake" and "radical" authors by any standard. Please see WP:V and WP:RS. utcursch | talk 03:49, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message[edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg Hello, Utcursch. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


I would like to know where a user, who is repeatedly engaging in vandalism, is reported here on Wikipedia? This particular user needs to be blocked - Almeda64, 08:24, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

@Almeda64: You can report vandals to WP:AIV. Also check out WP:AN/EW for reporting edit warring that is not vandalism, and WP:ANI for reporting other incidents. utcursch | talk 14:27, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for the help! I would also like to know that is it alright to revert pages to versions which are years old? Especially if the current versions of those pages are perfectly sourced and written? This particular user keeps reverting pages to versions which are years old (which I definitely think is being done out of fan bias) for no apparent reason and is repeatedly removing sourced content for no reason. The old version of those pages are poorly sourced and written and filled with vandalism, wrong information, gibberish, and fan bias - Almeda64 (talk), 01:48, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
@Almeda64: If that user is doing this when there is no consensus to do so, it's not acceptable. You can try discussing this on the article's talk page, and drop a note at WP:AN/EW, if the user is indulging in edit warring. utcursch | talk 16:52, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Rajput in Maharashtra[edit]

Dear sir

You have not mentioned that Rajput also leave in maharashtra and they speak marathi.

Plz go through this link and update your page


Regards N P Patil Nppatil123 (talk) 05:08, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

@Nppatil123: I don't have a problem if you're adding content with reliable sources. Please note that the writings of the colonial ethnographers are not good sources. utcursch | talk 16:56, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 14[edit]

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Indo-Greek Kingdom, etc: the sock farm problem[edit]

@Utcursch: I see you have watched/edited Indo-Greek Kingdom article in past. The article has recently suffered a lot of problem editing by a sock farm. Wienerbund, पाटलिपुत्र, Beads and reels, etc.... all active in this article for at least the last few months are now blocked after an SPI. In my quick review of some edits, these accounts have distorted this and many other articles, using discredited/fringe/non-RS sources, or in some cases misrepresenting the sources and plugging in OR, or in some cases pushing the fringe as mainstream scholarship. There are other problems. I am tempted to revert way back, but the problem goes back several months and other editors have also contributed, which I hesitate reverting back per AGF. Do you know of tools or the best approach here? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 16:36, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

@Ms Sarah Welch: You can drop a note on the talk page about what you intend to do, and wait 3-4 days for others to raise objections or give suggestions. If no one objects, you can revert the sock edits. utcursch | talk 14:59, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:36, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 December 2017[edit]

Pratibha Patil Rajput[edit]

Former president of India Pratibha Patil is Rajput Who's mother tounge is Marathi. Nppatil123 (talk) 12:06, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Do you want to that information to the article Pratibha Patil? Please see Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources and Wikipedia:How to cite your sources. utcursch | talk 14:51, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Merry Christmas !!![edit]

CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 22:32, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Hello sir one help[edit]

In my article did not publish proberly can u publish my article sir pls. Machideva Samathi Karnataga (talk) 18:38, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

@Machideva Samathi Karnataga: Which article are you talking about? utcursch | talk 19:22, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Can i publish the article sir. Machideva Samathi Karnataga (talk) 14:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

@Machideva Samathi Karnataga: That list doesn't seem to meet the WP:LISTCRITERIA guideline, and only one reference explicitly mentions that the person was born in Dhobi caste. It will likely be merged into the article Dhobi unless you can expand it with reliably sourced content. utcursch | talk 15:57, 29 December 2017 (UTC)


I have tried to correct the mistake . If you read History books , inscriptions , ancient scriptures found , you will find that Emperor Vikramaditya & Bhoja were called as Pramar Kings ( in Sanskrit Language ) and not the Parmara . Parmara is a diluted form of Pramar . Another diluted name is Powar Or Ponwar . Pramar are later on called as Powar/ Ponwar/ Parmara in hindi Language . Parmara/ Powar/ Ponwar are not the castes , it is one clan . Please check History books , Gazetteers of India . Wrong information is not expected on wikipedia .If you need my help for book to refer . I can tell you . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kpowar (talkcontribs) 06:15, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't even know where to begin to offer suggestions. wp:COMPETENCE issues. Removes refs, doesn't add any of his own. What's he up to? Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 07:31, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

If you read page wp:Agnivansh and book : yadava 1982 page 34 , you will come to know Parmara are Ponwar . So you need to specify it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kpowar (talkcontribs)

@Kpowar: Please see Wikipedia:How to cite your sources. Also, Paramara is not a "diluted form" of Pramar/Parmar: the latter is a corruption resulting from schwa deletion in modern languages like Hindi. And modern castes claiming descent from ancient dynasties doesn't make the kings of those dynasties belong to these modern castes. utcursch | talk 14:28, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

@Utcursch: -- Dont think about castes . Powar or Ponwar or Parmara is a clan which was called as a Pramar in ancient times . I dont know what you have referred to write the page on Emperor Vikramaditya and Bhoj . Every where , it is written as Parmara or Ponwar . Refer , Imperial Gazetteer / district Gazetteer / History books . Please correct what is written . Incomplete History on Wikipedia is not expected .

Please refer , 1) 2) 3) 4) Kpowar (talk) 05:14, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Please see WP:HISTRS, and once again, Wikipedia:How to cite your sources. utcursch | talk 14:06, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

@Utcursch: --All wikipedia processes are complicated and not user friendly . Need to update .

I know you will not accept the change or correction . Above stated links of books are reliable sources and written after complete study. I can give you link of reliable Imperial Gazetteer and Government records . Actually you have referred such books those are not reliable and do not match with actual History . No matter , Truth will not change , but information is going to next generation by wikipedia in this matter Kpowar (talk) 08:55, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Bhima Koregaon[edit]

utcursch I have undone one of your edits that gives the statistics about the Indian soldiers that died during Bhima Koregaon battle. The two parts of Ambedkar's Writings and Speeches volume 17 do not state anywhere the number of people from each community. The only reference in the volume is this "The Mahars have been a martial people. The army of the East India Company which successfully fought against the army of the Peshwa was recruited from the Mahars. The last battle between the Peshwa and the British was fought at Koregaon in the Poona district. There is a column at Koregaon raised by the British to commemorate the battle. On the column are inscribed the names of the soldiers who fell in the battle on the side of the British. Nine out of ten names are of Mahars." Hemalataeditor (talk) 18:14, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

@Hemalataeditor: Here's a direct quote from page 5: "22 were Mahars or Parwaris (identified by their names endng with nak), 16 were Marathas, 8 were Raputs, two were Muslims, and one or two were probably Indian Jews". You can find the quote on Google Books as well. I'll add the quote to the article ref as well. utcursch | talk 18:17, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Please have a look at the whole documents of Volume 17 part 1 and part 2. I have attached the links here. Volume 17 part one: Volume 17 part two: Hemalataeditor (talk) 18:29, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

@Hemalataeditor: I'm not sure what your point is. I've already provided a link to Google Books search result. There is a direct quote on page 5. Maybe you have a different edition? utcursch | talk 18:33, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Battle of Koregaon Edit[edit]

Please explain why the edit in the section regarding significance about Battle of Koregaon referring to the clashes on January 1 / 2018 was removed. This is a current event with multiple documented sources — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ayonpradhan (talkcontribs) 18:22, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

@Ayonpradhan: I haven't removed that section: User:Hemalataeditor did. utcursch | talk 18:24, 2 January 2018 (UTC)


I will add reliable source and retain my amendment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cuziyam (talkcontribs) 14:19, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Kenichi Yamamoto (engineer)[edit]

Please read Ahluwalia Talk Page[edit]

Thanks KingG1001 (talk) 13:59, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk: kumari kandam[edit]

hello mr. utkarsh, the article on kumari kandam is very demeaning to tamilians as a whole and looks like it is portraying tamils as a desperate culture who wants to prove themselves the oldest, contrary to that, there is no need to prove that our culture is being lost as we speak, but the article surely looks towards defamation of the tamils and their heritage

a lot of words are delicately used to manipulate the mind of the reader to subconsciously think that tamils are hoaxers and an article must be impartial and factual, not at all should it be inclining towards favoritism or bias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashywolf (talkcontribs) 17:38, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

@Ashywolf: The article doesn't state anything like that about Tamils in general. Using reliable sources, it outlines why why a section of Tamil writers tried to present the myth of Kumari Kandam as history. utcursch | talk 18:42, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Alauddin in Gujarat[edit]

Hello, recently I saw your contributions to Alauddin Khalji's conquest of Gujarat. However, a quote you added The Muhammadan forces began to kill and slaughter, on the right and on the left unmercifully, throughout the impure land, for the sake of Islam, and blood flowed in torrents is placed chronologically wrong as before Somnath's conquest and destruction in Tarikh-i-Wassaf of Wassaf, where your quotes are from.

Even the other quote starting with They took captive a great number of handsome and elegant maidens amounting to 20,000, and children of both sexes, more than the pen can enumerate [...] is placed chronologically wrong.

This quote has been placed before Somnath. However, the quote is actually about Conquest of Somnath per Wassaf whom it is from. The quote is on page 43 of the it's translation. But the page right before that, ie page 42 makes it clear, the section is about Conquest of Somnath, not Aladdin's earlier battles before Somnath.

The problem seems to be that the source you added it from The History and Culture of the Indian People - page 625 - by R.C. Majumdar is very vague and doesn't mention the exact event in the Gujarat conquest this quote is related with in the original source of Wassaf it quotes from. The source is not unreliable, however your edits are historically and chronologically inaccurate. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 10:25, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

@MonsterHunter32: Feel free to update the article with sources. This is better discussed on the article's talk page. utcursch | talk 17:38, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Ultcursch I came to you since you are the major contributor and added it. But I'll try to update and correct it. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 21:32, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Poorly written[edit]

I am surprised how poorly the article of Alauddin Khalji's Gujarat conquest is written. Words are added by self to statements from the historical chronolicles, while the best practice will be scholarly opinion to avoid any possible OR. I have changed this so it reflects the language of reliable sources and not our own. Most surprising is that this article is directly using primary sources like translations of the historical accounts. Secondary sources should be preferred. Even something as unimportant as a jasper stone is mentioned with a primary source.

I am not blaming you. But regardless of whoever added them, you didn't try to correct it. That an administrator is so improperly editing an article and not noticing the shortcomings, I am surprised. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 10:24, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

(talk page watcher)MH32, does being a sysop comes with an added burden that every mistake in an article, he/she touches, ought to be ammended?!...Just curious....Winged BladesGodric 10:47, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Everyone makes mistakes. But there's a difference between mistake and using primary sources or adding your own words to historical statements (possible OR). As a sysop, he should know how to properly edit an article. Admins are supposed to be an example to others. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 10:54, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
That said do not mistake him of me blaming him any bad intention. His intention is good. But the article is poorly written. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 11:01, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Like I said earlier, any issues with the article are best discussed on the article's talk page. But I'll reply here for the record.
Your assertion above that "the quote is actually about Conquest of Somnath per Wassaf" is incorrect. You've been misled by the title of the section (The Conquest of Somnat) in Elliot's translation. An actual reading of the section (and the secondary sources) makes it obvious that the section describes not only the attack on Somnath, but on multiple cities, including "Kambayat" (i.e. Khambhat). Elliot has probably chosen the section title because of Somnath's significance.
As for the primary sources, the version before your edits contains 31 citations, only one of which is a primary source (a translation of Wassaf's book). This source was used to cite two statements (about the invaders obtaining a jasper-coloured stone and paving mosque fragments), which were not covered by the secondary sources present in the article. Wherever the article quotes a medieval chronicler, it does so without any changes to the original quote, and cites secondary sources (which quote those chroniclers as well, because sometimes, trying to explain things in one's own words may be controversial or confusing). I'm not sure what you mean by "Words are added by self to statements from the historical chronolicles"). For example, in this edit, you deleted "According to Wassaf, Alauddin invaded Gujarat because...", calling it a "self-comment". However, the cited source (a history book) explicitly discusses the motives behind Alauddin Khalji's campaign, citing Wassaf.
Overall, your edits have been helpful -- thanks for that. Some of your edits have introduced incomplete citations (e.g. a journal articles without the title of the article or the author's name[1][2]), incorrect citations[3], duplicate content[4] etc. Also, the bit about Malik al-Akabir Balchaq and Malik al-Umara Shadi is chronologically out-of-place. I'll try to fix these problems.
Let's continue the discussion on the article's talk page. Remember Wikipedia is a work in progress. utcursch | talk 20:41, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
I already realized some of it is not about Somnath. That's because the historical account is quite muddy. However, only Cambay or "Khambayat" is described and no other city is mentioned by name, Cambay seems to be clearly the scene of the surprise attack of Khilji army and statements of killing and slaughtering on left and right and the plunder. Probably some other events too, but some of them also clearly seem to have been about plunder of Somnath. Only once other cities are alluded to, but not by name.
However, while notifying me, it seems you haven't noticed that I separated some of the content of the invasion from Somnath where it was clear it was not about desecration/plunder of Somnath. Most of all, while you are telling this to me, you yourself didn't notice earlier that Wassaf is not talking exclusively about Somnath, but Cambay as well.
Additionally R.C. Majumdar does not use Wassaf's statement in his reason. While he does say Muslim campaigns were anti-Hindu sometimes besides being political, he does not say that the campaign was for holy war and not lust of conquest. That's why I removed it and replaced it with a reliable source that does explicitly use the "holy war and not lust for conquest" as a reason.
Journals usually don't have one author, and I had to sometimes view them on Google Snippet. I couldn't always look for the author of that particular part. I didn't leave it out on purpose nor the titles. But some journals I have viewed personally. I'll add author and part. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 00:34, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Also I added Balchaq because it could have been seen as excuse for another invasion. But most of all, it was the part about when Khiljis trie to actually annexe Gujarat, shedding light on their two invasions. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 00:37, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Last of all I didn't incorrectly cite here, the citation was correct and I had read the part about Somnath and 20,000 maidens on page 148 of KS Lal's 1999 book. There is also no duplicate content [here. If you are reffering to The Muslims began to kill and slaughter, on the right and on the left unmercifully, some authors have used it directly or indirectly even to refer to the attack on Cambay (Kambayat), though RC Majumdar uses it generally for Gujarat invasion without specifying Cambay. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 01:24, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 11[edit]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Alauddin Khalji's conquest of Gujarat, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hammira (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

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Just sounding you out, if I may. Category:Indian rebels and Category:Indian revolutionaries. Some people are in both but in any event can you perceive any logic in maintaining both and, if so, how do we decide where to put them? - Sitush (talk) 20:23, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

@Sitush: Frankly, I can't claim to be an expert on this one. We've revolution and rebellion, and also Category:Rebels by nationality and Category:Revolutionaries by nationality. This is best decided on a case-by-case basis for each article. utcursch | talk 20:29, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I noticed In political terms, rebellion and revolt are often distinguished by their different aims. If rebellion generally seeks to evade an oppressive power, a revolt seeks to overthrow and destroy that power, as well as its accompanying laws. The goal of rebellion is resistance while a revolt seeks a revolution at one of those two articles ... but it had a {{cn}} next to it! Category:Revolutionaries says it is for "political revolutionaries", as opposed to ... I've no idea what! Industrial revolutionists? I see the merit in the case-by-case approach but without some sort of fundamental definition even that becomes haphazard. I will have a think. The last thing I want to do is take this to the category specialists because they tend to drive me daft (or perhaps dafter). Thanks for the input. - Sitush (talk) 21:37, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Wikigraphists Bootcamp (2018 India)[edit]


It is being planned to organize Wikigraphists Bootcamp in India, please fill out the survey form to help the organizers. Your responses will help organizers understand what level of demand there is for the event (how many people in your community think it is important that the event happens). At the end of the day, the participants will turn out to have knowledge to create drawings, illustrations, diagrams, maps, graphs, bar charts etc. and get to know to how to tune the images to meet the QI and FP criteria. For more information and link to survey form, please visit Talk:Wikigraphists Bootcamp (2018 India). MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:46, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 January 2018[edit]

Adding to image[edit]

Hi User:Utcursch, would you be able to add an image of the Telltale video game version of the character to the collage image of Paul "Jesus" Monroe, if your not too busy, please? Like the one for Glenn Rhee. Or if you'd rather make a new collage please let me know, thanks. Theo (contribs) 00:49, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@Theo Mandela: You can request this at Wikipedia:Graphics Lab. Sorry, I'm a little occupied right now. utcursch | talk 15:59, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


Hello, can you please advise if this reference is acceptable for roti? For this edit[1](2600:1001:B027:C196:C91B:8535:3CB8:1C87 (talk) 01:29, 26 January 2018 (UTC))


I would like to know if would be acceptable for the article. And nope, I am not the anon here above. - Takeaway (talk) 02:27, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
@Takeaway: / IP: Talk:Roti#Origin (or WP:RSN, if needed) is a better place for discussing this, so that other editors can participate. Maybe drop a note at WT:IND. utcursch | talk 15:07, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Pandyan dynasty[edit]

Hi :@Utcursch:, Can you have a look on Pandyan Dynasty. There is some issue going on with common languages. It is being discussed under Talk page aggi007(talk) 09:21, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 5 February 2018[edit]


Hi User:Utcursch I humble request to you. can you check the data in article Jaiswal Brahmin. There is maximum data without reference. Can you please remove unsourced data. Atrisomkshraj (talk) 05:03, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Looks like User:Onel5969 has taken care of this. utcursch | talk 16:06, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Supporting Indian Wikipedia Program resource distribution[edit]

In 2017 - 2018, the Wikimedia Foundation and Google working in close coordination with the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS), Wikimedia India chapter (WMIN) and user groups will pilot a program encouraging Wikipedia communities to create locally relevant and high-quality content in Indian languages. This program (Code name: Project Tiger) will:

(a) Support active and experienced Wikipedia editors through the donation of laptops and stipends for internet access and
(b) Sponsor a language-based contest that aims to address existing Wikipedia content gaps.

The objective of the program is to provide laptops and internet stipends for existing editors who need support to contribute more actively. 50 basic model Acer Chromebooks and Internet stipends for 100 contributors are available for distribution. Provided resources are the sole property of the beneficiaries and should be used for the betterment of the movement.

If you're an active Wikimedian, and interested to receive support from this project, please apply. It will take around 10 minutes of your time, and will ask descriptive questions about your contribution to Indic Wikimedia projects.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:12, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


Hello Utcursch. In article Rai Bahadur Thakur Jaiswal does't have valid references and unsourced data. I think this article showing wrong information to public. Its my humble request to you please remove unsourced data. Atrisomkshraj (talk) 09:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Atrisomkshraj: You can yourself remove any unsourced content from such articles in accordance with WP:BURDEN. You can also add tags like {{unreferenced}}, {{no footnotes}}, and {{citation needed}} to request sources. utcursch | talk 19:56, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Alauddin Khalji article[edit]

I've already mentioned this on the Alauddin Khalji talk page but received no response. The "Early life" and "Personal life" sections contain the same info currently regarding Alauddin's first two marriages. Also, if there is a "Personal life" section then why are his marriages discussed here? But if this info is placed in the "Personal life" section then this statment: This, combined with his unhappy domestic life, made Alauddin determined to dethrone Jalaluddin in the next section "Governor of Kara" does not make any sense because Alauddin's troubled domestic life has not been described. The chronology of events is being affected since you added the "Personal life" section.

I think it's important to give info on Alauddin's unhappy domestic life in the "Early life" section because it was one of the major reasons why he rebelled against Jalaluddin. A solution to this would be to describe Alauddin's first two marriages in the "Early life" section and his marriages to Kamaladevi and Jhatyapali can be mentioned in the sections "Mongol invasions and northern conquests, 1297-1306" and "Marwar and southern campaigns, 1307-1313", when they occurred respectively. As it is, those marriages happened in connection with the raids on these places. As for the Kafur info, it should be mentioned in the sections "Mongol invasions and northern conquests, 1297-1306" and "Last days" section. - Almeda64 (talk) 10:21, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

@Almeda64: My reorganization was to address concerns of User:Human10.0, who has replied to your comments on the talk page. I don't have a problem with presence or absence of a "Personal life" section -- my only concern was that an entire subsection on the supposed relationship between Alauddin and Kafur is undue, because it has not been given significant coverage in authoritative history books about Alauddin. utcursch | talk 19:54, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
@Utcursch: I completely agree with you. An entire subsection on Kafur and Alauddin's "supposed" relationship is completely unwarranted. Thanks for clearing this up. - Almeda64 talk 14:36, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Kadambas of Goa[edit]

whats going on with

Kadambas of goa if they are Velliapura

why you are  deleting pics

--Decan.reporter (talk) 21:18, 15 February 2018 (UTC)Decan.reporter (talk) 21:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

You are adding unsourced or poorly-sourced content to the article, which is not acceptable. Feel free to make these changes with a reliable source. utcursch | talk 21:19, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

so why are you deleting pics ?Decan.reporter (talk) 21:21, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

@Decan.reporter: I could upload my pic on the page, and claim that I'm a descendant of the Kadamba royals. WP:V policy stops me from doing that. You need to specify a reliable source which states that (1) these pictures are of who you claim them to be of (2) these people are actually connected to the Kadambas of Goa. utcursch | talk 21:25, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Why would I put some bodies pic and claim it to be 'Varis of Valliapura '? or member of Velliapura royal family. Thousands of people from that area who read would have objected if those pics are of some body else. did you come across any such objection? ...and would my account still be alive on Wikipedia. very damaging Decan.reporter (talk) 15:50, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Please see WP:BURDEN. utcursch | talk 21:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)


Hi Utcursch .I think that you know Babu was from Andijan from dynasty of Tamerlan[Timurid].and I want you to know that he didn't begin mughal empire. He began his own empire The Great Baburiys empire.He was and will be from Uzbeks not Mughal.I'm uzbek too and i don't want to think wrong about my fellow countryman.😊 Yasrib (talk) 16:30, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

@Yasrib: Please see WP:V -- you need to cite a reliable source for every change that you're making. utcursch | talk 21:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)


Narendra Keshav Sawaikar[edit]

utcursch please check this Narendra Keshav Sawaikar the whole article is on this goanet link, can you bring it done like how you bring down mine? Decan.reporter (talk) 19:11, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I've added {{Citations broken}} to the article. It has other citations, though. utcursch | talk 21:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

took help and linked all published citations[edit]

To Utcursch Sir, took help and linked all published or acadamic or Govt Gazetteer citations Thanks Decan.reporter (talk) 19:53, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

@Decan.reporter: Sorry, but some of your latest additions do not pass WP:V standards.
For example, in this edit, you added the following three links to support the assertion that "Sajayadeva was pronounced as the 42nd successor to this Kadamba history":
None of these sources seem to mention "Sajayadeva".
Please provide a page number and a quote. utcursch | talk 21:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)


Narendra Keshav Sawaikar[edit]

utcursch please check this Narendra Keshav Sawaikar the whole article is on this goanet link, can you bring it done like how you bring down mine? Decan.reporter (talk) 19:11, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I've added {{Citations broken}} to the article. It has other citations, though. utcursch | talk 21:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Utcursch Sir reg I don't understand. I have no objection of other citations. I ask you why you are not deleting the information which is under citation like how you deleted my writings based on Decan.reporter (talk) 18:16, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Because unlike your additions about the purported Kadamba royals, the information doesn't look like far-fetched, and other citations supporting it can be easily found. Feel free to remove the information yourself, though. utcursch | talk 03:10, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

To Utcursch. Dear Sir, I have no power here to edit ....even if I edeit some body senior like you will may allow them to be there.... I have come across hundreds of source information in hundred of artilcle. only person who deleted is mine. at present I was working on Goan royals ...but you discourage me by deleting all my work... so much waste of my time.... If I work on other Decan royals and and again you delete .... in my own way I was doing some little thing by introducing to bring royals out to involve them in some social work, benefiting the poor, this royals attract lot of crowds and this brings in sponsors for an event. other wise they are in their palaces with so much wealth. Decan.reporter (talk) 15:11, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

@Decan.reporter: You cited mailing list messages (e.g. this one hosted on Several of the citations added by you do not support the content you're adding.
The article Narendra Keshav Sawaikar includes citations from (The Goan newspaper), which are now dead links. The content supported by these dead links is easily verifiable through other sources.
There is a huge difference between the two scenarios. utcursch | talk 20:43, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 February 2018[edit]