Talk:John S. Mosby

Why I made the change

One line initally said that on December 23, 1853 Mosby was pardoned "as a Christmas present." I removed the Christmas present comment because Christmas was not celebrated in the United States until 1870, when President Grant made it an official holiday.

You're joking, right? Christmas has been celebrated for many centuries. A federal holiday merely allows government workers a day off with pay and has no direct effect on the celebration of a religious holiday (which it was when Mosby was pardoned). Hal Jespersen 02:18, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Are you assuming it was a "Christmas present" or is there evidence that it was? As an historian I don't like assumptions. Not everyone celebrated Christmas. Puritans saw its origins and refused to celebrate it. There was (and still is) a lot of religious ferver in rural Virginia (where I live). If the govenor granted the pardon as a gift there must be some record. If not, please ask yourself it it is you assumption, if it is, you should remove that line. Assumption like this are what taint true histories. If it was in fact a "Christmas gift" then so be it, but there has to be evidence to support that claim. I'm just being a historical purist.

I find it odd that there is no mention of the fact that the guerilla outfit Mosby led was completely mounted. And another thing that was not mentionned in the article. Mosby's cavalry mainly used Colt revolvers instead of sabres or lances that were the primary weapons of other cavalry units at the time. 209.221.73.5 18:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to investigate that about puritans not celebrating Christmas. I'm no expert but I'd say that it is quite probable they did not celebrate Christmas. Christ/mass would definitely have too many catholic overtones.

Prior to the Victorian era, Christmas in the United States was primarily a religious holiday observed by Episcopalians, Roman Catholics, and Lutherans. Its importance was often considered secondary to Epiphany and Easter.

As was the case with other Christian holidays, Christmas borrowed elements from pagan peoples, including yule logs, decorations such as candles, holly, and mistletoe. Christmas trees were sometimes seen as pagan in origin. Cited as proof is Jeremiah, 10:3-4, which states, "For the customs of the peoples are false: a tree from the forest is cut down, and worked with an ax by the hands of an artisan. People deck it with silver and gold they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move." The Advent period (originally a fasting period meant to point to the Second coming of Christ), and gift giving (invented by Martin Luther to counter St. Nicholas Day, 6th of December) were also often seen as pagan in origin.

During the various Protestant reformations, these (real or supposed) paganizing elements were a source of controversy. Some sects, such as the Puritans, rejected Christmas as an entirely pagan holiday. Others rejected certain aspects of Christmas as paganizing, but wanted to retain the "essence" of the holiday as a celebration of the Christ's birth. This tension put in motion an ongoing debate about the proper observance of Christmas. [1]

--Jason1980athotmail (talk) 02:49, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

True or Not True?

I have read somewhere that Lewis Powell, the Lincoln assassin conspirator, was somehow affiliated with Mosby's Rangers. Any truth to this? Dr. Dan 16:38, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Release details?

It says he was captured and imprisoned for ten days. Was he exchanged? Did he escape? Clarityfiend 21:01, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Exchanged. Hal Jespersen 00:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Executing Prisoners in Retalliation for Custer Killing Prisoners

The History Channel had a special on him and mentioned that out of a large number of prisoners, seven were selected to die by passing a hat around with marked strips of paper. Some were to be shot, others hanged, in direct proportion to how Mosby's men died. Some of the ones who were shot survived and were allowed to return to Federal lines as a warning. This should probably be included. I didn't make the edit directly because I don't have all the facts marshalled together.

Reply: The above account was broadly confirmed by Ed Bearss (see Wikipedia article), the former Chief Historian of the National Park Service, who now conducts the Smithsonian's Civil War tours. I have edited this section of the article, which previously spoke of Mosby threatening retaliation but never carrying it out, directly in line with Bearss's commentary (three hanged, two shot but not killed, two escaped). Bearss, incidentally, questions whether the Union forces who had executed Mosby's men did in fact come from Custer's unit (though Mosby himself evidently believed this and held it against Custer).Nandt1 12:35, 25 September 2006 (UTC)Nandt1.

Addendum: Another contributor ("Virginian") subsequently changed the main article's discussion of these events to state that none of Mosby's prisoners was in the event executed following the "lottery of death". This version flatly contradicts Ed Bearss's account of these events (see above), a version that is also fully endorsed by the detailed scholarly article by Major William E. Boyle from Military Law Review, which I have now cited in the main article. If other contributors to Wikipedia wish to insert references to alternative theories of what happened, it is respectfully suggested that they provide scholarly citations for their rival accounts, explain their objections to the above version within these discussion pages, and acknowledge within the text of the main article that significant scholarly work supports the account that three men were hanged and two shot and left for dead. Nandt1. 4 January, 2007.

anomaly

Note: many sources state, to the contrary, that Mosby executed a comparable number of Custer's men -- this anomaly in the article needs to be resolved authoritatively. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.110.25.157 (talk • contribs)

Reply: See note above. Nandt1 12:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)Nandt1 why is donovan so weird?

Monuments & Memorials

Mullhawk (talk) 22:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Partisan or Regular?

Please review the intro paragraph, which I've re-couched, and included a link to his Battalion command (the 43rd Virginia Cavalry). Mosby and his men were regulars in the Confederate Army, not partisans. His unit, the 43rd, did use guerilla or commando type tactics. It's a far stretch to say that he used "partisan" tactics, but I left that part in. It's also a far stretch to say that he used "ranger" tactics, but I left that in too, due to the fact of the nickname for the Battalion. But militarily speaking, he used purely commando tactics. It is incorrect to say that his Battalion was an actual partisan unit because a partisan unit is made up of ... partisans ... not regular forces enlisted properly the roll calls and records of the CS Army. Similarly today the SEALS, the Green Berets, Delta Force, the Marines, etc are not "partisan" forces even though they may employ either uncoventional methods, or conduct conduct commando-type raids. The British Marines use the correct title of Royal Commando for their units, for example. Anyway, for future contributors, please be aware of the differences.

Regards to all, Grayghost01 (talk) 03:30, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Escape of two prisoners

A contributor recently suggested that the two Union prisoners who managed to escape execution at the hands of Mosby's men did so "presumably with the assistance of their would-be executioners". This presumption is, however, entirely speculative and not supported by Major Boyle's scholarly account. In one of the two cases, the executioner's pistol misfired, and the prisoner took advantage of the situation to strike his captor and run for it. No indication of collusion here. The other case is less well-explained ("at some point in the trek" it is reported, the prisoner escaped), but these is no indication of any collusion here either. On this basis, I have removed the speculative and unsupported statement from the Wikipedia article.Nandt1 (talk) 02:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)