Talk:Vince Carter

who put half-man half-season? u think your funny? pls add height and weight (in metric besides british)

What is this stuff about "Wallabies" and scoring 3 points on April 15, 2005?

--Benl47 10:58, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I realized the page has been vandalized by some douche, so I tried to revert a few bits back to normal.

--Benl47 11:05, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Objectivity please, this is not a press release nor a rumor mill, it's an encyclopedia.

So-called "dunk of death"

If I'm not mistaken, "le dunk de la mort" is actually a generic term the French basketball aficionados would affix on any impressive dunk they see fit--kind of how on ESPN one anchor might go "ooooh that's one ba-zoo-ka dunk" or something to that effect, which doesn't render it _the_ bazooka dunk. I have removed this reference and someone added it back, rather than get into a stupid edit war, for the moment I want to ask does anyone preferably with familiarity in French basketball (I speak French, but certainly don't follow their basketball broadcasts) possess any further insights on the origins of the term.

I think the generic-ness of the term is easily veriable, if one just go to Yahoo France and search on "dunk de la mort", many pages will come up and vast majority would have nothing to do with the Carter dunk. Tendancer 00:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

New Name For "le dunk de la mort —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.97.172.50 (talk) 09:37, 4 January 2008 (UTC) Why don't we all just rename it 'French Toast' I read it somewhere and it sounds alot better.

College?

Could we also add some information about his college play? He went to UNC and how he fared there is of interest to most people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.142.2.138 (talk) 20:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

Collegiate career

Carter played college basketball at North Carolina under Dean Smith and later, Bill Guthridge. During the 1997-1998 season, he was a member of new coach Bill Guthridge's successful "Six Starters" rotation with Antawn Jamison, Shammond Williams, Ed Cota, Ademola Okulaja and Makhtar N'Diaye. That season (his final college season), he averaged 15.6 points and 5.1 rebounds per game to go along with career averages of 12.3 points and 4.5 rebounds per game.

Carter also became a pioneer of the internet during his collegiate career. In 1995, Vince Carter become the second collegiate athlete (after Shammond Williams) to have a website dedicated to him on the World Wide Web. The website was developed by Seth Fleishman, and an archive of "Vince's Court" is still available for viewing. 18:08, 19 October 2007 (UTC) UNC Fan

Vince Carter

Just noticed that someone has VANDALIZED this bio. Went to edit the inflammatory bits out, but could not. Maybe somebody else can restore it to dignity. (brackman@verizon.net) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.98.255.213 (talk) 15:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

Added info on the new statue in Daytona, just unveilled. 67.35.172.19 00:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe it was vandlalized because Carter is a crybaby jackass who has seen a major decline in popularity since leaving Toronto (just look at All-Star vote tallies for before and after he left the Raptors).159.33.10.92 17:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)Steve159.33.10.92 17:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC) He is on Magic now

Position

Vince doesn't play forward anymore he's started only 1 game there this year and about 3 last year. He is pretty much a full shooting guard. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RandyRhoadsRonnieDio (talk • contribs).

I agree. I change it to shooting guard (swingman) Kassie 18:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I have a mixed opinion on this because while it’s probably true that Carter now starts virtually all his games as a shooting guard, it contradicts all of the following sources: ESPN, AOL, Yahoo!, FOX, Sportsnet, and InsideHoops. The position on Carter’s NBA playerfile suddenly disappeared, but it was there as Guard-Forward in the past.[1]. Because I can’t find a source indicating that he’s a full shooting guard, I’d rather stick on the safe side with Guard-Forward. —LOL 19:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

If we're going with positions he plays but doesn't start at than I'll add point guard because Frank does run line ups without Williams or Kidd and carter often handles the ball up the court and sets up his teammates. That also does not contradict the guard-forward position. Since someone changed it to shooting guard/small forward I figured I'd add point guard because he plays that as often as small forward.

Subjective gatekeepers

This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a cheerleading section. If I make a contribution that one of Vince's nicknames is "Wince Carter", it's a matter of fact, not opinion, and shouldn't be obscured or hidden just because you like Vince. Do a search on the internet for "wince carter" and see how many hits come up, see how any people know the name, and use the name (and not just Raptor fans, either). Given the comments above and another user's description of Vince as a "crybaby jackass", the relatively benign "Wince" is generous.

But, some of you Carter fans refuse to face reality and allow the article to reflect the reality you are refusing. Unfortunately, wikipedia will suffer and never be as authentic and respected a source of information as long as self-appointed apologists lurk around and reverse legitimate contributions just because the contributions may not reflect their biased subjective positions.

Reverse the edits all you like, the truth is still out there to be found:

• that Vince had to have his mommy taking care of his business because he isn't a man
• that some of his peers, players that are also NBA professionals, don't respect him because he doesn't bring it every game, every shift
• that his rolling around on the floor (from whence he EARNED the nickname "Wince") baffles guys like Allen Iverson and Kevin Garnett who play hard and take it inside all game long and somehow, miraculously, live to tell about it
• that his all-star voting doesn't get him top spot anymore since it became known how much of a punk he really is. Don't blame me, all those fans wouldn't just up and quit voting for him if he still had game and demonstrated respect for the game and his colleagues.

This is what he appears not to understand - having game, having natural talent, isn't good enough. Attitude, commitment, work ethic, these are issues that matter at his level. If he ever learns this, surely fans wil embrace him as they have other troubled characters like AI or Rasheed Wallace. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.116.215.206 (talk) 20:08, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Mister anonymous, you continue your raves and rants here when you have no respect for the rules of Wikipedia. Since you have no respect for the rules (read: provision of citations/sources/references), it is most shocking you expect people to respect your contributions. If they can be called contributions, considering you denigrate much more esteemed contributions. Chensiyuan 14:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

You can't provide a single example of my denigrating one other contribution because it hasn't happened, and it won't happen because I wouldn't do it. We're talking about whether or not to include a fact regardless of how one feels about the subject at hand. Say what you want, that nickname is a fact.

Pleasant is the silence of everyone ignoring you. Chensiyuan 17:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Someone at the Nets-Raptors game last night had a sign that read "Mommy isn't here, Vince" - hmm, I guess I must have told him to write that since I'm making all this stuff up, right? 208.72.4.1 13:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

You don't get it do you. The whole world knows VC is hated at Toronto. He is called all manner of names. But this is an encylopedia. If you want to provide a nickname which is undoubtedly derogatory, you have to provide a PROPER CITATION. A google search RESULT with a few hits is not a proper citation. You don't like the system, too bad. Chensiyuan 13:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Who said you were making all this stuff up? The “truth” and “fact” are simply of questionable notability because you still have not provided any legitimate references. Please read WP:V and WP:REF, and give us some reputable sources indicating that Vince “isn't a man”, that his peers “don’t respect him”, that his rolling “baffles” Iverson and Garnett, etc. —LOL 20:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/griggman/tag/NBA - this article shows a journalist refer to him as "wince" not once but twice. Also, I'm not a journalist so I can't hide behind "I can't reveal my sources", but I can't reveal my sources for the issue of peers who don't respect him or contrast his commitment to the likes of other players that are generally highly regarded.

http://heat.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5700037552/m/6970047384 Here's a forum comment of a Miami Heat fan saying he doesn't want "Wince Carter here to choke away games and not show up for big games". And there are tons of them where people out there use these specific terms to refer to Vince Carter.

Thanks for finally providing sources, but unfortunately blogs and forum comments are not legitimate sources. See WP:V#Self-published sources (online and paper). (It should be obvious why they aren’t allowed, because any random zealot can blog and post.) —LOL 20:50, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey mate, I can understand what you are attempting to say, the rules are the rules. I just wanted some clarity between defending rules for rules sake and defending a person with a sense of bias. Insofar as a "whole is greater than the sum of its parts", the reality that Vince Carter has a reputation and a nickname that are not complimentary may not be citable with some academic source, but with the plethora of information "out there", a reasonable person will arrive at the conclusion that, of all the players ever to play basketball in the NBA, only one player has somehow manages to end up having this nickname attached to him, for whatever reason, whether justified or otherwise. Anyway, for all intents and purposes, short of orthodox sources, I won't push it with this issue in the main article any further. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.72.4.1 (talk) 14:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

This section really is pathetic. It's full of elaborate justifications for why some of you just don't want any negativity about a player you like. Don't pretend you're just being rational and objective. If a Google search result shows a lot of people calling him "Wince," it is PLAINLY OBVIOUS that "Wince" is one of his nicknames. Furthermore, the blog entry provided above isn't some random guy's blog; it's the Sporting News, which posts blog entries from sportswriters, not just disgruntled fans. I'm tempted to change the entry, but it's obvious my changes will be undone by defensive Carter fan hiding behind a mask of objective and responsible editing.Dantès (talk) 21:41, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Remember to always assume good faith. Your edit was undone for a simple, good reason - your edit inserted the classic weasel words, "widely viewed", which is a type of claim that's too vague to be denied or verified, and should always be avoided. Keep in mind that Wikipedia isn't interested in "truth" or "The Truth" or their variants, but simple, inarguable and verified facts. --Mosmof (talk) 22:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

That, of course, it why I included three citations, many of which cited numerous examples of fan and media discontent. Cumulatively, that would support the words "widely viewed." However, even if you choose to take issue with that phrase, you could have simply rephrased it instead of deleting it. The fact that you chose to completely delete something with several supporting citations indicates that you're unwilling to include unflattering information about Carter, not that you're concerned with proper encyclopedic content. With that in mind, I've undone your edit and slightly modified my own contribution. If you read the citations I provide, you'll find they actually back up my contribution. If you delete it again, you're unequivocally proving a bias. Dantès (talk) 21:38, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I think you missed my point. First, yes, I do take issue with the phrase because weasel words should always be avoided. And simply listing multiple sources to support your claim of "widely viewed" is, as I said in the edit summary, WP:SYNTH, reaching your conclusion based on your interpretation of a source, or a collection of sources. Mosmof (talk) 22:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

You really should READ contributions before deleting them. In my re-write, I changed "widely viewed" to more neutral language. Clearly, you are deleting things without reading them, which is just lazy and irresponsible editing. Had you checked it before deleting, you'd know that. Furthermore, you clearly are not reading the citations before disregarding them, because there is no "interpretation" to be found. The articles expressly refer to fans booing Carter for quitting on the team, and at least one of the articles literally says "Carter quit on the team." These are not my conclusions. They are clearly stated in the articles. I have provided verifiable sources that clearly back up my contribution. I'm re-instating my edit and unless you're willing to edit properly, you should leave it alone.Dantès (talk) 23:05, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

And incidentally, your definition of "weasel words" is nonsensical here. As the articles prove, a great many fans dislike Carter for his lack of effort and sportswriters feel the same. Naturally, it is impossible to specify the exact number of fans who feel that way and the same is true of sportswriters. "Many" is an entirely reasonable word to use and if you disagree, suggest a better word, as a proper editor would. You cannot completely remove this reference to a well-known and well-documented phenomenon because of some arguable wording. To do it is, again, obvious bias. Dantès (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

You're using one or multiple opinion pieces to advance your conclusion that Carter is "widely viewed" by "many" sportswriters and fans", even if it a reasonable conclusion, is still your synthesis. Rather than making judgments about my motivation or bias please take the time to read WP:WEASEL. Your phrasing is a classic case of weasel words.

Here's a suggestion - don't talk about what "many" fans and sportswriters think (you know, "many" people think the Holocaust is a myth, and "some" believe Michael and LaToya Jackson are the same person - this is why you don't want to make statements about the opinions of "some" or "many" people), or what is "widely regarded" (which is impossible to verify). Instead, how about picking a prominent Toronto sportswriter or a former teammate or coach who said, "Carter is a quitter, fans hate his guts"? That way, you can say XXX said "Carter is a quitter, fans hate his guts". Because while the assertion is still a matter of opinion, the writer making that statement is a verifiable fact. Do you see the difference? Mosmof (talk) 23:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't need to make judgments about your bias because it's plain to see. Why else are you so strict about my negative contribution about Carter, but you have allowed almost an entire paragraph of unverified information that exonerates Carter regarding tipping off opposing teams about plays? There are no sources to verify that "the accusations were baseless" and there is evidence attributed to two different people with nothing to back it up. Instead it just says "citation needed," which is as weaselly as it gets. I've taken your patronizing advice and rephrased my contribution again, but your intense scrutiny of my contribution while turning a blind eye to unverified pro-Carter information is very telling. Dantès (talk) 21:38, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Played almost the whole season w/ankle injury

Article about Vince Carter playing the 07-08 Season with an ankle injury should be included. Vince just underwent successful right arthroscopic ankle surgery. That just confirmed that he was playing in pain the whole season but still managed to put up a 20-5-5 average. Source: http://www.nba.com/nets/news/Vince_Carter_4_28_08.html

"Mediocre"

--15.9 points per game average is mediocre? I think that is not an accurate description. It may not live up to Carter's normal stats, but 15.9 points per game is not mediocre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.147.152 (talk) 15:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I took out the "mediocre" descriptor, but the whole section needs work - lot of WP:SYNTHing going on. Mosmof (talk) 18:36, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

John Thompson interview fallout/Carter apologists

Once again, I've had to edit the section on the reaction to Carter's admission that he didn't play hard in his final days as a Raptor. Why? - Someone deleted two links to credible, verifiable content (Sports Illustrated, ESPN) - Wrote about Toronto fans' "perception," which is subjective and unverifiable. Incidentally, there is nothing to perceive since Carter's own comments are essentially a confession - Changed the paragraph to make it more Carter-friendly but also made it chronologically inaccurate by mentioning the 2007 Toronto Star piece before Thompson's comments in 2005

This material has been consistently changed and "massaged" to soften the accusations against Carter, which I've supplied in several verifiable sources. It's the truth; deal with it.Dantès (talk) 20:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Magic trade

Per ESPN, the deal has only been agreed upon in principle. Per WP:CRYSTAL, we don't change roster details until a transaction has been officially completed. Thanks. --Madchester (talk) 21:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

some sort of basketball event for kids

I remember some years ago when he was still with the raptors that my local YMCA basketball camp i was in took us to UCF to go to this vince carter thing where we practiced basketball with him, even played 21 with him and a group of kids, got his autograph. Anyway, if anyone can help find information on this to add to the article it'd be appreciated. So far i've found this, which i am certain is probably the event i went to. camp