Talk:Blonde stereotype

Characteristics

What are more characteristics of a dumb blonde?

I think being dumb and blonde are the two defining characteristics, any others would be irrelevant. --fvw* 22:16, 2004 Dec 18 (UTC)

An example of a popular joke about dumb blondes: Do you know how dies cerebral cells of blonde girls? By loneliness!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the definitive 'dumb blonde' is blonde, dumb and usually young and attractive - but not (neccesarily) sexual. A bimbo on the other hand is sexualised (and indeed may be a non-blonde)

There are virginal/non-sexualised dumb blondes:

• Melody Valentine from Josie and the Pussycats
• Kelly Gaines from Cheers

A bimbo on the other hand is usually sexualised:

• Harmony Kendall from Buffy the Vampire Slayer
• Linda from Becker (a non-blonde bimbo)

--Ross Nolan 11:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

In addition, despite the stereotype, dumb blondes can also be male or female.

Medieval Europe

The Frankish, Norman, and Gothic-descended nobility of Europe tended to be darker-haired than the peasantry--what? 207.68.245.5 (talk) 01:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Buffy

I don't know the Betty Cooper character, but in the film, at least, the whole point of the Buffy character was that she was dumb-blonde type, who triumphed anyway. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 19:07, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Valley Girl

I don't think Clueless really popularized the Valley Girl stereotype. When the movie Valley Girl came out in 1983, the idea of a Valley Girl was already well-ingrained in pop culture. Frank Zappa's song was released in 1982. Neither of these would have had any success if the Valley Girl stereotype wasn't already well-established. Al 15:59, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, in the case of Zappa, I suspect that not many people bought his records because of their lyrics — and I'm certain that most people outside (and many within) the U.S. didn't know what was being parodied, but enjoyed it anyway. It's the sort of thing that does become known through parodies rather than in any other way. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:45, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Roman empire era

Please forgive my ignorance where to put this...and the proverbial but,

Blonde woman lived north of the Roman empire. There were blonde men also. Both, each, blue eyed. Romans never called their ships she or their country she. The Celts did and to this day many countries. Why would a society that praises women would call them dumb if they were light of hair. Which leads us to Dumnorix.

A Celt/Gual king, crying out as Roman swords pierced him. "I am a Free man in a Free state". (not that I advocate kings but at the time it was better under Dummy than Ceasar.

At the time there were other Gaulsih chieftains conspiring with Ceasar's troops. Dumnorix died fighting against the Romans even though the odds were so stacked against him, maybe leaving the people to say don't be a dum(norix)my submit. But I haven't met a blond who would.

The above remark was added 01:15, 5 May 2006 and originates from IP-address 65.8.31.23

Usagi Tsukino

Usagi Tsukino is definitely not "intelligent and appropriately serious in demeanor". It makes me wonder if whoever wrote that actually saw the show or read the comics. She is nice, caring person but she is also a superficial, over-romantic, fun-loving, whiny and scatter-brained child, immature even for a girl in her lower teens. She readily admits it herself. Perhaps whoever wrote this was thinking of Sailor Venus who is also blonde and fits the description much better. Usagi Tsukino actually fits the dumb blonde cliché much better than the description above.

Brunettes/redheads who are naturally blonde

I don't quite understand the new heading ".../blondes who are..." Does that not remove the 'interest' from the issue?

Cameron Diaz natural blond? Recently seen pictures in which the bleaching is gone and a very natural deep black haircolor shows instead. But blue-eyed, which made the former artificial blond so much more look like real.

Don't think Miss Middler is natural blond. Seen a picture with black hair and it looked very much like real. She's got to much temperament for a 'temperate'. No Northern-Europide could sing for instance that 'Cuba-song', (what's it's exact title?) in a way, she does, unless eventually a natural orange-blond (which she might be). James Blond 05:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

But she most likely isn't. Found this:[1]; picture nr. 10 looks most natural of them all. Like that there's room enough for all those wigs, shown in most of the other pictures. All by all she's a Jewish person, who has been flaunting a lot with other persons feathers. But she can sing all right (unlike other blackhaired wigwearer Madonna). James Blond 14:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Title

I prefer the French title: "Stereotypes of blondes". More NPoV too, don't you all think so? - Gilliam 22:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Could this whole dumb-blond thing perhaps be a matter of projection? Projecting the fear for own dumbness on others, of whom one thinks, they might be more intelligent? Something like finding peace of mind, by playing it thus, that those others are dumb as well.

Besides, there is a lot, that justifies the thesis, that lightblonds are not dumb, when they turn out not to understand and/or know enough about this industrialised world, because it has been made the (more and more dramatic) way it is, by others, who wouldn't have done this, if they were not more or less dumb themselves. James Blond 04:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Natural Blondes section

Is this section needed? These women, that I know of, aren't really considered "dumb blondes" or at least not all of them. Shouldn't it be edited to either not be there or something like "natural blondes that fit the stereotype" or something? Black Kat 15:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Karen Smith

The character "Karen Smith" is included under "dumb blonde antitheses," as someone who defies the blonde stereotype and is intelligent or serious in demeanor. There are two problems with this: 1) The fictional Karen Smith is indeed dumb, although she is smart enough to recognize and regret her dumbness. 2) Her link leads to a real-life Karen Smith, a hockey player. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.255.245.109 (talk) 05:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

Blonde hair and Ancient Greeks

The author(s) of the article mention(s) that the Ancient Greeks were fascinated by the blonde hair of northern barbarians. While this may be partly true, many heroes of the homeric tales had blonde (xanthos) hair: it was not at all something alien to them.

No, that's true, it most definitely was not alien to them. Blonde hair was present in Greek society in general, both because of Nordic integration, as well as Greek exploration and travel to Nordic lands. The best example would probably be Helen of Troy, who famously had blonde hair, and that blonde hair was likely a primary aspect about her that Greeks found so very attractive.216.185.250.92 (talk) 04:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

China Dolls

Is this the Caucasian version of the China Doll stereotype, out of curiosity--69.234.207.238 (talk) 21:42, 31 January 2008 (UTC)?

Miss South Carolina (2007) answers incident?

Anyone wanna mention that incident in the article?

I think that this might have something to do with the "dumb slut" stereotype. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.77.168.209 (talk) 07:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I proposed for the merge of Blonde jokes to Dumb blonde. To my opinion, they are too closely related to be in separate articles after all. Also, the section regarding the cultural impact of the blonde jokes, which is the only thing that is keeping the Blonde jokes article from deletion, is similar in content, if not almost identical, to the one in this article. Udonknome (talk) 03:22, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Support - these articles cover almost identical subjects. Blonde jokes essentially just contains examples of the dumb blonde stereotype - little more than an {{Examplefarm}}. It should either be merged into this article or deleted outright. Terraxos (talk) 18:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - Blonde jokes has notability on its own & these two should remain as separate articles.

Oppose - The two are perfectly viable separate. - DevOhm ^Talk 01:45, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Support I think that this section is too small and non-notable to be kept here on it's own the way it is. If someone can add more information and get this to at least a start class, mabye this article will have a leg to stand on. P.S. WP:POLL--Ipatrol (talk) 20:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Support - Blond jokes are intrinsically a part of the "dumb blond" mythology, and would serve better to support this article than they would to stand on their own. Rwiggum (^Talk/_Contrib) 18:52, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Support, since texts are small now and will become smaller when trimmed of overlap and unreferenced stuff. - At the same time it is a clearly defined and notable topic. Wikipedia is not paper, and a separate page is quite fine, since the texts have almost no overlap. Therefore there should be no prejudice to split them back when reliable, references content grows. Twri (talk) 19:58, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

--Done. Half a year poll already. `- 7 bubyon>t 20:09, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Blonde jokes entries to this article are being removed as off topic. If there is to be ONE article, it is only proper to offer perspectives for both blonde jokes and dumb blondes. Otherwise, let's split them apart again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.117.179.8 (talk) 02:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

"Sober theories of origins" section

I have a few problems with the "Sober theories of origins" section. Foremost, there is already an "Origins" section, so this section is redundant from the outset – why not just integrate the information into the Origins section? A fair amount of the info is already there. Additionally, the name of the section is weird. "Sober theories?" Are the other theories frivolous?

In terms of content, the section isn't particularly clear – it seems to be talking more about blondness itself, rather than the dumb blond stereotype. The sentence that (I guess?) makes the connection – "Therefore many wanted to believe that blond and rich women were stupid and cheap" – is pretty tenuous, uncited, and sounds like POV. Really, overall I think this section is extraneous. I'll probably delete it within a week or so if no one protests.

- DevOhm ^Talk 01:43, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Obvious origin

A great deal of people who have blonde hair turn to darker blonde or brunette in puberty or later, but never the other way aroud. Thereforem, take the mean age of someone who's blond, take the mean age of someone who's not, and you wind up with blonds being younger, hence associated with youth, including innocence, and naivety.--Loodog (talk) 03:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Hypothesis

Is the stereotype of blondes as dumb maybe due to real subjective perceptions of the many women who dye their hair blond as opposed to natural blonds? Are there any studies on this?

That German Study

I heard on the radio about a study in Germany on the effect of dumb blond jokes on blonds. Indeed, blonds do perform worse on mental tasks right after they've heard a dumb blond joke. Has anyone seen a reference on this? If I were an employer, I'd ban such jokes out of a fear of lowering the performance of some employees. (I have very dark brown hair.)Bostoner (talk) 04:42, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Dumb male blondes

Even though this stereotype is usually used on females, there are some male variations that are popping up more often now. I've seen a few blonde jokes that use male blonds instead of female blondes. Often, he will act the same way as a female but in a more masculine manner. I'm sure that there are more male variations of these blonde jokes out there.

External Links

Seems that there is some disagreement on external links. Before the merge, blonde jokes contained links to good sources of blonde jokes. Since the merge, all links keep getting deleted. There is interest in blonde jokes, so why not have links? Before deleting links, please discuss. Other alternatives include unmerging the topics so that blonde jokes can specifically cater to those who are interested in them. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.117.179.8 (talk) 11:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a web directory. Links are sources of references to encyclopedic information on the subject. Joke collections are not. People may easily google to find hundreds if not thousands of joke websites with blonde jokes, including det]dicated ones. - Altenmann >t 19:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I have a different take on the definition. The following is taken from the article you reference. It indicates that a content-relevant link is appropriate and is not limited to encyclopedic information.

Wikipedia is neither a mirror nor a repository of links, images, or media files.[2] Wikipedia articles are not:

Mere collections of external links or Internet directories. There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia. On articles about topics with many fansites, for example, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate.

I say we put that link back, or another blonde joke site if a better one can be found. Let's have a truce on this issue until other input is received beyond just the two of us. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.117.179.8 (talk) 17:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Movies of Marylin Monroe in the Cinema

Marylin Monroe played the roles of dumb blond, in particular in her first movies such as "Gentlemen prefer Blonds" and "How to marry a millionnaire", for which she actually was named "Best actress" of 1953 by Photoplay magazine. Note: Obviously the role she plays (and not herself) is considred as of a Dumb Blond.

in Victoria Sherrow (2006) Encyclopedia of hair: a cultural history, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2006 page: 274.

Note: I would apreciate that you assume good fate the next time before removing big chunk of content, and first start by putting tag into the text. Thanks. --Nabeth (talk) 22:59, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The reference in question says "a fragile woman who relied rather on her looks rather than on intelligence - what some people refer to as "dumb blond". This definition does not exactly match what is written in wikipedia and I would say rather questionable, but whatever. However I don't see why you don't add this reference into the article, which does mention Marylin Monroe among "dumb blondes" and it is already tagged. I am doing this for you. What about other actresses? Twri (talk) 03:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

If this definition does not match exactly, maybe it may mean that we should amend the Wikipedia definition if it is really one of the way people think of as a Dumb blond. One of the problem with using the term 'Dumb' is that it only refer to stupidity. In the french Wikipedia, the name of the article is "Blonde 'stereotype" (fr:Stéréotype de la blonde) which refers to something slightly broader. Other actresses (or rather roles in cinema)? Sure. Actually, I was just wondering what was the exact impact of Cinema in the perception of this stereotype by the society. Yet, when thinking of dumb blond in cinema, the first character that come to my mind is Marylin Monroe, and it isn't indeed really about studipidy, but rather that what matters is the perception (like if some other part of my brain taking control). To finish, yes it would be good and I would thank you to make the addition, since I had previous contribution on this subject reverted. I would like to avoid playing too much the little game of editor / censor. --Nabeth (talk) 12:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I modified the article to address the concerns expressed in this talk section. Twri (talk) 17:57, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Origin of the dumb blonde stereotype

There is no information in the article about when this idea that blondes are dumb emerged. Did it exist before Hollywood started to propagate it?--Victor Chmara (talk) 17:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Gerblondz

Could the concept of a blonde moment originate from the Yiddish word Gerblondz (not sure of the spelling), meaning confused?--MartinUK (talk) 16:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Repetition in the article

Why are things repeated over and over on the article? Is it like that so that blondes can get it or what? Seriously.