Talk:Women's rights in Iran

Hello Sangak I think you should also mention in this article about the difference of modern Persian women's movement, and the ancient one. because the actual Persian women's movement started from the time of Cyrus the Great.

Also I will translatete your article to Persian so we can put it in Persian Wiki as well.

--Kaaveh 11:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I surely agree with you. I suggest this article to be focused on 19th and 20th century with a short reference to ancient and pre modern movement while Iranian women page is mainly devoted to the ancient Iran and a short reference to the modern one.

Indeed this was my original idea. I think It is very important to keep Iranian women page in a safe position and keeping it away from attacks. Modern movement is very controversial and may produce huge controversies. As such I decided to initial the article. This is inline with the article: Intellectual movements in Iran.

Thanks for translation. I will also try to collect more info. dastetoon dard nakoneh! --Sangak11:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi again; I am totally agree with you on this. I will also mark this article on my watchlist to prevent any possible vandalism. Sangak jan are u also going to write about "Kashf-e Hijab" by Reza Shah (the great) which was a landmark in the Persian women's movement in this article? If so, I can find pictures of some "Shir-zans" from the Reza Shah era. --Kaaveh 12:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

If you can add some info, that would be great. I am planning to concentrate on literary criticism, music, modern art and possibly some medical issues (contraception, family planning etc). I am looking for those women who took ground breaking steps but their names have been forgotten in the history.

Also "influence of Iranian movement on non Iranians in the region (middle east and central asia)" is some thing I am keen on figuring out. --Sangak12:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Reading this article, I was struck by the wide-spread use of the word "girl" to refer to adult persons, e.g., in the case of a Princeton mathematician. To me the term smacks of sexism, and seems out of place for a page on a women's movement.

Feel free to edit them out--Honeymane_{Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam} 07:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

numerous appearance of "girl" is due to word by word translation from persian. girl can refers to women of teenage (and younger ofcourse) and also to women of all ages as in "girls of Iran" a common phrase in persian. Feel free to replace "girl" with "woman" if it sounds unusual for English language speakers.Sangak 16:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

comment from an outsider

Shouldn't this article mention human rights issues in Iran? mirageinred 22:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

No! Human rights issues are discussed here and here. This article covers what Iranian women did themselves not what others (Iranian men and Iranian government) did to women. Sangak ^Talk 19:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

What if Iranian women fought back the injustices? Isn't that worthy of mention? mirageinred 20:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Of course it will be included! For instance One Million Signatures, Tahmineh Milani's feminist cinema and Shahla Sherkat's magazine, Qamar ol-Molouk Vaziri's musical performance in public (among others) have been included in the article. Please read the section on Women's movement in late 20th century. Sangak ^Talk 21:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The title of the article lead me to think that this is a human rights/women's rights article. I was about to ask if someone would add some content about women campaigning for greater political or occupational freedoms. Maybe this article should be retitled? Persian women's intellectual movements, perhaps?RedPen 03:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Subheadings

The current TOC reads:

1. Women in The Persian Constitutional Revolution
2. Women in The Iranian Revolution
3. Iranian women and contemporary Persian literature
4. Iranian women and Persian music
5. Iranian women and education
6. Iranian women and modern art
7. Iranian women and Sports
8. Women's health in modern Iran
9. Women's movement in the late 20th and early 21st centuries
10. Women's studies in Iranian Universities
11. Women's movements in the Iranian cultural continent

Shouldn't that just be the following?

1. The Persian Constitutional Revolution
2. The Iranian Revolution
3. Contemporary Persian literature
4. Persian music
5. Education
6. Modern art
7. Sports
8. Women's health in modern Iran
9. Women's movement in the late 20th and early 21st centuries
10. Women's studies in Iranian Universities
11. Women's movements in the Iranian cultural continent

-- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 07:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

typo

Massive typo:"Such education and social trends are increasingly viewed with alarm by the Iranian secularists and opposition groups" - this should read 'Iranian authorities' not secularists and opposition (check reference 33)

grezoc 82.35.102.252 (talk) 17:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Possible POV

I saw this on the cleanup taskforce list and set out to clean up the spacing on the images. In the process, I decided to fill out the Literature section a bit. However, I added info about one of the books being banned, and upon reflection, I wonder if it's not just a bit out of place in this article. So, if anyone objects to it, feel free to remove the mention.Phyesalis (talk) 09:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Zoya Pirzad book.jpg

Image:Zoya Pirzad book.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 19:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

What about the Pahlavi Dynasty?

WHY does this article mention NOTHING about the extensive rights that Iranian women enjoyed under Mohammed Reza Pahlavi? He wasn't perfect or wholly democratic, but he gave many rights to women. The right to vote, the option to not wear headcoverings, equality with men; come on, you have to mention that!

--Simfan34 (talk) 01:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

r —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simfan34 (talk • contribs) 01:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The article is about what women achieved themselves and not what was granted to them (or taken from them) by various regimes. Having said that, It is a good idea to have a section on that period. Sangak ^Talk 19:14, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mehre madari.jpg

Image:Mehre madari.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 15:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

This article was appalling and completely redone

I am deeply disappointed in the editors of this article given the state I found it. Given that there is no Women's rights in Iran article, this article must fill that void. The reasoning given on this talk page to keep it circumcised in scope, while completely neglecting the history of the country, and even factually mischaracterizing it, made it completely useless for anyone doing research. An article about Iranian women already exists, it's called Iranian women. Put achievements by women there, which is more appropriate. Or start an Achievements of Iranian women article.

Khomeini was essentially hailed as helping women, while many important gains under the shah were never discussed. In fact, women protested the Khomeini government at the outset. The comments on this talk page by casual readers evidence that people were coming here to find out about the totality of the women's rights movement in Iran; and looking for a well-sourced article that does so. If it is returned to its prior state, I will open this up for a RfC because I was very troubled by what I saw. Statements like "The movement lasted until 1933 in which the last women’s association was dissolved by the Reza Shah’s government. It heightened again after the Iranian Revolution (1979)." are completely false. No women were involved at all in the gains they made during the shah? Not even his family members? Additionally, statements like "Dramatic changes in the labor force might not have been possible if Khomeini had not broken the barriers to women entering into the public sphere unchaperoned." are not only OR, but they are false. Women didn't need chaperones; permission, perhaps, but not chaperones. There were almost no sources supporting such ridiculous pro-Khomeini statements (and such statements also hurt the contention that this article was about women's achievements made by women, since it is giving Khomeini credit for apparently liberating women from their homes...?). --David Shankbone 01:59, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree with you. For example the following statement: "Dramatic changes in the labor force might not have been possible if Khomeini had not broken the barriers to women entering into the public sphere unchaperoned." is neither OR nor false. Please read this article at Washington Institute's webpage!! We as editors need to be unbiased. Both Khomeini and Shah did positive and negative things. Sinooher (talk) 11:23, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Is http://www.watsoninstitute.org/bjwa/archive/9.2/Iran/Bahramitash.pdf a reliable source? It seems a pro-revolutionary polemic. --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:43, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Being reliable or unreliable has nothing to do with being pro-revolutionary or anti-revolutionary!! The author of the article is an academic in a well knwon canadian University: link Sinooher (talk) 15:06, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I am the one who re-wrote this article, and I was very pleased to hear just yesterday the highly regarded program All Things Considered do an in-depth look at the history of the women's rights movement in Iran, and it comported very, very closely with what I wrote: Despite Odds, Women's Movement Persists In Iran. Regarding the piece above, this is a Post-doctoral thesis, and its claims need to be sourced by multiple, scholarly-reviewed publications. Additionally, the claims in the paper basically make the point that enjoyment of rights was a socio-economic issue, not a gender issue, and if we are to include the claims made by Bahramitash in her thesis, that context needs to be made clear. --David Shankbone 19:44, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Stoning to be moved to "Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran" ?

The section on stoning is not addressing a gender issue as the stoning law is not biased toward men or women. The number of men subject to stoning has been always higher than women. Ofcourse women right activists also campaigned against stoning but as a human right issue and not a women right issue. I suggest the section be moved to "Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran" article. Any idea? Sinooher (talk) 09:00, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

You're right, this is not a gender-specific issue. In fact, more men have been subjected to stoning than women. I moved the section some time ago, but it was restored by an editor who is stalking me. AlexanderPar (talk) 09:37, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Amnesty international said stoning disproportionately affects women. AzureFury (talk | contribs) 06:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

That's a false claim, more men have been stoned than women. I am removing the subsection, this is not a woman's issue, it's a human rights' issue. I'd advise you against reverting, keep in mind that you stalked me to this page, and stalking is against Wikipedia's rules. AlexanderPar (talk) 06:26, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

"The majority of those sentenced to death by stoning have been women. Women do not receive equal treatment with men under Iranian law and before Iranian courts. Also, because illiteracy is higher among women they may be more likely to sign confessions to crimes they did not commit and to receive unfair trials."[1] Do you have any sources to back up your claim that more men are stoned than women? All we need to include something here is a claim that is supported by multiple reliable sources, whether or not it is true. AzureFury (talk | contribs) 07:09, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I am not going to get into this game with you. Even if what you're claiming was true. (which is not, just look up the names of the known victims) that would still not make stoning, a Women's rights issue, as the Sharia law on stoning applies to both genders. Stoning is a Human rights issue. Every subject has its place, and stoning belongs on Human rights page, not Women's rights page. What matters here is that most sources discussing stoning, classify it as a Human rights issue, and we should follow what the classification of the majority of the sources on the topic is. AlexanderPar (talk) 07:46, 18 September 2010 (UTC)