Talk:ChromeOS

New Package Manager?

It seems that Chromium is no longer based on Debian; it is now based on Gentoo (look here for proof: <http://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/how-tos-and-troubleshooting/portage-build-faq> <http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/how-tos-and-troubleshooting/add-a-new-package> The mentions of ebuilds and Portage prove it is based on Gentoo (at least for the time being). 69.110.72.128 (talk) 05:47, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Chromium OS to start using portage @forums.gentoo.org. ¦ Reisio (talk) 08:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I buy it. See also... <http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-os-dev/browse_thread/thread/337cca9a0da59ad6/9354a38894da5df5> Barte (talk) 13:05, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I changed the Package Manager accordingly in the infobox. 69.110.72.128 (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

It has since been changed to "unclear". I'm somewhat out of my depth here, but does this Chromium.org 2/5/10 post in Google Groups indicate that Portage is now the build tool of choice?

Here's the operative paragraph: "As we’ve been growing and working with more partners, the need to support board specific builds and improve our tools has become more urgent. In order to get there more quickly we’ve been investigating several different build tools. We found that the Portage build tools suit our needs well and we will be transitioning 100% within the next week." Or is more confirmation needed? Barte (talk) 06:03, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Since this ref shows an intention to act, but not that they have acted, I would say quote what the ref says and then look later for confirmation that they have in fact done that. - Ahunt (talk) 14:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I added an additional ref. Barte (talk) 17:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

The Chrome OS team are trying out a few different package managers. They still have builds with dpkg but they are trying out different ones. Id say we should really wait and see until they officially release it with anything different. I would note though that Chrome OS is based heavily on Ubuntu light so it more than likely will use dpkg in final release. Shanefagan (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:30, 25 May 2010 (UTC).

I'd like to see if we can reach consensus on a few points. One is whether a piece of software that is used for creating builds can itself be called a "package manager" as we did in the infobox. From the Wikipedia entry on package managers, I'm starting to think not. If not, can we definitively say the Chrome OS won't have a package manager (i.e., "package manager=none"). Again, I think not, unless Google affirmatively state that's the case. Which, to my knowledge, it hasn't. In that case, I'd prefer to go with "package manager = " Thoughts? Barte (talk) 01:25, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

A package manager would like Advanced Packaging Tool and its GUI Synaptic (software) used in Debian and Ubuntu to download, install, remove and update packages, so this sounds more like a compiler or similar rather than a package manager. It doesn't look like Chrome OS will need one or have one. - Ahunt (talk) 02:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Google does say in a Q&A that Chrome OS (as opposed to Chromium OS) will auto-update. Are we certain that won't be done with a package manager? If we are, then "none" is fine. If we aren't, I think we should leave the category blank until we know more.Barte (talk) 06:46, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

It will definitely have updates, but I think we have to stick to what we know for sure and can reference, so "blank" would seem safest at this point in time. - Ahunt (talk) 10:44, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I've blanked it. Barte (talk) 11:59, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

LPS-Public

Unless I'm missing something, the paragraph on the resemblance between LPS-Public and Chrome OS is strictly OR. I'm not saying the resemblance doesn't exist. But it needs to be referenced. Cite a notable secondary source that makes that case, and you're good as gold. Otherwise, you're just putting forth a pet theory. See wp:nor wp:v Barte (talk) 21:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Point taken wrt reference. Why was LPS-Public included in the formerly Android only section? Chrome OS, LPS, etc. are new genre of OS's, no longer the bloated, multi-purpose, serve-everyone, low-security OS yet are not embedded (immutable) or proprietary/closed (e.g. Nokia, iPad, iPhone). It would be helpful if other functionally-similar (minimal, cloud/browser-focused, higher security, etc.) OS's were included here. As more are added, the length of LPS-Public's mention should be decreased and similar features may apply across many builds. Chrome OS is just the latest and probably most prominent of the cloud-centric end-node OS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sweerek (talk • contribs)

(Sweerek....it would be useful if you could sign your posts. Four tildas. Thanks.) I agree that Chrome OS is a member of a larger family of mimimal OSs. MeeGo and Jolicloud may be two others. (I read one article that called them "disposable OSs."). But I disagree that this is the place to discuss them--otherwise, that discussion would have to be repeated for each OS. If there are enough references to carry it, the better place is an entire article--a meta-discussion--on the topic. Barte (talk) 14:44, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Deja vu

Re: the recent linkspam, looks like we've been here before with User talk:62.172.106.177. Check out the 3/09 and 2/10 entries. Barte (talk) 15:05, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Yup spammers are nothing if not persistent. Fortunately I am more persistent. - Ahunt (talk) 15:18, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

I've been editing Wikipedia since 2005, but I still don't understand the general criteria for blocking a user. Is it repeated offences? Or repeated offences over a given month? Sometimes, it seems like blocking spam is downright sisyphean. Barte (talk) 15:34, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure either, but persistence spammers do get blocked. I just make spamming too boring for them - I revert them with a standard edit summary and add standard templates to their pages. It all looks very mechanical and doesn't reward their bad behavior. The same works for vandals, who often want to upset people and incite nasty responses. Another user I know mentioned that vandal fighting is like a video game, click, click, they lose. When you wipe out all the edits in a few minutes in a surgical manner by tracking their contributions it quickly becomes clear to them that they are wasting their time and they go back to their day jobs, bomb-making or whatever they do. - Ahunt (talk) 15:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

So the price of Wikipedia is eternal vigilance. I buy it. But as an experiment, I wonder what would happen if people "accelerated" the warning template based on past behavior, not just past behavior for the current month. I look at the number of warnings on User talk:62.172.106.177 and think, life is too short. But maybe I'm just impatient. Barte (talk) 16:37, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

"So the price of Wikipedia is eternal vigilance." - Exactly. With "repeat offenders" I don't usually start from scratch when warning, but build on past warnings, particularly if they are recent. IP addresses need to be handled with some care as they do change (dynamic IPs) and the same person may not be responsible for vandalism or spamming as in the past with that same IP address. Sometimes there is a pattern, though. Eventually they get blocked or banned. - Ahunt (talk) 18:31, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Which license?

The term "open source" is meaningless marketing junk. 85.76.38.140 (talk) 08:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for rephrasing your statement. There is a complete discussion of what Open-source software means in that article, including complete definitions. I am presuming that you are implying that the licence should be clearly identified in the article. I agree this is a good idea. In looking though the source code website the licencing is not as clearly stated as I would like, but that page seems to indicate that coding is all BSD licenced (it says "examples are licensed under the BSD License.") so I have added that to the article infobox. It seems to me that because the OS uses the Linux kernel, which is GPL, that this is not the whole story and that the OS is actually mixed licences, although I can't find a list of them. Perhaps someone with greater expertise can add something here. - Ahunt (talk) 12:52, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

As long as notable news sources--of the kind cited in the article--keep using "open source" in connection with Chrome OS, this article will too. That's how Wikipedia works: it's a compendium of secondary sources, and published, notable sources trump anonymous critiques. See wp:v Barte (talk) 14:47, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a neutral source of information (wp:npov), articles aren't written from the point of view of their subjects.

The New York Times reference in the article uses the term "open source." There are others, as well. Barte (talk) 23:13, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Is the Chromium OS the same as the Chrome OS? 85.76.38.140 (talk) 15:13, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Chromium OS is described separately at Chromium OS. - Ahunt (talk) 18:08, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Coming soon: reality check

As we near the end of the year, actual Chrome OS devices may actually hit the market. Ditto an official, downloadable version of Chromium OS. Which got me thinking--what should we do with the many speculative paragraphs in the article? We could make them part of a history--Observer X predicted outcome Y. Or we could delete them as the facts of the matter replace the hunches. I vote for the latter: the predictions about the OS have been so varied that one can only conclude that there was no meaningful consensus worth memorializing. Thoughts? Barte (talk) 16:03, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

That is a tough call. I tend to go more with the latter approach and at least keep a few of the notably wrong predictions, if only to keep the history complete and show how little information Google made available during development. - Ahunt (talk) 20:15, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Indeed: surprisingly little leakage on what the hardware partners have been up to. Barte (talk) 23:02, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

It has been like a government "black project"!! It will have to be out soon if they want to sell any this Christmas. - Ahunt (talk) 23:22, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Adobe hardware??

Article claims Adobe is producing compatible hardware for the new OS. What "hardware" does Adobe manufacture? -Grammaticus Repairo (talk) 02:38, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

The article says it because the citation says it. If you find a reference to the contrary, you can cite it and take "Adobe" off the list. Barte (talk) 03:49, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Release date?

I have been skimming the web looking for any news on the Chrome OS release date. If they want it to be under the tree this Christmas it has to be out very soon! This article from 12 October claims a rumoured 11 Nov release date, which is today! All the news seems to have dried up this fall. Has anyone seen anything? - Ahunt (talk) 01:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Not a thing. All the Google OS news seems centered on Android tablets. And on tablets, especially, Android does seem more like Google's answer to iOS. Barte (talk) 23:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Even on the Google official blogs the silence is eerie. I expected by this point in time the PR machine would be in full swing. Even the so-called hardware partners are very quiet, all just say "we recommend Windows 7". The usual tech writers and reviewers are quiet, too - I am sure they have nothing more to report than we do. If Christmas comes and goes without a release questions are going to be asked. I wonder what is going on? You don't think they switched the focus from netbooks to tablets and moved to android, do you? - Ahunt (talk) 00:39, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Here is something at least work on the Chromium OS dev seems to be continuing apace. - Ahunt (talk) 00:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

And putting these two idea together, you might have landed on it. Chrome OS was announced as a built-in OS for netbooks: a platform that is apparently under siege. The value proposition: stick to web apps and we'll give you a fast boot time. Enter the tablet, which gives you native apps, Web apps, and fast boot times, at least from a warm boot. So far, Android is indeed Google's tablet OS. Verizon is selling iOS and Android tablets. David Pogue just gave a Samgung Android tablet a rave review (except for price) in the New York Times. The tablet would seem the 2010 Christmas device that Chrome OS devices were on track to fill. As you say, if any of those Chrome OS partners is planning a holiday launch, they've certainly kept it quiet.

Which leaves Google-inclined netbook users with.....Chromium OS, I suppose. Neither Android or iOS are credibly going there. On my netbook, which I'm tapping on here, I went from Ubuntu to Jolicloud--which gives me a local word processor for client meetings. My new Android phone gives me instant Web access. If I'm typical of the remaining netbook demographic, the window (pardon the expression) seems to be closing. Barte (talk) 03:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

That all makes sense, but it leaves this article curiously hanging in thin air, as it were. As I have indicated above the whole premise of Chrome OS was nonsense, when you add in the decline in popularity in netbooks due to tablets it makes even less sense. We have been running Ubuntu on a netbook for over a year and have recently been testing Puppy Linux on it. Now that boots very fast and runs Chromium browser or SRWare Iron, will do far more than Chrome OS will do and it is free and available today. I wish we had a ref to cite that could explain what is going on in the Chrome OS world. I am still looking! - Ahunt (talk) 13:39, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

This Digitimes story is getting some pickup--reporting (though anonymous sources) Chrome OS device shipments in November and December, including one from Google, a la Nexus One. But whether Chrome OS succeeds or flops, this article will be fine. It will chronicle a stunning Google success, a notable failure, or something between. Ditto the Chromium OS article. We'll just have to wait and see. I hadn't heard of Puppy Linux. Yet one more Linix distro to take for a spin! Barte (talk) 17:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh I agree this article will document a great success or failure. Either way it is story worth telling. I'll see if I can work in that ref you found! Puppy is actually very impressive, small (130 MB) but very complete, runs entirely in RAM from a CD, USB or hard drive. It may turn out to be what Chrome OS could have been. - Ahunt (talk) 18:41, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

The tech press is getting a bit hyper about the release of Chrome OS, but I think this is closer to rumour-level, than a reliable source: Download the default ChromeOS wallpaper and view the default screensaver. - Ahunt (talk) 00:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

And there are reports that Eric Schmidt told reporters at the Web 2.0 conference that the OS won't be out for a couple of months. Let us remember: wp:cball. Barte (talk) 07:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I think that ref you cited is reliable enough to include, whereas mine isn't! - Ahunt (talk) 12:49, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. But if and when a release version Chrome OS ever sees light, with actual deliverables replacing all the stated intent (including edits from yours truly), the article will compress by a third. Barte (talk) 15:31, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh I agree - when it is released we can say "it was released on XX date". I think right now the important thing is that if someone is looking to find out when it is set for release that we have the "best guess so far". There will be a lot of text to fix and probably remove once it is released, but just think, we can make it up quoting all the reviews! - Ahunt (talk) 03:10, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Dec 7 2010 event

So was this event in fact the "official launch" of Chrome OS? The Telegraph seems to think so (and I cited it), but other coverage didn't put raise that flag, characterizing this as a minor event. Any consensus? I wouldn't object if the sentence in the article were deleted, which I almost did myself. I also read in CNET coverage that Chrome OS hardware is now scheduled for mid-2011. Is that being widely reported? Barte (talk) 07:45, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

A good question! Ryan Paul writing for Ars Technica, always a good source, indicates that the Dec 7th event "demonstrated Chrome OS" and that "Chrome OS isn't quite production-ready yet, but Google has partnered with hardware vendors ASUS and Samsung with the aim of launching products next year. The search giant has started rolling out unbranded test units as part of a pilot program." So I would say it was not an official launch, but a public demonstration. - Ahunt (talk) 11:51, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to delete the sentence. The event was certainly notable, and the paragraph newly added to the article on the test machine works. But launch = commercially available, and the OS isn't, yet. I'm also going to reword the expected date to note the slippage.Barte (talk) 19:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Looks good to me, thanks for retaining the Ryan Paul ref, I think that is useful. - Ahunt (talk) 20:13, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

His was the best single piece of coverage I read on the event. Barte (talk) 23:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

That was what I found as well. I read his column regularly, he is a very reliable source on lots of free software projects and eminently quotable as well! - Ahunt (talk) 01:22, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Cr-48

We need an article on the Cr-48. Right now it redirects to the current article. There is a lot of buzz and controversy about it. The test unit seem to be a complete ripoff of the Apple's MacBook(Air) design. 87.158.152.243 (talk) 13:10, 11 December 2010 (UTC)