Talk:AIK IF

2nd ranked

2nd ranked as of when? Manticore55 06:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

As stated in the lead seaction, AIK has played in Elitserien 1975-1986, 1987-1993 and 1994-2002. That means they were demoted after the 2001-02 season in Kvalserien relegations of 2002. As seen on [1] the last two teams in Elitserien that year (who had to play relegation series) were Timrå IK and AIK. Timrå IK was able to win the relegation series that year and thereby stayed in Elitserien but AIK finished in third place after Leksands IF, which means Leksands IF was promoted to and AIK was demoted from Elitserien. The 2002-03 season AIK finished 4th in Kvalserien. In 2003-04 they were 5th. In 2004-05 AIK was forced down to the third tier (Division 1) due to bad economy, but still finished in 1st place of the qualification series to the second tier and was thereby promoted to HockeyAllsvenskan. AIK finished 6th there in 2005-06 season and were out of that years qualification series. Finally, last season 2006-07 of (Hockey)Allsvenskan AIK ended up 9th and again missed the playoffs and qualifications. --Bamsefar75 15:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:AIKcrest.png

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BetacommandBot 23:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Move

See User talk:Djsasso/Archive 5#AIK Move for initial request.

Move reverted for the following reasons

1. First of all, the official website uses AIK Ishockey consistently.
2. Secondly, the trend is that Scandinavian sport clubs like AIK, VIF and AaB, all start dividing their club sports into own entities like AIK Ishockey (ice hockey), Vålerenga Fotball (football) and AaB Håndbold (handball).
3. Third and finally, this move will make the article name more ambiguous, as the abbreviation IF also means Idrottsförening (Template:Lang-en); like in Djurgårdens IF, where the ice hockey department currently is located at Djurgårdens IF Hockey. (This page should rather be changed to Djurgården Hockey, like their legal name and as shown in their logo.)

Suggest you start a WP:Requested move if you still mean it should be moved. Regards, lil2mas (talk) 00:08, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

AIK Ishockey is a short for AIK Ishockeyförening, which also is used on their official website and always by the Swedish Ice Hockey Association. All other teams in Elitserien and Allsvenskan have their articles titled with the team name registered with the Swedish Ice Hockey Association. Using Ishockey in an article title on English Wikipedia, especially when it's only a short form of the official name, is not optional. And I think we can come to a consensus here, I'll leave a note on WT:HOCKEY for more input. —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 01:06, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally didn't care either way. But I think Krm's reasoning is sound. Secondly since AIK IF already redirects to this page, there is no disambiguation issues. -DJSasso (talk) 10:33, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

After further diggin' I've found something interesting on AIK.se/Ishockey (translated). The article says that AIK IF is in charge of all operations except for the Elitserien team, which is an own team/entity (search for AIK in the Swedish business register, you get AIK Ishockey (AB), as well as AIK Fotboll & AIK Innebandy among the results).

This article is 99% about the Elitserien team, called AIK Ishockey, not the youth ice hockey departments of the club, called AIK IF. Hence, I believe this article should still be called AIK Ishockey. AIK IF could be created as an own article about the youth department, but I don't think it is notable enough! lil2mas (talk) 20:55, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, some teams choose to register corporations to operate and handle the economics of their elite team separate from the association/club for financial reasons. In this case AIK Ishockey AB, but the team is still playing under the banner AIK IF. You are confusing business with sports, it's like saying that we should move the Toronto Maple Leafs article to Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment or the HV71 article to HV71 Elitishockey AB. —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 22:05, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Small note: AB is the Swedish equivalent of AG, Ltd, Inc, etc. And I took a quick look at the Elitserien team articles and in all the lead must be rewritten to clarify that it's not only professional team but an sports association/club with several teams in different leagues and age groups. —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 22:23, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

The article I showed you in my last comment clearly stated that AIK IF is the youth department, while AIK Ishockey is the elite team. This article is clearly about the elite team that currently plays in Elitserien, and should therefore be named AIK Ishockey. If this were to be changed into being an article for the ice hockey umbrella; AIK IF, the current infobox needs to be moved down to an own elite section making the article pretty uneven in context. lil2mas (talk) 22:52, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

No it didn't... The website stated exactly what I wrote above; AIK Ishockey AB is corporation in charge of operations of the professional team playing in Elitserien. But it has nothing to do with the name of that said team. Quite frankly you don't know what you are talking about, and this article should immediately be moved back to AIK IF, and then if you feel like it you can start and WP:RM because it's up to you to convince us why this article should be treated differently then all other articles on Swedish ice hockey teams. —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 23:12, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

This article has been named AIK Ishockey since 2007, it is even named AIK Ishockey at the Swedish Wikipedia. Please loose the temper, and start a WP:RM if you'd like to! ;o) lil2mas (talk) 23:23, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

No, it was named AIK Hockey until May 22, 2010. I'm not a contributor on Swedish Wikipedia so I don't care if they have it wrong, and I got my temper when you decided to play dirty and deliberately made sure I couldn't revert your last move. For now we have a neutral name, hopefully we can get more input and come to a consensus tomorrow. I'm going to bed now, goodnight. —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 23:35, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Guys stop moving the page. And calm down. What the Swedish wiki calls it is irrelevant (and ironically they often move their articles to whatever we name them), as we are supposed to name articles to what their most common name in english is. In this case AIK or AIK IF would be the most common name. I don't know that I have ever seen it written as AIK Ishockey in english. Krm is correct in that the AIK Ishockey name has only been there less than a month it was AIK Hockey before that because that is english. -DJSasso (talk) 11:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if we could get wider input and reach a consensus. I'm fine with having the article here until then, it seems to have solved the move war at least. —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 00:14, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The reason I moved the page to AIK Ishockey (which started this whole conflict) was it is currently the name of the Swedish article. /HeyMid (contributions) 12:19, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Moved back to AIK Ishockey

I've moved the article back to AIK Ishockey, mainly because of an e-mail reply I got from a person in the AIK Ishockey (organization?). He said that AIK Ishockey is the name of the club and suggested that should also be the name of the article, no matter which country or language we are talking about. /HeyMid (contributions) 17:22, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Claiming someone said something in an email does not count as a reliable source. Let's agree not to move this again without further discussion with wider community input. —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 19:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Two things wrong about that, one claiming someone said something isn't a reliable source. Second, we use what the most common name is in english for article titles, no matter what the subject is or where it is from. It doesn't actually matter what the native name is. -DJSasso (talk) 22:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Further discussion

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. HeyMid (contributions) 20:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

---

AIK (ice hockey) → AIK IF — I agree with Krm500 and DJSasso in the first discussion; AIK IF is the abbreviation of "Allmänna Idrottsklubben Ishockeyförening", which is the full name of the club. But "Allmänna Idrottsklubben Ishockeyförening" is too long for an article name, so I suggest (like Krm500 and DJSasso) that "AIK IF" should be the name of this article. HeyMid (contributions) 11:11, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Table showing the title of this article at different language versions

Title	Number of wikis
AIK Ishockey	4 (cs, de, pl, sv)
AIK IF	3 (fr, sl, fi)
AIK (ice hockey)	1 (en)

Note that the above table is derived from the inter-wiki links at the article in this language version.

/HeyMid (contributions) 12:28, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

• Support same opinion as in previous discussions. —KRM ^{(Communicate!)} 15:59, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Copy edit

I'm not going to review this article (I feel articles should be assessed by people that don't know the game), but I will copy edit a bit. Here are some issues I see.

1. References need complete details, not just titles.
2. AIK IF charges all corporations except the Elitserien team. Not sure what this means.
3. I got tired of reading the history section so I skipped the last bit. It should be more of a synthesis and less of a season-by-season event log. Take a look at Calgary Flames or New Jersey Devils, some ice hockey featured article teams.
4. I'm not sure if the supporter sections are needed; check WP:External links.

Good luck on your GA review! –[[::User:Schmloof|Schmloof]] ([[::User talk:Schmloof|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Schmloof|contribs]]) 08:33, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

The external links to the supporter clubs are notable, as they represent their fans. HeyMid (contributions) 10:56, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Useful link?

Here's an article from NHL.com that provides a North American look at AIK. Take a look, I see tons of useful stuff in there. –[[::User:Schmloof|Schmloof]] ([[::User talk:Schmloof|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Schmloof|contribs]]) 01:24, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

That article is from 2008, but sure, I'll take a look. HeyMid (contributions) 09:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:AIK IF/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I will do an initial review in the next few hours.

Reviewer: Taiwantaffy (talk) 05:16, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

OK, here is the initial review, according to the numbers on the Good Article criteria page.

1 (a): Article prose is clear and concise

• There are some awkward phrases not usually used by native speakers of English.

Examples:

• "the ice hockey section of the sports association Allmänna Idrottsklubben" (from the lead): "sports association" usually refers to an organising body, like the Svenska Ishockeyförbundet, not a collection of teams under one name, like AIK. "Associated sports club" would be clearer.
• "In the team's 89 years long history" (from the lead): should be "In the team's 89 year history".
• "The team's first competition was non-championship series" (from "Early Years"): should be either "was a non-championship series" or "was the non-championship series" depending.

I won't point out everything that needs revising according to this criterion, as there are many instances. The article really needs a thorough copy-edit by a native English speaker - perhaps ask for help in Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey.

1 (b): Article complies with the Manual of Style

• Lead section: A little light, could do with some more information
• Layout: No major issues
• Words to Watch: "In a remarkable and among the AIK supporters' historical game" (from the Downfall section): these are peacock terms. There are other examples, which a copy-edit would catch.
• Fiction: No problems.
• List incorporation: No problems.

2 (a): References to all sources

2 (b): Inline citations to reliable sources

• One dead link, to http://static.hockeyligan.se/upload/file/Spelschema%20Elitserien%202010-2011.pdf
  •  Fixed that one. HeyMid (contribs) 20:50, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

2 (c): Contains no original research

3 (a): Addresses the main aspects of the topic

• The Swedish article on AIK IF contains more detail - this could be incorporated in the English article. There are also other topics which may reasonably be expected in an encyclopedic article which are missing here, such as a section on the stadium, club playing colours, season-by-season breakdowns and so on. The article on the Calgary Flames provides a good example to follow.

3 (b): Stays focused on the topic

4: Neutrality

5: Stability

6: Images

• The Swedish and German articles on the subject have more images, some of which could be incorporated into the English article.

So, it's not quite ready yet for Good Article status. My suggestions for how to proceed would be (in chronological order):

• Add more information, particularly on the area outlined above under section 3 (a).
• Rewrite the lead section based on the extra information added.
• Add appropriate images.
• Ask a native speaker to give the piece a thorough edit.

I think the contributors have done a great job to bring the article to where it is now, but a little more work is needed. I'll put the article review on hold for now.

Taiwantaffy (talk) 06:30, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

The nom seems to have retired, so you can either fail the article or ask a wikiproject to handle the remaining issues. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:30, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I've failed the article against the GA criteria as the nominator has retired and nobody else has taken on reforming the article. Hopefully someone can come back to this in the near future and bring it up to standard. Taiwantaffy (talk) 04:41, 31 January 2011 (UTC)