Talk:JONAH

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Lifestyle?

It attracts a variety of Jews with same same-sex attractions, including those who want to leave the gay lifestyle, and those who are already married.

This seems somewhat non-NPOV to me. Being gay is not a "lifestyle", since it is not a choice, and it encompasses more than certain customes. A lifestyle is favoring certain restaurants, or drinks, or neighborhoods, etc., depending on how big your paycheck is.

Most "ex-gay"ist proponents do recognize that gays cannot control nor choose their homosexual thoughts and drives, and they try to teach you to sublimate and not act on them through faith and whatnot. I'm not that familiar with the techniques, so I may be mistaking something. Anyway, I thought I should bring this up here instead of making a change without consensus, since this is a complicated topic.

I propose something like:

It attracts a variety of Jews with same-sex attractions, including those who are engaging themselves in homosexual activities but want to lead a heterosexual life, and those who are already in a heterosexual relationship and/or marriage. ("already married." is confusing, since gay marriage is legal in a number of places).

If there are no objections, I will make the change. --W2bh (talk) 14:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds fine to me. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 18:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not Teaching Hatred

JONAH does not teach hatred towards homosexuals.

This seems slightly non-NPOV, like something copied from promotional literature. By even raising the issue, it seems to imply that other ex-gay groups do teach hatred, something that all(?) of them would deny. Also, it is debatable whether it is possible to hate the sin while loving the sinner. Some gay advocates argue that "hating the sin" contributes to a hostile climate toward the "sinners." Peter Chastain (talk) 19:02, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that quoting a JONAH statement to the effect that they do not teach hatred would be better NPOV. I have searched the JONAH web site and could not find such a statement, but I also could not find any evidence of hatred toward gay people. The real debate here is whether reparative therapy is helpful or harmful. The question of hatred toward homosexuals does not come up, and I suggest that we remove it from our article. Peter Chastain (talk) 20:40, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have revised the paragraph, hopefully sidestepping the question of whether JONAH promotes antipathy toward gays. Peter Chastain (talk) 22:12, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Successfully completed their program of gender affirmation"

Interesting how the grandest assertion has a broken reference link. It should be removed. -Loppy Thug

Allegations of "Psychological Striptease"

The substantiated allegations of therapists demanding participants to touch themselves sexually naked in front of the therapists MUST be included in this article. It is a huge point of the organization's history and the plethora of allegations against it. Speaking of which.... -Loppy Thug

Plethora of Allegations Against JONAH

Including the aforementioned claims, the claim that JONAH keeps no solid statistics of its success (or failure, inflicting on intense psychological trauma, etc.), the obvious-yet-ommitted accusation of defying mainstream academia, and lying about statistics. Info on all of the above can be found here. -Loppy Thug

Arthur Goldberg

There is tremendous depth into some of his credentials, but a curious lack of some other, more important information; notably, his felony convictions (see the myriad of sources on his biographical page). -Loppy Thug