Talk:Earth

why a plus instead a cross as an symbol???

no body is complaining about the moon symbol thats its too islamic — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kasmanis (talk • contribs) 19:32, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

The plus is a standard symbol for the planet earth. see Astronomical symbols. Dauto (talk) 01:53, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

I believe the cross on top of the Earth is rarely if ever used now and so is considered archaic. By contrast, the cross inside the circle is widely used in astronomical literature. Both are valid symbols, but, as with words, we usually go with the more common usage. Regards, RJH (talk) 15:50, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Combining form?

Should the infobox (for all of the solar system bodies, not only Earth) have a line for the Combining form, namely geo- (and areo- for Mars, and so on)? I would have been bold and just added it, but it's too bold for me (especially if I went through all of the planets only to have it reverted). TomS TDotO (talk) 12:25, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Unlock the page you idiots

Tried to fix up the abominable grammar in the first paragraph. Unfortunately some wikiwally has locked the page. The Big Bad Astronomer (talk) 05:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

You might consider using the {{editsemiprotected}} tag, specifying exactly what changes you want to make. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 06:18, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

The title you selected for this section is decidedly uncivil. Ergo, I'm puzzled as to why you are expecting editors to put any weight in your opinion. See WP:Civility for details on expected behavior. RJH (talk) 16:06, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

FWIW, I went ahead and proofread/copyedited the lede. Only 1 sentence seemed grammatically questionable. --Cybercobra (talk) 04:51, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

All ice is fresh water?

About 2/3 of fresh water is ice. But is on the opposite all ice saltfree?

There is Methanhydrat in the deepest sea. Solid, water-rich, but no ice, I would say.

In Antarctica I think there is at least one salt-water-lake on or in (fresh, saltfree) glacier ice.

Marine salt-water is sprayed over near glacier ice regions, up to what concentration does salt accumulate there?

Is water from molten ice "fresh water" in that sense, that it is safe for drinking? (Without cooking or otherwise refining.) --Helium4 (talk) 08:58, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

The freezing point of saltwater is lower than the freezing point for freshwater. For saltwater that is saturated (23.3% salt by mass), the freezing point is −21.1 C. On Earth, it's much easier for nature to produce and maintain salt-free ice. Regards, RJH (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Just a suggestion

In the beginning, I feel as though "life is known to exist by humanity" would be more appropriate.

Let's not be absolute here and make decisions for our very so likely existent extra-terrestrial friends.

68.109.177.182 (talk) 13:17, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

This is covered by the FAQ at the top of the page. Regards, RJH (talk) 14:32, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Earth as smooth as a billiard ball?

The section of the article taking about the Earth having a smaller tolerance in terms of diameter variation may be misleading. Here is an updated link to the World Pool-Billiard Association rules http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/WPA_Tournament_Table_Equipment_Specifications, and they say that "All balls must be composed of cast phenolic resin plastic and measure 2 ¼ (+.005) inches [5.715 cm (+ .127 mm)] in diameter and weigh 5 ½ to 6 oz [156 to 170 gms]". This seems to be saying that billiard balls must have a diameter between 5.588cm and 5.842cm, but it doesn't seem to say anything about how smooth they must be, or how pitted they are allowed to be. Thus it seems that the comparison to the relative size of Mount Everest and the Mariana Trench is misleading. I have found two other sites that make similar arguments: http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question121443.html and http://possiblywrong.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/is-the-earth-like-a-billiard-ball-or-not/. Does anyone know of a more appropriate comparison that could be used to illustrate how relatively smooth the earth is? Fods12 00:42, 26 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fods12 (talk • contribs)

Another possibility would be to compare the roughness of the Earth to the maximum tolerated surface roughness for an appropriate grade of ball bearing. This is more concisely known because of the widespread use of ball bearings. Regards, RJH (talk) 15:08, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Earth Trojan

2010 TK7 has been confirmed as an earth trojan asteroid. This needs to be included into this article in order for it to maintain its FA status (all other planet pages contain info on the number of trojan asteroids they possess).XavierGreen (talk) 18:51, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Your statement is untrue. RJH (talk) 19:24, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean its untrue?!?!? the trojan exists, and Neptune, Jupiter, and Mars all have links to information about their trojans within the text of their articles.XavierGreen (talk) 20:45, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

You said all other planets: Mercury and Venus do not have this information, even if the information is negative. Ergo, it is a false statement. I also question whether the lack of this information causes the article to fail WP:FACR. The current article does not mention near-earth asteroids, for example. Only co-orbital bodies are discussed.

That being said, WP:BOLD still applies. You can always add it in yourself, rather than making threats in order to encourage somebody else to do it. RJH (talk) 21:33, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

 Done - Added New Section Earth#Trojan_Asteroid And Related Text And References As Follows:

==Trojan Asteroid==

See also: Trojan asteroid

On 27 July 2011, astronomers reported a trojan asteroid companion, 2010 TK7, librating around the leading Lagrange triangular point, L4, of Earth in Earth's orbit around the sun.

If Interested, Please Feel Free To Edit, Modify and/or Expand With New Material - In Any Case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 00:46, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Earth is the only place in the universe where life is known to exist.

This makes a claim for the whole universe, and therefore is almost certainly wrong. We (humanity) have 1 data point for planets supporting life so far (Earth) and cannot assume life else where including intelligent life. Neither can we assume the opposite. My point is if there is intelligent life out there I am pretty sure they would know if they existed or not. To me it reaks of dandyism to worry about active/passive voice over logical validity. In most cases when talking about knowledge we can assume 'human knowledge' but not when making a statement concerning the entire universe and everything in it. SkyMachine (talk) 03:24, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

What is wrong with 'we' here if it solves this error of logic in a succint non-pretentious way? 'Scientists' would be wrong as life on Earth is a pre-scientific fact (known by everyone with the cognitive ability to know, therefore 'we'), 'humanity' is awkward but correct. The statement could be changed to "Earth is the only place so far examined that contains definitive evidence for life.", if you wish to keep your pretentious passive voice. SkyMachine (talk) 05:21, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

The use of "we" is especially well chosen here, because it makes the subjective nature of the claim explicit and it is in accordance with both exceptions stated in the WP:MOS:

Also avoid we, us, and our. ... But these forms are acceptable in certain figurative uses. For example:

• In historical articles to mean the modern world as a whole. ...
• The author's we found in scientific writing

−Woodstone (talk) 06:22, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

See the FAQ. The current wording represents a consensus view over many, many discussions. You're not bringing up anything new. If you want to change it, then you should gain a consensus. At present I'm opposed to the change. The current form does the job.

With regard to the use of "we", you're doing so with the clear purpose of introducing the concept of a "they". This is covered by the FAQ. Thank you. Regards, RJH (talk) 14:43, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

That being said, perhaps an alternative approach is to add a brief, informational footnote to the sentence under discussion. Something like: "For a perspective on the possibility of life existing elsewhere, see extraterrestrial life." This would avoid the need for the Earth article to address an off-topic matter, while scratching an itch some editors seem to have to promote the idea. Would that satisfy the need? Regards, RJH (talk) 21:21, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

That being said if this is a consensus view that continues to irk so many people that there has to be a FAQ response to it, good job to the cabal that arrived at that consensus.SkyMachine (talk) 23:01, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

There are two sides to this story. The viewpoint of your "cabal" also "irks" enough people that a consensus was needed. While we're at it, see WP:CIVIL. RJH (talk) 14:26, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

A compromise position would be worth some thing to me. Just calling for a bit of Richard Dawkins style consciousness raising and making sure assumptions are explicitly noted as such.SkyMachine (talk) 22:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

From reading WP:SPECULATION, this seems to be geared toward articles as a whole or major article content. I don't think leaving openings for highly probable possiblities (ie not completely excluding) in a single sentance covering everything in existance is the intended scope of this guideline. Also if some one can point me to the guideline that says wikipedia is a source of human knowledge solely intended for human consumption, that would be good.SkyMachine (talk) 01:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I think the whole sentence should be removed. It's a pointless assertion; just because humans have not discovered life elsewhere in the universe doesn't mean there isn't any, so why mention this at all? Let's leave that in the extraterrestrial life article. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 02:34, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree with removing the entire sentence. This is a very subtle form of POV pushing that assumes that there is something special about the Earth and promotes the Rare Earth hypothesis by failing to postulate that the principle of mediocrity should be the starting point. I've tried to talk with RJHall about this before, but it is his way or the highway. Viriditas (talk) 03:22, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I support removing the whole sentence. As it is, it is a rather sweeping unproven statement about the universe, not a fact about Earth, and a such does not belong in the article. −Woodstone (talk) 06:07, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Good point, the statement is a commentary on the universe, not Earth, so it doesn't even belong in the opening paragraphs. I think the fact that this sentence is so often contested and discussion about it is so frequently resurrected is reason enough to rid of it. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 06:15, 6 August 2011 (UTC)