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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ron Halls (talk | contribs) at 16:39, 19 August 2011 (General note: Nonconstructive editing on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_available_under_a_Creative_Commons_License#The_Beatles_creativity. (TW)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Hello, welcome to my talk page!

If you want to leave a message, please do it at the bottom, as a new section, for better formatting. You can do that by simply pressing the plus sign (+) or "new section" on the top of this page. And don't forget to sign your messages with four tildes, like this: ~~~~

Attention: I prefer to keep discussions unfragmented. If you leave a comment for me here, I will most likely respond to it on this same page—my talk page—as an effort to keep the entire conversation in one place. By the same token, if I leave a comment on your talk page, please respond to it there. Remember, we can use our watchlist to keep track of when responses are made. At the same time, feel free to send an alert to me on this page about a comment you have left elsewhere.

Thank you!

And you can't hide behind wp:linkspam as an excuse. You leave all sorts of other links to white papers (that are useful) from other companies, yet you target Analog Devices exclusively. Are you working for Crystal Semi or some other competitor?

The fig leaf of wiki-lawyering does not cover up your obvious POV in deleting references that are relevant and practical that happen to come from a commercial source. Have you even bothered to look at the white paper that the link points to? 71.169.189.170 (talk) 20:08, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If there are other inappropriate links, that would be a reason for you to remove those, not to add more inappropriate links. - MrOllie (talk) 20:09, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing inappropriate about the link and if you were 1/2 of an electrical engineer, you would know that. You haven't answered a single question asked of you. You're just covering up your ignorance. 71.169.189.170 (talk) 20:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So which is it? I work for Crystal Semi, or I'm not ' 1/2 of an electrical engineer'? - MrOllie (talk) 20:14, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Could be both, but what is obvious is you have something against ADI and you have no idea of technical merit. 71.169.189.170 (talk) 20:17, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Crystal Semi probably employs a few non-electrical engineers. —Ruud 20:24, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I thought they got bought out years ago. :) - MrOllie (talk) 20:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seems they did. —Ruud 20:38, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is certainly a pattern of deleting appropriate links to technical information, judging by this page. Silverstarseven (talk) 11:38, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's not unusual for people to react strongly when their links are removed. I'm curious: what prompted you to break a 10 month absence to comment on this? - MrOllie (talk) 12:01, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You are not an honest player, Ollie. this is appropriate technical information that is relevant to the content of the article. 70.109.188.195 (talk) 13:56, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Decision making software article

Hi MrOllie. As we have been chatting about at Talk:Decision_making_software, what should be done about the list of software at the decision making software article? Paulwizard (talk) 20:40, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I said on the talk page already, barring some evidence of notability (indiscriminate surveys don't really help) it seems best to leave them out. - MrOllie (talk) 20:42, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Are citations or reports of the respective software's use in refereed journal articles sufficient to establish notability? (As revealed, for example, via Google Scholar.)Paulwizard (talk) 03:45, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Possibly? It depends on if they are trivial mentions and how independent of the software the journal authors are. - MrOllie (talk) 04:04, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Naturally. So, how many non-trivial, independent journal articles that cite or report work done using the respective softwares are required to establish notability? Supposing that some of the softwares on the list that you removed pass this test, then would you like to see these articles (presumably a subset?) referenced in the Wikip article (decision making software) in order for the list (after deleting softwares that do not pass the test) to be reinstated? (It seems to me that such referencing risks cluttering the Wikip article - but your call.) Paulwizard (talk) 05:52, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rather than talk in hypotheticals here, if you have independent sources, post them on Talk:Decision_making_software. - MrOllie (talk) 21:30, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I was wondering about the PROD. I removed the tag for now, but please feel free to reinstate it if you still feel it's proper. As I'm sure you've read, IllusionMage is a scam selling free software for a price. I'm sure you also agree that the software in question, Blender is notable. I just came across a discussion on Facebook where someone asked what Illusionmage is and whether it's worth buying. I pointed them to the WP page (that's how I discovered it was PROD'ed).

My point is that some users may look up Illusionmage to check up what kind of software it is (as I do regularly with software I consider buying), and find the information given now. This probably leads them to not wasting any money on this scam, and so Wikipedia has fulfilled its mission to educate people (and make their lives a tiny bit better in the process.) Asav (talk) 13:47, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's all well and good, but it has no third party reliable sources. If it doesn't get some, it will almost certainly be deleted sooner or later. - MrOllie (talk) 13:50, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I already added an article from BlenderNation, but obviously this is not something you'll find outside the trade press, as in mainstream news outlets or peer-reviewed publications. Asav (talk) 14:01, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Image at Frozen section procedure

Pathology Innovations created the image you have on this page. Why wouldn't you site it appropriately? Please look at pathologyinnovations.com and all of the educational content on there (that you are missing here) before removing more links. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Epeters1 (talkcontribs)

That's not what the uploader of the image claimed. He said it was his own work and was published under CC-By-3.0, which means the attribution we already have on the image's description page is sufficient. If that user was actually uploading something in violation of your copyright, please email info-en-c@wikimedia.org explaining the situation and someone will help you get the image removed. - MrOllie (talk) 20:18, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

They have a picture of a cryostat with part of a Precision Cryoembedding System (the chuck), which is a product of Pathology Innovations - this will not make sense to anyone trying to learn about frozen section unless they are aware of Pathology Innovations' systems. I don't know why or how I have to convince you that Pathology Innovations is a thought leader in this field... If you let me, I could put a ton of valuable information on this page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.20.173 (talk) 12:06, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You don't have to convince me or anyone else of that. What you do have to do, though, is refrain from promoting your products and/or books on Wikipedia. It would be great if you added valuable information to the page. As a subject matter expert, it should be a simple matter for you to cite information to reliable sources which are independent of yourself and your company. - MrOllie (talk) 14:46, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

TURF Insight

Dear Mr Ollie,

This article is written to explain about the new paradigms in Information Retrieval, Natural Language Processing, Enterprise Search Technologies, Personalized Knowledge Discovery and Semantic Search that are introduced by Xurmo Labs through TURF Insight.

TURF Insight, more than a product, is an open platform on which thousands of developers are being encouraged to develop applications that are powered by the information retrieval APIs that TURF exposes.

Similar articles about other companies in the same space, with sometimes no notable presence at all, are being encouraged on wikipedia. Hence it would be a bias if this page is deleted.

```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandeep999 (talkcontribs) 16:03, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Even this talk page message sounds promotional. - MrOllie (talk) 16:19, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mr Ollie,

It is quite easy to be unfair here. I do not think the objective is to be unfair. It is about equality and fairness in terms of representation of information. When it is quite clear that all major search providers have a place on wiki, with more than enough promotional content on their pages, it would be inherently unfair if the reader is not given the opportunity to know that there is another option as well. Let us not take an elitist approach here. That is not why we all have donated our hard earned dollars to the wikimedia foundation.

Let me take an example here. Let us see the page of Autonomy Corporation. If what I have written is promotional, surely the Products section on this page is as promotional if not more. It is an endless discussion. My intention is to have a productive conversation. I have already removed a whole lot of actually useful information on how the technology works and accomplishes what it does, lest it might be considered as "promotional". I am prepared to do even more. Just point out your objections.

But I am not prepared allow a firm to be excluded from a place where every one of its peers has one. I hope you understand. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandeep999 (talkcontribs) 16:57, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:OTHERSTUFF. If there is other advertising on Wikipedia, that means we should remove that advertising, not add more. I would also suggest that you read the guideline on conflicts of interest. - MrOllie (talk) 16:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have already pointed you out to one. Please do go ahead and remove it too. I have removed all content which might be considered as promotional from the page. The COI does not apply to me as I am an academic who was so enthralled by what they have done that I thought they deserved a place here, when I found that I could not learn more about them from wikipedia. All the information I have posted here is the information I collected when I made a direct site visit of their office with my students. It cannot get better than that. I am no armchair critic or promoter. I verify and see my facts for myself. Sandeep999 (talk) 17:12, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of verifying facts: You do realize that Wikipedia retains past versions of a page, right? - MrOllie (talk) 17:21, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I certainly have enough moral authority here. You just removed my entire piece without a comment. The revision history aspect is applicable to you too. Play fair Ollie. That is all that is requested. I think the others participating on these pages have the same opinion as well. Sandeep999 (talk) 17:26, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I assure you I didn't blank anything on purpose: The Wiki software does that once in a while when people edit at the same time. - MrOllie (talk) 17:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Incoterms

Hi Mr Ollie. Let's discuss about Incoterms page. As I mentioned I spent personal money and hours to make the information that costs normally 75 euro plus shippping available for free at wikipedia. Don't you think that I have a right to put a link on my web site in exchange for that? Also, it was not necessary to kill separate pages for 11 terms. They contain incormation from offiical guide of International Chamber of Commerce. Also note, that the rating of all articles was high and people found the information valuable. Thanks for reconsidering your decision and reverting my chnages. I am not sure what is the right way to communicate here Igorch (talk) 18:34, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry to be blunt, but no, no amount of work you do or money you spend for Wikipedia will entitle you to link your website from here. The '11 pages' that you mention were all sourced only to your own website, which is not suitable to establish they they should have independent articles per our guidelines and sourcing requirements. - MrOllie (talk) 18:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, could you tell me which particular clauses of rules, guidelines and requirements did I violate. Let's leave emotions and discuss rules. If I violated rules, I won't do that again. I just want to aviod the misunderstanding. The material that I created on the internet (my site) and then on wikipedia is unique and relevant. I am not sure how far you are familiar with international tarde rules, but the link represented the only source, which is by the way free of charge for users who comes to the web site. Anyway, I look forward to receiving particular clauses that you think I violated. I hope we can resolve this situation to the benefit of Wikipedia readers who rely on the international trade related information. Thank you.Igorch (talk) 19:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The general notability guideline says that if there are not multiple, independent and reliable sources for a topic, we don't have an article on that topic. - MrOllie (talk) 19:20, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please provide the argumentation or evience that with respect to the Summary of terms table (see Incoterms) the source is not reliable. The source was Incoterms Wall Chart. For your information here is the feedback of international trade professionals on LinkedIn. Example. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Igorch (talkcontribs) 19:32, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's pretty clear if you read the reliable sources guideline. We need sources published by parties with a reputation for fact checking (such as newspapers or peer reviewed journals), not the self published websites of small consulting companies. - MrOllie (talk)
What is the evidence that our company has no such reputation?Igorch (talk) 19:38, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Does your company publish a newspaper? - MrOllie (talk) 19:40, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No. But it doesn't mean that there are no international trade professionals who can properly interpret international trade legislation. Let me stress again, the information is unique and very specific. This is not football club or academy award. Such materials will never be published by newspapers because there are no such newspapers for international trade professionals. Is there any other concern that I can address? Igorch (talk) 19:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If this information will never be published by anyone but you, that pretty much settles it. *multiple* sources are required to have an article. In the case of Incoterms, if we don't have a source that complies with the guidelines the answer is that we remove the information, not that we leave it there with a noncompliant source. One of our core policies forbids original research, which means that one person cannot simply come up with new information and put it on Wikipedia, it *must* be published by independent parties first. - MrOllie (talk) 19:51, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for link, now I clearly see the point. The rule is the rule. Please also delete Summary of Terms section of Incoterms because it is entirely based on my wall chart (you can trace it in history) and contradicts to the policy as well. Thank you.Igorch (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I deleted Summary of Terms myself as it contradicts to original researchIgorch (talk) 00:31, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Project management lay out

Hi MrOllie, could you take a look at the latest discussion on the project management talk page, and comment. User:Tony1 doesn't seem to agree on anything I say, for example my first and latest statement:

  • Wikipedia is an interactive medium, and figures can be read by clicking on them
  • With lay-out we should look at FA as example

Now I know lay-out design is no exact science, but these are simple basics of Wikipedia article design. Could you comment on this. Thank you. -- Mdd (talk) 20:21, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

August 2011

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_available_under_a_Creative_Commons_License#The_Beatles_creativity, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Stop ! Ron Halls (talk) 16:39, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]